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Subject: New rules about Objects (What happens with Secret Bags?) rss

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D. Barrera
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The english rules state:

"The new objects are shuffled with the base game's Object cards and are then placed facedown in reach of all players.

At the beginning of the game, each player draws 2 Object cards."

My question is, what happens with the Secret Bag cards? In the original game you make sure the 2 Secret Bags are in somebody's hand (1 card hand instead of 2, so 2 people have a Secret Bag).

Am I missing something? Any help is welcome .
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I don't have the rules with me right now, but the couple of times we played, we randomly took number of players * 2 cards minus 2, and added the bags, althou I was the one preparing the rules, I didn't even consider there was a change in this aspect My bad!

Anyways, won't change it, the game played smoothly without problems.
 
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D. Barrera
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This seems the sensible thing to do indeed although the rules omit it. Thanks for your advise.
 
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Daniele Silvi

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So, what we have to do? 2 separate distribution of cards?
 
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leles wrote:
So, what we have to do? 2 separate distribution of cards?


? No no, you simply have to distribute 2 cards to each player, making sure that two of those cards are the bags.

For example, if you have 6 players, take 10 cards from the items deck, add the two bags, shuffle it all together and give each player 2 cards, simple as that
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Daniele Silvi

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Yes, i see but what if a player gets two bags? Isn't too much powerful? Isn't better to deal a first hand of One card to each One, as the base game and then a second hand? In this way we are sure that can't be a player with 2 secret bags...
 
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Yeah I guess you could do that, but considering the new events that give away objects without much hesitation, I don't think it's even worth the hassle of doing two dealings.

And two bags is by far not as powerful as you might think, I could come up with quite some combos that are much more OP

Anyways, go ahead, do as you please; two dealings forcing the bags in different hands would definitly be in the spirit of the base game.
 
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S. R.
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I would even consider it doing this way:

Distribute cards as usual (in the base game). Then prepare game deck as usual, and then each player gets another card from this deck.
Why?

Because, already in an 8-player game, all starting cards would be distributed. In a 9 or 10 player game, 2 or 4 players would not get a second starting item.
 
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Anthony Rubbo
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Would love to know the official ruling. Both English and German rule text makes it sound (to me) that you just shuffle everything and deal 2; which could now potentially work, since there is inflow of cards via the Coachman action.

However, I'm concerned if the bags are at the bottom of the deck, and Event deck runs out quickly (eliminating the Coachman), that things could stall.
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S. R.
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Anthony, don't know about the English rules, but the German rules (of the base game) distinctly tell you otherwise:
"Take all the item cards with the seal (except the bags), shuffle them, deal (players-2) cards, shuffle them with the bags, and distribute them among the players. Shuffle the rest of the seal cards with the other item cards and place the deck on the table."

The expansion just bluntly states:
"Deal two cards to each player".

...I'm paraphrasing, of course...

The problem is, that it is not specified where these cards come from. Of course, it is expanding the basic rule, but for that to work there are at least 4 seal item cards less than needed...

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Anthony Rubbo
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No, the expansion doesn't just say "Deal two cards to each player."

It says "Die neuen Gegenstaenden werden mit allen Gegenstaenden des Grundspiels gemischt und als verdeckter Stapel bereitgelegt. Zu Spielbeginn zieht sich jeder Spieler 2 Gegenstaende."

This implies (to me), a strong chance that the authors intended for this to replace the normal Base Game preparation.
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S. R.
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Yes, you are absolutely right.
However, it collides with the sentence that all of the base game's rules are still in effect. Which seems to me that (because it is vital) the rule with the bags and the seal items SHOULD be in effect still.

But you are right, this is contradictory.
Also, as has been pointed out, if the bags are not among the first items distributed, then the game can stagnate...
 
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Meh, I like it having the bags in players hands from the start on, they add a card following mechanism where players try to keep track of where each bag is going, and a bag on the bottom of the deck certainly would have limited play value for the one drawing it, they are half victory object / half card drawing object for a reason.
 
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Anthony Rubbo
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Dumon wrote:
Yes, you are absolutely right.
However, it collides with the sentence that all of the base game's rules are still in effect. Which seems to me that (because it is vital) the rule with the bags and the seal items SHOULD be in effect still.


Except that this part is listed specifically in the section covering Base Game rules alterations
 
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S. R.
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Damn.
Why do I write anything, like at all?
You are right, anyways...
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Anthony Rubbo
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I've been chatting with the Designers, here is the setup:

1. The two bags are taken from the objects.

2. ALL other cards (regardless of seals) are shuffled and two cards less than the number of players x 2 are counted face-down. e.g. with 6 players you take 10 cards.

3.These cards and the two bags are shuffled. Each player receives
two of them face-down and takes them on his hand as his traveling luggage.

4. The rest of the objects are placed faced down as a draw pile.

---

From my conversations with them, I gathered that the rules in the base game about dealing out ONLY seal cards into the starting hands (and adding the non-seal cards to the pile after dealing) was not actually their intent. Essentially, the intent is that if you are playing with all of the cards, completely ignore the existence of the seals, and just make sure 2 Bags are in the starting hands.
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S. R.
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That DOES make sense, and is (of course) much easier.
It also makes sense, because it means that the Keys and Goblets don't have to be all in play from the start...
 
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Arno van der Kwast
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LemonyFresh wrote:
I've been chatting with the Designers, here is the setup:

1. ...

And should we make sure one player cannot start with BOTH travelling bags?
Or when that happens, just start playing?
 
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Juan F T
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Maximum number of objects also changed:
Rules show up to 6 players (6 objects each max).

What about 7+ players?
 
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