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Subject: PBF #6: Very Serious Discussion rss

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Robb Minneman
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Jackasses? You let a whole column get stalled and strafed on account of a couple of jackasses? What the hell's the matter with you?
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We've got heckling/discussion threads for the other PBF games, so I figure I'll add one for #6 as well. 'Cuz I love to table-talk in games.

Thanks, NASA, for the generous donation. I appreciate that.
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Stephen Woll
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sure thing! Glad to do it to be honest.

This should be a lot of fun, glad this is happening.
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Pete Martyn
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I am positively ravaged by jealousy at the sight of those tantalizing new names. So exciting!
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Francisco Colmenares
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Actually I have a "very serious" topic to bring up. I've gone back and forth with Phil on the Magnetocaloric Refrigerator. He's going to redesign the card so it's no use testing it in its current form. I propose we remove it from play and award NASA with the next Radiator from the deck.
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Erich Schneider
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Two comments from the peanut gallery:

- One advantage of having a heavy radiator vs. a light radiator, number of therms of cooling provided aside, is that if radiation fries your heavy radiator, you still have a radiator in the stack. (As F-15 pilots like to say to F-16 pilots, "it's better to lose an engine than the engine".) However, I see the Fridge's rad-hardness is 6, so that's probably irrelevant as things stand.

- Phil's ruling about the ESA is his ruling, but I have thought that limiting the thrust-boost ability to stacks that have a solar modifier to thrust was reasonable. I guess now the rule is that the ESA can cancel thrust minuses for Mars orbit and beyond?
 
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Francisco Colmenares
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RE: Fridge. Perhaps the redesign will make the Fridge less rad-hardy. Not sure. I think the concept of lowering therm requirements is intriguing and certainly innovative, but a refrigerator should never be able to reduce cooling to zero because refrigerators can only cool parts of systems never the whole system. I'm starting to think stack cooling is the way to go, but that therm cooling requirements can never be reduced below 1 (unless it was 0 to begin with).

ESA Power: The thing about the thrust boosting in Colonization is it can dramatically increase the power of GW and TW thrusters to absolutely ridiculous levels because of the multiplier effect. It's almost Dr. Evil in its power (I have a Giant Laser on the Moon, built by the noted Cambridge Physicist Dr. Parsons...)

Also other powers can acquire the ESA abiltity by building the right factory at Venus, IO or Mercury. Though I think it's very hard to do that with white cards only (in fact Venus it's impossible because you need an ISRU 0).
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Erich Schneider
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Or by using the Atmospheric Lasing refinery to indsturialize Mars, Saturn, or Titan (and presumably Uranus)...
 
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Francisco Colmenares
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Good point. I'll bring it up with Phil. If he dislikes the ESA abiltity, the Atmospheric Lasing Refinery may need to behave similarly (Archimedes Sun Factory), that does make building a push factory easier I guess...
 
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Robb Minneman
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Jackasses? You let a whole column get stalled and strafed on account of a couple of jackasses? What the hell's the matter with you?
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Three things to discuss with our friendly game designer:

(1) The change to the pricing for a free market operation is a significant adjustment to the game, and it calls into question all of my tech evaluations. I may have made a (minor) bidding mistake on this most recent auction by not taking into account the current free market price of tech. It's a Big Deal(TM).

(2) Who breaks ties on election auctions? If it's always player #5 (or #1), that's a significant advantage for that player. Could this possibly be settled as a faction advantage? (Particularly if you're thinking of nerfing the ESA advantage.)

(3) If we get a Glitch event, who does it affect? Only the most recent player? That would mean it always hits player #5. Or does every eligible player get glitched?
 
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Francisco Colmenares
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robbbbbb wrote:
(1) The change to the pricing for a free market operation is a significant adjustment to the game, and it calls into question all of my tech evaluations. I may have made a (minor) bidding mistake on this most recent auction by not taking into account the current free market price of tech. It's a Big Deal(TM).

I noticed. Once you went 3 WT for me it was over, going to 3 WT meant I would only break even, why even bother at that point (Unless of course there was some specific tech you wanted to keep)

robbbbbb wrote:
(2) Who breaks ties on election auctions? If it's always player #5 (or #1), that's a significant advantage for that player. Could this possibly be settled as a faction advantage? (Particularly if you're thinking of nerfing the ESA advantage.)

According to the rules it's the person in Power, that's the UN right now. If no one is in power ties are paid to the bank and the polticial marker doesn't move.

robbbbbb wrote:
(3) If we get a Glitch event, who does it affect? Only the most recent player? That would mean it always hits player #5. Or does every eligible player get glitched?

I'll bring it up. I would wager everyone gets glitched (similar to pad explosion). Maybe this event needs to be modified.
 
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Stephen Woll
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This seems to indicate for #3 that EACH player is "glitched". This is just the vassal module I'm going off of, but could be there for a reason.
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Matthew Eklund
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In our playtest yesterday... there was a much larger threat of glitch and pad explosion due to the new sunspot cycle and all-player glitch effects.

It may need to be toned down.

more to come
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Stephen Woll
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Actually I was thinking about this in regards to pad-explosion, earlier. You have maximum 1 turn after a boost action to take off, or your stack in LEO is in danger of getting blown up. (yes it's just 1 card, but still the heaviest!)

So either you wait for the correct WT amount to boost year after event, and fuel up/take off the year following, which of course, means unless you are Shimizu, a rocket of no more than 4 cards, or hope that a 4 isn't rolled in 2-3 years.

Basically the "early game" events are a different twist which feels nice, but can be VERY bad. Especially with after the first event, two in a row (years 3, 5 I think) are BOTH a 1/3 chance of Budget Cuts!! OUCH! - Really just putting thoughts down, since we aren't there yet with THIS game, but may need to be addressed.
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Francisco Colmenares
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Toning down could be done at one per 3 instead of 1 per 2. With 12 sunspot cycles we have 6 events per solar cycle, if that's too much it can be down to 4 per solar cycle. The only problem with that idea is that one specific color is going to happen more frequently than others, but maybe that's not a bad thing if it's the blue one (elections are more fun anyway!)
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Robb Minneman
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Jackasses? You let a whole column get stalled and strafed on account of a couple of jackasses? What the hell's the matter with you?
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So, not something that's particularly related to this game, but useful in general for High Frontier players: the notions of ZOPA (the Zone Of Possible Agreement) and BATNA (Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement.)

You can read more about ZOPA here, and it links to stuff on BATNA.
 
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Francisco Colmenares
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It's Frozen because it was supposed to be a playtest for Colonization.
 
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