$10.00
Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
57 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

On Board Games» Forums » News

Subject: OBG 96: We Salute Games rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ray Greenley
United States
Harleysville
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Greetings Commander
mbmbmbmbmb
arkayn wrote:
RMGreen wrote:
Should I spend extra time and money to support a store that doesn't seem all that interested in catering to my interests?

What do you think?


No.

If the store sucks, then it's their own fault. The one thing I think is reasonable though, is that when you get a game for $35 that retails for $50, and you get free shipping on top of that - appreciate that you got a good deal. If there's a game that costs $50 and you actually have to pay the price of the game, and oh... if the game isn't where you are, you have to pay to make it get to you... well, if you really want the game, then apply your savings from the other game toward this game. If you don't really want it, then don't bitch and moan and say that the publisher is evil and stupid. You don't know their business operations and costs, or what margin they can afford to give away on their products.

I'm not saying you do that, but that seems to be the general direction of the "I hate Game Salute" threads.

That's generally how I feel. However in this case, I don't think the store 'sucks' as a whole, just that it really doesn't cater to me. I WANT to support them, but it seems like it would require more effort from me than I really want to put forth.

arkayn wrote:
RMGreen wrote:
I'd also suggest that the online stores do offer something to publishers: higher margin. That may not entirely be worth what they lose in the other services granted by physical stores, but that's kinda up to the publisher.


I do not believe that's true. I think that if a publisher/distributor sold to online retailers at a higher price than a brick-and-mortar, it would be considered price discrimination. I think the only real way around getting less value for the same margin is to not allow online sales of your product.

Perhaps I'm using the wrong term. When I say 'margin' I mean the percentage they get based on the final sale price. So for example, if a publisher gets $25 wholesale for a game that has an SRP of $75, they would normally be getting 33%. If an online store then sells it for $50, they would get 50% on that sale. Sure 1-for-1 that's the same dollar value, but if you assume that a lower retail price will lead to more games sold, it should work out pretty well for the publisher. I'm sure any publisher would normally be thrilled if they could get 50% of each retail sale rather than the usual ~40%.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Feldmann
United States
Dayton
Ohio
flag msg tools
Moving my blog to sofrankly.com!
mbmbmbmbmb
I was really hesitant to post this, since this seems to primarily a OBG 09 love fest, and I am bringing the ants to the picnic. I don't want to call everyone out and start a flame war, but I respectfully disagree that this was such a wonderful episode. Essentially, it was an hour and 55 minutes of a guest's monologue and five minutes of the hosts. I wasn't convinced; I was beaten into submission. In the end, that didn't work, and I am still not convinced that this "not online" policy will actually influence the market. Given that Game Salute does allow itself to sell online, it even seems a little disingenuous. Additionally, both Carnival and Puzzle Strike are available through Amazon. Granted, the sale is actually through the publisher or Game Salute, but what is the perception there?

Honestly, I also don't understand how discounting devalues a brand of games. I understand that a product's value can be a matter of perception, into which price plays a role. Herbal Essence isn't really that much different from Suave, but the price point gives the illusion of value. However, I don't see Game Salute as benefiting from this effect for two reasons. First of all, I haven't heard people raving over GS and justifying a premium price in the same manner that people will let Days of Wonder or Fantasy Flight off the hook for their production. I guess I am saying that discounting may devalue a Cadillac, but it won't devalue a Chevy. Game Salute has not demonstrated that it is a premium company, at least in my mind. Secondly, perceived value is relative to the market, and if OnlineGameDiscounters.com is discounting everything 30% under a brick and mortar, all brands still hold their relative value. I am not trying to value games against my car, after all, or even against other forms of entertainment.

Additionally, by limiting the outlets that can sell a game, isn't GS doing a disservice to the designer? As a designer, I would want my games sold as much as possible, even at a reduced margin if necessary. I could make up for some of that in volume. Furthermore, as a new designer, I would want my games played as much as possible, so that my personal branding as a designer is served. I can then make more money on future designs.

Just my two cents, but I thought I would provide the opposing view. I have bought, and will buy, Game Salute games. I like their components, and understand that they do a lot for the independent designer. I have no dog in this fight. I still will buy VivaJava one of these days (and I would pay an extra ten bucks to have it come in a coffee can - just sayin'!). How Game Salute does business is ultimately Dan's decision, and I respect that.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donald Dennis
United States
Pawleys Island
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
feldmafx wrote:
I was really hesitant to post this, since this seems to primarily a OBG 09 love fest, and I am bringing the ants to the picnic. I don't want to call everyone out and start a flame war, but I respectfully disagree that this was such a wonderful episode. Essentially, it was an hour and 55 minutes of a guest's monologue and five minutes of the hosts. ...


Worthy concerns. Dan had a lot to say, and for us it was more of a fact-finding mission than us speaking from a place of authority. We try not to edit down our guests that much.


feldmafx wrote:
I wasn't convinced; I was beaten into submission. In the end, that didn't work, and I am still not convinced that this "not online" policy will actually influence the market. Given that Game Salute does allow itself to sell online, it even seems a little disingenuous. Additionally, both Carnival and Puzzle Strike are available through Amazon. Granted, the sale is actually through the publisher or Game Salute, but what is the perception there?
The perception is that the online sales are not competing via price. This matters a lot because online sales won't be stealing sales from a B&M sales location due to reduced price. For that matter online discounters won't be reducing the perceived value of the sale.

Ultimately, while I like and understand what Game Salute is intending, I think they may be fighting a losing rear-guard action against overwhelming odds. Too many companies are allowing slash-and-burn pricing to impact their product lines. Any attempt to establish an industry-wide behavior now might even be illegal, I don't know.



feldmafx wrote:
Additionally, by limiting the outlets that can sell a game, isn't GS doing a disservice to the designer?
Perhaps, but I would bet that the overall effect is providing more opportunity instead of reducing it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Feldmann
United States
Dayton
Ohio
flag msg tools
Moving my blog to sofrankly.com!
mbmbmbmbmb
Walsfeo wrote:
Ultimately, while I like and understand what Game Salute is intending, I think they may be fighting a losing rear-guard action against overwhelming odds. Too many companies are allowing slash-and-burn pricing to impact their product lines. Any attempt to establish an industry-wide behavior now might even be illegal, I don't know.


I agree. Online stores have too much momentum to change things much. It will be harder to run a B&M store successfully. I personally think it may come down to the same situation as the video game market, in which Game Stop and a few other hybrid behemoths have enough weight to hold their own. That would require a B&M/Online hybrid to surface in the boardgaming world, which hasn't happened yet.

Walsfeo wrote:
feldmafx wrote:
Additionally, by limiting the outlets that can sell a game, isn't GS doing a disservice to the designer?
Perhaps, but I would bet that the overall effect is providing more opportunity instead of reducing it.

In terms of the total package, including production and the B&M distribution, I have no doubt. However, the gaming stores in my area (Dayton, OH) aren't carrying many GS games, so their visibility and availability in my area is practically nil.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Feldmann
United States
Dayton
Ohio
flag msg tools
Moving my blog to sofrankly.com!
mbmbmbmbmb
I forgot to comment on this, oops!

Walsfeo wrote:
feldmafx wrote:
...both Carnival and Puzzle Strike are available through Amazon. Granted, the sale is actually through the publisher or Game Salute, but what is the perception there?
The perception is that the online sales are not competing via price. This matters a lot because online sales won't be stealing sales from a B&M sales location due to reduced price. For that matter online discounters won't be reducing the perceived value of the sale.


True. Amazon's competitive advantage isn't necessarily price; it's convenience and availability. If I am looking for a specific game I can hunt it down and buy it more easily from Amazon than calling the four B&M stores in my area, knowing that the one most likely to carry it is on the other side of town 30 minutes away. (And I rarely browse or impulse buy. Instead, I carefully research games to determine the exact game I will purchase next. This seems like it would be common Geek behavior.) I doubt the B&M owner really cares how they are getting beat. Be it price or otherwise, they aren't getting the sale.

It sounds as though the biggest argument is the "devaluation argument", which, as I said before, I haven't really accepted.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donald Dennis
United States
Pawleys Island
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
feldmafx wrote:
I forgot to comment on this, oops!

Walsfeo wrote:
feldmafx wrote:
...both Carnival and Puzzle Strike are available through Amazon. Granted, the sale is actually through the publisher or Game Salute, but what is the perception there?
The perception is that the online sales are not competing via price. This matters a lot because online sales won't be stealing sales from a B&M sales location due to reduced price. For that matter online discounters won't be reducing the perceived value of the sale.


True. Amazon's competitive advantage isn't necessarily price; it's convenience and availability. If I am looking for a specific game I can hunt it down and buy it more easily from Amazon than calling the four B&M stores in my area, knowing that the one most likely to carry it is on the other side of town 30 minutes away. (And I rarely browse or impulse buy. Instead, I carefully research games to determine the exact game I will purchase next. This seems like it would be common Geek behavior.) I doubt the B&M owner really cares how they are getting beat. Be it price or otherwise, they aren't getting the sale.

It sounds as though the biggest argument is the "devaluation argument", which, as I said before, I haven't really accepted.


If you aren't going to go to a store and buy something from them, you aren't a customer, you are not invested in the local ecosystem. If I've discounted something to incite you to purchase it from me online instead of going out and getting it from the B&M store RIGHT NOW then I've stolen a customer. Yes the publisher might make a bit more money from a direct sale, but really, getting a store to carry games is a lot like getting them to pay you to advertise for you.

There is a huge benefit to that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Terry Bailey Sr.
United States
Jonesborough
Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't really want to bad mouth someone however. I listen to a lot of podcasts. I like a lot of podcasts. One such podcast is D6G. Now my feelings could very well be totally wrong but here goes. Everytime in the past that I have heard Mr. Yarrington on D6G I have had an odd feeling like the guy bugged me. I did not know what it was. The whole when you wish upon a game really creeped me out. I never really could put my finger on what bothered me. I felt guilty because I wanted to believe he was a nice man. He may very well be. Then I listened to the interview on On Board Games. Creepy factor went way way up. As I listened to what he had to say it dawned on me that this guy is trying to do price fixing. He wants to sell games to brick and mortar or through Game Salute or online retailers that will abide by his pricing. That in my mind is the basis for price fixing. Mr. Yarrington if you are really a nice man I appologize but what you are trying to do really bothers me. I live in a very very rural area. We just don't have the game shops you do. I have a comic book shop a distant town that has some of the gamery games and when he has one I want I buy it from him. However a lot of the games I want he simply wont have. I like that if I must order online I can save money because I must wait to get the game. A discount for waiting if you will. I also like that if one online retailer does not have the game I am looking for I have 12 more I can try. Forcing online stores to sell at brick and mortar prices as a consumer ticks me off. I will be very wary of Game Salute labeled games now. If I see a kickstarter with that name attached I will think long and hard before I ever back it.Simply because I don't want to promote your marketing idea. I salute you for wanting to make money. That is nobel.I however don't want to see the end of online retailers as we know them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Feldmann
United States
Dayton
Ohio
flag msg tools
Moving my blog to sofrankly.com!
mbmbmbmbmb
Walsfeo wrote:
If you aren't going to go to a store and buy something from them, you aren't a customer, you are not invested in the local ecosystem.

We are still talking about games here, right? My interest in the local ecosystem goes beyond the game store.

Walsfeo wrote:
If I've discounted something to incite you to purchase it from me online instead of going out and getting it from the B&M store RIGHT NOW then I've stolen a customer. Yes the publisher might make a bit more money from a direct sale, but really, getting a store to carry games is a lot like getting them to pay you to advertise for you.

There is a huge benefit to that.


Sorry if I wasn't clear. My point was that selling through Amazon (which doesn't necessarily discount) may steal as many customers as any other online store. Why does Game Salute allow that, but not other online stores? The only reason I can think of is the "devaluation argument", and I just don't think that argument carries.

I do see that a local B&M store is effectively advertising for you. But only if they are carrying your games. I think Alien Frontiers was out for 18 months before I saw it in a store.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donald Dennis
United States
Pawleys Island
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Skyjack wrote:
As I listened to what he had to say it dawned on me that this guy is trying to do price fixing.
I can't speak to the rest of what you say but price fixing is a very specific term with very specific meaning. That's not what he's trying to do. It's like people claiming free speech infringement when BGG polices for hate speech. Free speech has to do with the government cracking down on what people say and price fixing has to do with an industry wide setting of prices on goods like oil and FCOJ.

Two different things entirely. If he wanted all games to sell for $45, no matter what company they came from, that would be price fixing, and it would be illegal.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donald Dennis
United States
Pawleys Island
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
feldmafx wrote:
Walsfeo wrote:
If you aren't going to go to a store and buy something from them, you aren't a customer, you are not invested in the local ecosystem.

We are still talking about games here, right? My interest in the local ecosystem goes beyond the game store.


I can see that, but if the game is of less value to both consumers and vendors, the value of the game has dropped. And that impacts the ecosystem. Also, for local ecosystem in this case I was referring to the one surrounding the store, but yea, it goes beyond that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Terry Bailey Sr.
United States
Jonesborough
Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Donald I agree he may not be doing price fixing in the legal sense but he is trying to fix prices. In the normal world people buy in quantity and sell at a price to make a profit. He wants to prevent online stores from doing this. That upsets me because then as a consumer it takes away my chance to get games at a reduced price. Why would a consumer like that being done to them. Like the lady in Princess Bride says "Boo Boo Boo".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Feldmann
United States
Dayton
Ohio
flag msg tools
Moving my blog to sofrankly.com!
mbmbmbmbmb
Walsfeo wrote:
feldmafx wrote:
Walsfeo wrote:
If you aren't going to go to a store and buy something from them, you aren't a customer, you are not invested in the local ecosystem.

We are still talking about games here, right? My interest in the local ecosystem goes beyond the game store.


I can see that, but if the game is of less value to both consumers and vendors, the value of the game has dropped. And that impacts the ecosystem. Also, for local ecosystem in this case I was referring to the one surrounding the store, but yea, it goes beyond that.


Wouldn't economic theory say that the ecosystem at large becomes more efficient and healthier, though perhaps at the expense of the local ecosystem?

I am not advocating buying everything online. I am only saying that selling through Amazon is just as damaging to the local ecosystem as any other online store, yet Game Salute does this.

As for the value of games, well, as essentially a luxury item, one could argue that their value isn't intrinsic anyway, so the pricing is completely divorced from value.

I just strikes me that Game Salute has taken on this cause, which some see as noble, but seems quixotic. I have heard of literally no other producer/publisher/distributor that will not sell online because their product might lose value. Certainly FFG, DoW, Z-man, Columbia Games and many others don't feel this way.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Feldmann
United States
Dayton
Ohio
flag msg tools
Moving my blog to sofrankly.com!
mbmbmbmbmb
In fact, I will go one step further. Because games have no intrinsic value, and therefore price is divorced from value, the decision to sell through any particular outlet is purely a revenue/profitability decision. The pro-Game Salute faction (or anti-online store faction) may believe this is a decision based on principles, but it's not a moral question. Its a finance question, pure and simple.

(Therefore, in five years there will be data to prove who is right.)

If Mr. Yarrington changed his language from "devaluing" Game Salute games to "forcing Game Salute to lessen our profit per unit", I would be comfortable with the statement. In the long run, that may impact the overall business profitability, but it's too early to tell.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Danny Perello
Canada
Salmo
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Want DnDeeples? GeekMail me.
mbmbmbmbmb
feldmafx wrote:
I was really hesitant to post this, since this seems to primarily a OBG 09 love fest, and I am bringing the ants to the picnic. I don't want to call everyone out and start a flame war, but I respectfully disagree that this was such a wonderful episode.

I'm in the exact same boat. . I also took part in a few other threads where it didn't feel like any of the points I was trying to make were understood by anyone in the pro Game Salute camp. The Internet being what it is, well, I shouldn't have been surprised. Yet here I am again. Damned windmills...

My concerns with what Game Salute is trying to do and my reasons for those concerns are many and varied and I'm not going to try and cover them all here. I don't think Dan Yarrington is evil by any stretch of the imagination. I'm sure he's a lovely man who loves his wife and kids and genuinely wants to help and make the world a better place, but every time I hear the names Myriad Games and Game Salute I cringe ever so slightly. This is exasperated by their apparent ubiquitousness in the podcasting world. Be it the D6 Generation, The Secret Cabal Gaming Podcast, Dice Tower News or the now defunct Game On with Cody and John, just to name a few of the really excellent and entertaining podcasts I listen to, it seems harder and harder to find a show that isn't tainted (and I hesitate to use that word because someone is bound to overreact and jump all over the word and miss the point I'm trying to make, so if you find the word objectionable just relax for a second and know that I'm fully aware we are ultimately taking about games and none of this should be taken too seriously) with Myriad/GS propaganda. Anyway...

I also don't buy into the argument that online retailers devalue a brand. If I saw anything selling in an actual physical store for the same price as online I'd be shocked because the whole point of shopping online is so you can save money if you're willing to wait for the item to be shipped to you. For a lot of gamers there really is no choice but to buy online, so when Game Salute says that not only do we still have to wait for our product to arrive, we also have to pay full retail and way more in shipping, plus we have to buy directly from them and not support an online retailer who may have been very good to us in the past and the reason they give for all of this is wanting to maintain brand value, well, I for one can certainly understand why some gamers get annoyed.

I'm a little surprised that no one to my knowledge has come to the defense of the fine folk who actually work at and make a living from online retail stores. I know a few online retailers personally, and hearing Dan vilify them, even though it is indirectly, doesn't sit well with me. They deserve to make a living as much as anyone else. Also, to suggest they do nothing to promote the hobby is wrong as well.

Ah, whatever. There are so many holes in the pro Game Salute argument that I don't even know why an argument needs to made. They are doing what they are doing to make as much money as they can, just like everyone else. I just hope that in the short and long run they don't do more harm than good.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ray Greenley
United States
Harleysville
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Greetings Commander
mbmbmbmbmb
Is anyone really concerned about the long-term health of the online game stores? They have the entire movement of the economy behind them. I think to characterize Game Salute as anti-online store is disingenuous. Instead I think they're trying to be pro-local store. I'm pretty sure those aren't the same thing, and I'm also pretty sure it's the local stores who need more help. Why is it so bad for one company to try to do business in a way that benefits the local stores?

The counter for Game Salute for the price issue I've heard is that you don't get their games at a discount, but that the list price is lower than they'd be through traditional publishing, so you'll end up paying about the same amount anyway (sans shipping, perhaps). I wonder if anyone has done a comparison to evaluate if Game Salute games are generally cheaper.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Danny Perello
Canada
Salmo
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Want DnDeeples? GeekMail me.
mbmbmbmbmb
RMGreen wrote:
I think to characterize Game Salute as anti-online store is disingenuous. Instead I think they're trying to be pro-local store. I'm pretty sure those aren't the same thing, and I'm also pretty sure it's the local stores who need more help.

Okay, two points, and I'll be brief. When Game Salute says online stores devalue brands, do nothing to promote the hobby and chooses to deny them the ability to sell their games I find it hard to think of them as anything other than anti-online retail, but maybe that's just me. Second, if Game Salute really wanted to help B&M stores they'd let them sell their games to as broad a customer base as possible, but instead they only allow local pick-up which tells me it's more about price control than any altruism toward B&M establishments.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Terry Bailey Sr.
United States
Jonesborough
Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Danny thanks for saying that much better than I tried to. I agree 100%.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Feldmann
United States
Dayton
Ohio
flag msg tools
Moving my blog to sofrankly.com!
mbmbmbmbmb
I can't help but note the following observations:

1. Dan Yarrington runs Game Salute, a fulfillment/distribution house.

2. Dan Yarrington does not distribute to online gaming stores.

3. To buy a Game Salute game online, the purchaser must either buy directly from Game Salute, or from Amazon, in which case the order is fulfilled by either the publisher/designer or by Game Salute.

4. Dan Yarrington owns Myriad Games, a brick & mortar chain.

5. Game Salute sells through brick & mortar stores, but only if the store signs an agreement that they will not sell Game Salute games online (at any price point).

6. Game Salute games, with rare exception, are not available at my local brick and mortar stores (Dayton, OH).

The conclusion, at least for me, is that any way I want to purchase a Game Salute game, Game Salute will be directly involved in the order fulfillment.

And I don't have a problem with this.
It's a set of business practices that Dan Yarrington has chosen. He is free to choose it, and I am free to support it or not. (And as I have said before, I will support it. I really like some of their stuff.) Like it or not, everyone should admit that Dan is one smart guy.

What does bother me is when this discussion starts to take on ethical overtones, including references to "devaluing" games. Perhaps it's just my hang-up, but the word "devaluing" implies an unethical act. Soon, this becomes a matter of who is right or who is wrong. Even Donald's comment above, that buying online would indicate that I am not invested in the local ecosystem, could be taken as a judgement. My lack of interest in the local ecosystem is not necessarily true; it's just that I have a set of purchasing practices just as Dan Yarrington has a set of selling practices.

So, I guess what I really want is to remove the moralistic overtones. Dan Yarrington is not the patron saint of the local gaming store or the bane of online stores . Dan Yarrington is a smart guy who has chosen to pursue business in a way that benefits him, just like every other successful business person. After all, he's not running a charity. Along the way, he does help a lot of designers get their games out into the market. In other words, it really is all about the money.

And that's okay! Dan is doing what he needs to do: good for him.

Though he might be a little long-winded.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Game Salute
United States
Nashua
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Just catching up on this thread. Thanks to everyone for the notes and feedback.

As mentioned specifically in the episode, I don't particular dislike online shopping or online stores. Online stores do provide elements of value, many that are not provided by local stores (e.g. easy access to games, free shipping for consolidated larger orders) and many great online stores provide excellent customer service, broader selection, and many other benefits. All of those things are great. Local stores provide many of the same benefits (when they're good they provide good knowledge and service) as well as other benefits (local play space, showcase ability to browse, etc). I do want to provide the best level of support to local stores.

I don't ascribe any ethical connotation to "devaluing". I'm using that as a term to describe the overall effects on the average market value of a given item (in this case a game).

For many companies, with video games and electronics being key examples, the company determines what they feel the value of their product is and the market responds. If Apple decides that the iPhone 4 is now $100, they price it at that and it's available for that price widely and consistently. This helps brand communication and consistency.

What I'm opposed to, and what I was trying to convey in this episode, is that the industry as a whole accepts a lower market rate for games (at approximately 30% less than stated SRP). At that point, it would be better to simply price the items at 30% less rather than artificially inflate the pricing so that publishers can retain the funds needed to cover operating expenses.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Danny Perello
Canada
Salmo
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Want DnDeeples? GeekMail me.
mbmbmbmbmb
Game Salute wrote:
What I'm opposed to, and what I was trying to convey in this episode, is that the industry as a whole accepts a lower market rate for games (at approximately 30% less than stated SRP). At that point, it would be better to simply price the items at 30% less rather than artificially inflate the pricing so that publishers can retain the funds needed to cover operating expenses.

I really must not be understanding what you're talking about here. If a store chooses to sell something below SRP it is the store that is making less money, not the publisher.

What am I missing?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Terry Bailey Sr.
United States
Jonesborough
Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Plus I as a customer get a better price. I don't want you screwing up my ability to get games at a lower price. Stop rocking the stinkin' boat.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Game Salute
United States
Nashua
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
I'll try to explain more clearly. When a publisher knows that they will only receive base wholesale rate for every copy of the game sold, that means they need to increase the suggested retail price of the game (from which any discounted price to the end user is calculated) in order to end up with the cost they need. This means that, in simple terms, a game that would be listed at $50 could be $40 or $35 from the start. The publisher's actions take into account the standards currently in the industry, which causes the general price inflation I was referring to in this episode. It also contributes to the decrease in the value of the brands across the board, which in turn lessens the effects of discounted pricing - it becomes standard rather than special. It is expected and calculated into the original pricing, rather than an adjustment to market conditions.

- Dan Yarrington
CEO, Game Salute
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Danny Perello
Canada
Salmo
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Want DnDeeples? GeekMail me.
mbmbmbmbmb
Game Salute wrote:
I'll try to explain more clearly. When a publisher knows that they will only receive base wholesale rate for every copy of the game sold, that means they need to increase the suggested retail price of the game (from which any discounted price to the end user is calculated) in order to end up with the cost they need.

Okay, I think I get it now. You're talking about tiny publishers that have unpopular titles that will need to sell their games directly to the public as well as through regular distribution. You are not talking about popular games that sell out of their print runs in a few months. In a sense what you are talking about is economies of scale, or really, the lack thereof. The thing is, tiny print runs of niche games are generally expected to cost more than mass produced games, especially if they're good. Look at Splotter and Fragor Games for two of the more successful examples, and I guess look at most of Kickstarter for a lot of the less successful examples. This is starting to make sense to me know, but I still think you're going about things the wrong way. If your goal is to sell only a few copies at higher profit margins just charge more for your game, and if it's any good it will sell. What you're not going to do, in my opinion of course, is change the industry by limiting access to mediocre games.

The danger then becomes the all too real possibility of a negative stigma being attached to games by Game Salute, the public perception that they aren't readily available because they aren't good enough to compete with the rest of the games that are widely available. Given what you think of the general public and its inability to understand basic marketing costs (a la online prices becoming the perceived norm) I'm surprised you aren't more concerned.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Terry Bailey Sr.
United States
Jonesborough
Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Mr. Yarrington I have but one question. Will I be able to shop around the internet and get a much lower price than MSRP? If the answer is no I don't like what you are doing. It makes me have to give up more of my money.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron White
United States
Marysville
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Skyjack wrote:
Mr. Yarrington I have but one question. Will I be able to shop around the internet and get a much lower price than MSRP? If the answer is no I don't like what you are doing. It makes me have to give up more of my money.


Correct. Game Salute isn't in business to save the consumer money. They are in business to earn money. Their model may make others money, as well, but they are only going to use practices that are beneficial to their company. If anyone else profits, that's just a bonus. Like you, as a consumer, I'm more interested in getting the lowest price possible than I am in maintaining loyalty to some company or local store. I don't make enough money to pay more for something than I have to just because I want to be nice. However, I have learned from this conversation a lot about the longterm effects of discounting and how they can change the market later. Bottom line for me, though, is that good products will always find a way to be purchased. Just like when CDs died because people went online to get their music. There was an adjustment period, but the market worked itself.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.