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Article 27: The UN Security Council Game» Forums » Play By Forum

Subject: Article 27: How to play by PBF rss

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Callan Finn
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So, I’ve been waiting for this game for a long time - took a while to get to the shores of Australia. I’ll be honest – I haven’t played it yet. But, it arrived today, and I’m excited. Why haven’t I played it yet? Numerous reasons, my gaming group is semi out of commission around the holidays, but, I suspect I’ll get a game in later this week. Given Christmas is coming up soon, this probably isn’t the best time to post this, but, I had the idea, and I thought I’d share – see if someone can improve on my ideas, and see if there’s a general interest for this.


But, here's how I think it should work:

Article 27 is a challenging game to convert to PBF format, because the real game has a time limit. Similarly, difficulties arise when deciding how soon the secretary is allowed to swing the gavel to signal the vote – as some players will be sometimes several hours behind a proposal, it’s obviously unfair for the gavel to be swung a second time without players having some time to discuss an issue – offer bribes, try to change a proposal, etc.

As such, each proposal will last a maximum of 48 hours (and a minimum of 24 hours), and will be divided into two main negotiation parts.

So, a proposal’s order of play will look something like this:

1: Secretary swings the gavel, signifying the start of the proposal.
2: The mandatory negotiation phase begins, and lasts a minimum of 24 hours.
3: The optional negotiation phase begins, and may be ended at anytime by the secretary (up to an additional 24 hours)
4: The votes are cast privately to the mod
5: The votes are revealed by the mod, and points are assigned.
6: The game board is updated, and the mod signals for the next secretary to signal the next phase.


1: Swinging the gavel – issues for the round are revealed by the mod, but NO ONE is allowed to discuss them until the secretary general has swung the mallet. This signifies the start of the mandatory negotiation phase.

2: The mandatory negotiation phase is signalled when the secretary hammers the gavel – the player needs to check in and ‘hammer’ the gavel. This signals the start of the first phase, which lasts a minimum of 24 hours. During this period, the secretary is responsible for tabling issues, and putting issues on the floor. During this period, players are allowed to freely discuss, bribe and adjust proposals (in the case of the secretary) as they see fit. This gives every player ample time to make their position heard on the issues, and to offer bribes, etc.

3: After the 24 hour mark, the optional negotiation phase begins (the mod should highlight in bold the time the second phase began – however, any attending player can do this, as its based off the original time the secretary swung the gavel, not the time the mod checks in). During this phase, the secretary now has the option to swing the gavel to have the vote go underway immediately (this should be done in bold) – after this, no more changes are allowed to be made, no more bribes placed, offers made, etc, and voting commences. However, the secretary is allowed to hold off on swinging the gavel, and can continue discussion and negotiation until he/she sees fit, or until such time as an additional 24 hours is over. This includes the secretary tabling or flooring issues. At this point, the negotiation phase is immediately over – any proposals made after the second phase’s 24 hour limit is ignored – no exceptions (5 minute leeway – at discretion of mod).

4: After the gavel is swung in the optional negotiation phase (or the time limit runs out) the mod calls for votes. Votes may be cast before this time, if a player has already made a decision based off what he’s seen of the table/floor and the direction players seem to be going. He may change a vote by PMing the mod, but once all votes are cast, the mod will reveal them, and votes may not be changed. Players will be asked to take no longer then 24 hours to cast their votes (and will be encouraged to take even less time). During this period, players should refrain from talking about how they are going to vote or should vote (posts like 'totally vetoing this guys' to try and intimidate people are certainly allowed, but detailed conversations about why a player should and shouldn't vote for or against something after the gavel has been swung should not be allowed).

5: After the votes are received, the mod will post the results, and reveal the appropriate point allocation per player, including bribes paid, and influences gained per player.

6: The game board will then be updated by the mod, and new proposals and issue tokens will be distributed to the players. At this point, the mod will signal for the next secretary to begin the proposal.

Other rules:
1: No editing posts (unless it’s a few minutes after to make spelling changes)
2: No dice rolls (seems important that people don’t make decisions based off the role of a die, but off the persuasions of an argument)
3: No PMs between players discussing the game, proposals, votes or bribes.

So, what do you guys think? Do you reckon this could work? In a 5 player game, each proposal will take roughly 2-3 days once votes are received, making an average game take about 2 weeks. Not bad for a PBF.

Although, the question does arise about weekends – its obviously not fair to have the game run over the weekend for some players, but is it fair to allow certain proposals a mandatory negotiation of 3 days just because it falls on a weekend? Should a proposal that is going to eat into the weekend be postponed until the Monday? What about for players that live on the other side of the world (where their Monday is everyone else’s Sunday? I speak from experience here, its Monday night as I’m writing this, but everyone in American is still doing a Sunday BBQ).

Does anyone have any good ideas on how to represent the main game board? Should images be used and updated by the mod to represent the secret agenda track and issues, or maybe a text based system (surely there is an easier way?).

Is there any interest in this? To me, this sounds doable, and I think this would be a FANTASTIC game to play as a PBF (that being said, I still haven’t played it yet).

As I’ve said, people are probably super busy round this time of year (and I expect proposals to be put on hold during the Christmas/New Year period), but… darn it, I have a shiny new board game, and I want to share it with people.

Thoughts?
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Clyde W
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In.

Love this game. PM
Adam C
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, he'd also play.
 
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Michael Logan
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In. My copy is still tied up at boards and bits.
 
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Adam C
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As Clyde says, I love this game. I'd totally be in for this. Great adaptation here to PBF with the rule set.
 
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Clyde W
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Woo, already at 3. 2 or three more?

Would LOVE to play with the designer Dan Baden. Can you PM him too?
 
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Callan Finn
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Wow, I wasn't expecting such a strong response so quickly - so, thats three players, thats enough for a game... but lets see if we can get more. I'll PM Dan, see if he's interested. Maybe I'll slip mention of it in the resistance waiting list too, heh.
 
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Clyde W
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That'd be awesome, would love to play this with DJ.

When you PM Dan, point him to Resistance PBF while you're at it!
 
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Callan Finn
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clydeiii wrote:
That'd be awesome, would love to play this with DJ.

When you PM Dan, point him to Resistance PBF while you're at it!


I already PMed him (edit: Dan that is)... I'm sure he'll check out the thread and see

You want to PM Dj and ask if he's interested?
 
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Callan Finn
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So, any ideas on how to handle weekend proposals? Should we just let the mandatory period go through the weekend for proposals that fall on the weekend?
 
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Adam C
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clublock wrote:
So, any ideas on how to handle weekend proposals? Should we just let the mandatory period go through the weekend for proposals that fall on the weekend?


My thought would be poll the group. It's fairly small and if everyone is able/willing then play. If not, the game would be fully suspended until Monday BGG time.
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Callan Finn
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Don't mind me, just testing some score tracks:

[1] [3] [6] [10] [15]
[$$] 0 0 - - X

[Pr] 0 - X X X

[Ju] 0 - - X X

[Pe] 0 - - X X

[In] - X X X X

[Po] 0 0 0 - -


And with colour:


[1] [3] [6] [10] [15]
[$$] 0 0 - - X

[Pr] 0 - X X X

[Ju] 0 - - X X

[Pe] 0 - - X X

[In] - X X X X

[Po] 0 0 0 - -

 
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Callan Finn
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And a Bribe sheet:

Clublock Bribes sheet:

Voting:
Abstian: Yes: Veto: Special:
2inf (Ru) 4inf (UK) 3inf (Ch)*
1inf (US)

*China bribed clublock to have red in the proposal and for the proposal to pass

Table/Floor

Blue: Green: Black: Red: Yellow:
Yes: Yes: Yes: 3inf (UK) Yes: 2inf (ch) Yes:
No: 1inf (US) No: No: No: No: 2inf (ch)



And in colour:


Voting:
Abstian: Yes: Veto: Special:
2inf (Ru) 4inf (UK) 3inf (Ch)*
1inf (US)

*China bribed clublock to have red in the proposal and for the proposal to pass

Table/Floor

Blue: Green: Black: Red: Yellow:
Yes: Yes: Yes: 3inf (UK) Yes: 2inf (ch) Yes:
No: 1inf (US) No: No: No: No: 2inf (ch)

 
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Callan Finn
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And a PM to players about their Drawing Tokens for the round:


Your drawing tokens for the round:

+5:
Yellow

+3:
Red

+1:
Blue

-2:
Black

-4:
Blue
 
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Callan Finn
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The main game board:

Issues this proposal:

Blue:
[$$]


Green:
[Po]


Black:
[$$]

Red:
[Ju]


Yellow:
[In]


Currently on the table:

Green: [Po]
Red: [Ju]

Currently on the floor:
Blue: [$$]
Black: [$$]
Yellow: [In]
 
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Callan Finn
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So, the main page public info will look something like this (typically)

In this example, the 'influence' secret agenda has been discarded from the game, as there is only 5 players.

The main game board:

Issues this proposal:

Blue:
[$$]


Green:
[Po]


Black:
[$$]

Red:
[Ju]


Yellow:
[Pe]


Currently on the table:

Green: [Po]
Red: [Ju]

Currently on the floor:
Blue: [$$]
Black: [$$]
Yellow: [Pe][/q]

Secret Agenda Track


[1] [3] [6] [10] [15]
[$$] 0 0 - - X

[Pr] 0 - X X X

[Ju] 0 - - X X

[Pe] 0 - - X X

[In] X X X X X

[Po] 0 0 0 - -



Player Bribe Sheets

Clublock (France): * currently secretary general

Voting:
Abstian: Yes: Veto: Special:
2inf (Ru) 4inf (UK) 3inf (Ch)*
1inf (US)

*China bribed clublock to have red in the proposal and for the proposal to pass

Table/Floor

Blue: Green: Black: Red: Yellow:
Yes: Yes: Yes: 3inf (UK) Yes: 2inf (ch) Yes:
No: 1inf (US) No: No: No: No: 2inf (ch)



Clyde (US)


Voting:
Abstian: Yes: Veto: Special:
3inf (Ru) 4inf (UK)


Table/Floor

Blue: Green: Black: Red: Yellow:
Yes: Yes: Yes: Yes: Yes:
No: No: No: No: No:



Adam (China)



Voting:
Abstian: Yes: Veto: Special:
2inf (Fr) 1inf (UK)


Table/Floor

Blue: Green: Black: Red: Yellow:
Yes: Yes: Yes: Yes: Yes:
No: No: No: No: No:



Mike (UK)



Voting:
Abstian: Yes: Veto: Special:
1inf (Fr)


Table/Floor

Blue: Green: Black: Red: Yellow:
Yes: Yes: Yes: Yes: Yes:
No: No: No: No: No:



Player#5 (Russia)



Voting:
Abstian: Yes: Veto: Special:


Table/Floor

Blue: Green: Black: Red: Yellow:
Yes: Yes: Yes: Yes: Yes:
No: No: No: No: No:




No one cares about Player 5's vote in this example I suppose.

I guess my question is, does the above post make sense? Can you follow it? Obviously, the agendas are:
[$$] = money
[Pr] = Prestige
[Ju] = Justice
[Pe] = Peace
[In] = Innovation
[Po] = Power

Are the colours too difficult to follow? Should I be using the real Issue names? (where blue = peacekeeping, green = trade sanctions, black = diplomatic sanctions, yellow = humanitarian concerns, red = nuclear non-proliferation).
Do the colours make it too confusing, should I just be using the issue names instead?

What do you guys think?
 
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Callan Finn
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Bah, just realised the secret agenda track doesn't actually match what is currently out on the main board, but, you can use your imagination. It's just an example of how it will look.
 
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Callan Finn
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Hmm, another thought just occurred to me: usually, influence totals are kept secret throughout the entire game. This makes sense for a game you're playing around a table with friends, even though you COULD track exactly how much influence someone has by remembering how much influence they gain each round, and where they're putting their bribes, its pretty impractical in a fast paced game like this.


...but, in a PBF, its actually pretty easy to go back and check exactly just how much influence a player has. Thus, I don't really see the point in hiding players influence totals, and I may keep total influence by each player public, so as not to give the people who do check the influence scores an advantage.
 
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Clyde W
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Or the mod keeps secret scores for everyone..?
 
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clublock wrote:
Thus, I don't really see the point in hiding players influence totals, and I may keep total influence by each player public, so as not to give the people who do check the influence scores an advantage.


Agreed.
 
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Callan Finn
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clydeiii wrote:
Or the mod keeps secret scores for everyone..?


I'm inclined not to do this, as during the normal game influence is checked and verified, so, people do know how much influence people are gaining. The difference is, in real life, its impractical to track it all. Its very easy on a forum, and I'd rather not keep everyone's scores secret.
 
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Clyde W
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clublock wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Or the mod keeps secret scores for everyone..?


I'm inclined not to do this, as during the normal game influence is checked and verified, so, people do know how much influence people are gaining. The difference is, in real life, its impractical to track it all. Its very easy on a forum, and I'd rather not keep everyone's scores secret.
I bet Dan would rather it be all secret, if he could figure out how to do it. With a mod, you can.
 
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Callan Finn
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clydeiii wrote:
clublock wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Or the mod keeps secret scores for everyone..?


I'm inclined not to do this, as during the normal game influence is checked and verified, so, people do know how much influence people are gaining. The difference is, in real life, its impractical to track it all. Its very easy on a forum, and I'd rather not keep everyone's scores secret.
I bet Dan would rather it be all secret, if he could figure out how to do it. With a mod, you can.


Hmm, I suppose its an option...


I guess I'll see what the consensus is and go with that.
 
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