Doug Click
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I am thinking about pre-ordering this game. I am getting Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42 2nd ed and it was the Butterfield Solo expansion that pushed me over the edge.

Is this game going to also include the markings to be used with the solo expansion AND are there plans to include solo firefights?

I assume this game will not be going to Kickstarter like 1775: Rebellion since it has a pre-order page. If the game is going to Kickstarter, I will hold out and pre-order through that.

The pre-order page says, "This pre-order includes any limited edition expansion sheets that will be printing along with this publication". Will this game include "free" bonuses? Awaking the Bear had a bonus counter sheet and the solo expansion, which made it well worth it to pre-order.

I think I can pre-order this game much cheaper through a game store about an hour from my house, but I also like my money going to the producer of the game since it boosts their bottom line... so, if there are not going to be any extras, I will just e-mail Dewayne's World and see what he can do for me.

So, questions in summary:

Will it include Butterfield Solo Firefights?
Will it go to Kickstarter or stay website only pre-order?
Will the pre-order include any bonuses that will make it worth the $80 purchase (with shipping) vs getting it about $20 cheaper in the next town over?


Edit: pre-order link: http://academy-games.com/games/conflict-of-heroes/guadalcana...
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David Siskin
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Good questions all.
 
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Dominic Dinkel
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Now that you bring this up, these are all questions I would like answered as well. I will do the Kickstarter thing if there is one, or else I will just pre-order directly from Academy.
 
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Dean halley

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Uwe will make the decision on some of your questions, so I can't answer them all. But here what I can do for you...

A list of the firefights that have been designed for Guadalcanal is now posted under the Guadalcanal link at Academy Games. It identifies which firefights will use the CoH solo rules (aka John Butterfield solo rules). The last one listed ("What If") was a late addition to the fold, so it may end up being a bonus firefight later on, as I am still play testing it.

I am also working on a fire fight that is not on the list that was inspired by the game of Scotland Yard. In it a cost watcher and his loyal Melanesian allies have to avoid Japanese patrols that are searching for them. Its a cat and mouse game that I think will be a lot of fun. But getting it right is proving to be a challenge. I need to find more FtF opponents to help me. So it will definitely be a bonus firefight that will be available after Guadalcanal is released. Maybe some of you who purchase the game will volunteer to play test it?

There will be two firefight books for Guadalcanal. Book #1 covers the time period of 7 August 1942 to 1 November 1942. Book #2 covers the time period of 4 November 1942 to 1 February 1943. The time frame of the two firefight books correspond with the ebb and flow of combat on the Island, so it was a natural break for the firefights as well.

In Book #1 Both The Marines and Japanese are attacking and defending. In Book #2 the U.S. Army and Marines have the Japanese on the defensive as the last 16,000 Imperial Army troops on the Island are conducting a fighting withdrawal to Cape Esperance to be evacuated.

The good news is that Book #2 and the additional counter sheet you will need to play many of the firefights in it will be added as a free bonus if you pre-order the game.

That is what I know for now.

take care all,
Dean
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Yoki Erdtman
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down range wrote:
The good news is that Book #2 and the additional counter sheet you will need to play many of the firefights in it will be added as a free bonus if you pre-order the game.

And how will we get these items if we don't pre-order?
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Doug Click
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Yokiboy wrote:
down range wrote:
The good news is that Book #2 and the additional counter sheet you will need to play many of the firefights in it will be added as a free bonus if you pre-order the game.

And how will we get these items if we don't pre-order?


According to the updated game page:

Quote:
Firefight Book 2

Firefight dates: 4 November 1942 to 31 January 1943
This Firefight Book and a bonus counter sheet will be available to people who pre-order for free, and for purchase later on to people who don’t. The counter sheet includes U.S. Army units, additional USMC units, and wreaks counters for all of the vehicles in Guadalcanal.
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Dean halley

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Yoki,
I imagine that your question on how to get the Firefight book and counter sheet if you don't pre-order will be answered when there is an answer to it . The only thing Uwe and I have talked about for Firefight Book #2 and the extra counter sheet so far is to offer it free for per-orders. Guadalcanal is still being laid out for publication, so details like that will be decided on as they come up during that process.

Take care,
Dean

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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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When does the pre-order door close for Guadalcanal?
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Doug Click
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While e-mailing Uwe about Awaking the Bear, I asked if there are plans to kickstart this game like 1775...

His answer:
Quote:
Doug, we most likely will not be Kickstarting Guadalcanal, since we already have it posted on our website.


So, no kickstarter... Free firefight expansion... free Wrecks for counters for Guadalcanal
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Dominic Dinkel
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StevenE wrote:
When does the pre-order door close for Guadalcanal?


I am pretty certain the pre-order for AtB 2nd edition ran up very close to the ship date of the game. So I am confident you will have quite awhile to pre-order. I will pre-order it most likely, but I am in no hurry since the game is still several months away at the earliest.
 
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Geo
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For Europeans it makes no sense to pre-order to get the extra book + countersheet for free, as the shipping outside US is $35.

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Nigel Heather
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Yes, I'm finding all these pre-order and kickstarter offers by Academy a big turn-off.

They are great for our US friends but postsge and import taxes make them practically unatianable for fans in europe and other countries.

I appreciate that this is mostly beyond Academy's control but I can't help feeling envious and a little slighted.

Once a big Academy fan I find myself crossing games off my wish list, first 1775, now Guadalcanal.

Cheers,

Nigel

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Nick B.
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So just buy the game normal in your local game store?
I mean you're right. Preorder isn't really worthwile for us european customers.
Buuuuut .... where is the problem to buy the game and also the pre-order extras (which for sure, will be find their way into the BBG-Store - where you can buy them with free-shipping?).

Find it a little bit strange to follow your point. You just said it, these things are beyond Academy's control - but you're slap them, although that isn't their fault?

Come on, where's the point?
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Nigel Heather
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I said mostly.

I can't blame them for the cost of transport across the atlantic nor the import taxes that my country imposes, nor the admin fee scams that the couriers operate.

But they could do something like make pre-orders/kickstarter available from different parts of the world (say from germany to cover europe), rather than just being US-Centric.

They could allow games to be pre-ordered and then shipped en-masse to the the represtive countries thriugh their distributers - that way postage costs would be reduced and because taxes would be charged properly we wouldn't be at the mercy of the courier admin fee scams.

The thing that niggles me the most is not that the US are getting a cheap deal, that's fair enough, I can accept that they benefit from economy of scale. It's that they are getting bonus items that may or may not be made available to those that can't access the pre-order/kickstarter deals at some time in the future.

Will I be able to go to my local store and buy the Guadalcanal extra scenario book and counter sheet or the AtB wrecks - doubt it. If they do become available I bet You will have to order direct from Acadamy complete with high trans-atlantic postage and courier admin fees.

Yes I am jealous, yes I do feel like a second class citizen and yes I do appreciate that I am being a little irrational - but that is how I feel.

And yes, I do feel emotional enough about it that I will cross the games off my wish list - there are plenty more games on my list to take their place.

Cheers,

Nigel
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Lauri
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I was complaining the same thing in different thread and Uwe Eickert answered: "For Europe we are beginning to ship from Germany".
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/10820110#10820110

I don't know if they are already doing it or not. Local retailers here in Finland are selling Awakening the Bear 2nd edition for 80€ (~104$)!!! With that money I could pre-order Conflict of Heroes games directly from Academy Games and get all the extras...
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Nick B.
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Calm down, it isn't all that worse!

Quote:
But they could do something like make pre-orders/kickstarter available from different parts of the world (say from germany to cover europe), rather than just being US-Centric.


Well ... they already have launched a cooperation with "Udo Grebe Games", a GMT-part in germany. Check their side out Nigel

http://www.ugg.de/

There you cann buy the american goodies and even preorder (it looks like they called it "P500" there. Sending packages from Germany to the Island shoulnd't be so expensive, right?

Quote:
The thing that niggles me the most is not that the US are getting a cheap deal, that's fair enough, I can accept that they benefit from economy of scale. It's that they are getting bonus items that may or may not be made available to those that can't access the pre-order/kickstarter deals at some time in the future.


Wells thats a matter of economy. I believe that the american market for such games is still the largest. But the Bonus Items => check out UGG up there!


Quote:
Will I be able to go to my local store and buy the Guadalcanal extra scenario book and counter sheet or the AtB wrecks - doubt it. If they do become available I bet You will have to order direct from Acadamy complete with high trans-atlantic postage and courier admin fees.


YES! Of course! Just look at the current Situation. The additional Sheets will made it to the BGG-Store, where you can buy them without Shipping-Costs. Or you look on UGG!


 
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Yoki Erdtman
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Nickos wrote:
Well ... they already have launched a cooperation with "Udo Grebe Games", a GMT-part in germany. Check their side out Nigel

http://www.ugg.de/

I applaud UGG for their presence at SPIEL each year, where they represent many a great wargame publisher. However, their web site is such a joke that I would never order anything from them. They still use frames for crying out loud! Frames?!
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Nigel Heather
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Quote:
YES! Of course! Just look at the current Situation. The additional Sheets will made it to the BGG-Store, where you can buy them without Shipping-Costs. Or you look on UGG!


Are you sure. When AtB was being discussed I remember reading that Monster Tanks would be available through BGG but that wrecks and butterfield would be through the Academy shop.

To be honest though, anything substantial I'm going to have the same problem whether it is BGG or Academy.

Don't know how it works in Germany but this is the problem in the UK.

1 - postage. Expensive to ship heavy cardboard to international addresses - I can understand that.

2 - anything costing more than £18 (including postage) has import taxes (VAT - 20%) applied. Again, I can understand that.

3 - because the couriers pay the VAT on my behalf they are free to charge an admin fee. They can basically choose what they want and I don't have any say whether they do it this way or not. Typically they will charge £10 to £15. It's this one that really irritates me.

This means that I would end up paying double for the game which simply isn't acceptable to me.

I'll have a look at the German site - if that is reasonable and works that would be a big improvement because at least with VAT being paid in Germany the couriers won't be able to hit me with their admin fee scam.

Don't think it will help with 1775 though because that is on Kickstarter.

Cheers,

Nigel


BTW - I'm only expressing how I feel personally. In no way am I saying that everyone should feel the same way. The current situation does make me feel less inclined to buy Academy products - but that's just how I personally feel.
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Hubert AMG
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You are right Nigel, TAX policy is annoying. I have backed few games on Kickstarter, however it will not be a common thing to do - simply - price on KS is not that great when you add VAT and usually high shipping cost to it. It is much convenient to buy game afterwards in the FLGS however - not all KS games are imported - and that's a pain.

Monster tanks are being distributed into local stores in EU.
I am not sure if FLGS brought it from Essen and still has some reserves or did they import - however they have it.

I am not sure how about all the additions for Guadalcanal - but at least part of them should be available in the FLGSs, Academy also wants to make money - and not only produce exclusives for pre-orderes
I am also looking forward for solo rules from Buterfield which will enhance CoC very much.
 
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Joe Waller
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Sorry to hear about the shipping cost to Europe, but can we please keep this thread on the original topic? The OP's questions are getting lost in this discussion.

Sayburr wrote:

Will it include Butterfield Solo Firefights?
Will it go to Kickstarter or stay website only pre-order?
Will the pre-order include any bonuses that will make it worth the $80 purchase (with shipping) vs getting it about $20 cheaper in the next town over?
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Doug Click
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jwallerrocks wrote:
Sorry to hear about the shipping cost to Europe, but can we please keep this thread on the original topic? The OP's questions are getting lost in this discussion.

Sayburr wrote:

Will it include Butterfield Solo Firefights?
Will it go to Kickstarter or stay website only pre-order?
Will the pre-order include any bonuses that will make it worth the $80 purchase (with shipping) vs getting it about $20 cheaper in the next town over?


I am pretty sure those have been answered....

There will be solo firefights included.

Since it is up for pre-order, Uwe said via e-mail to me, that it will most likely not go up on kickstarter.

The pre-order includes the second booklet of firefights and a counter sheet that includes U.S. Army units, additional USMC units, and wreaks counters for all of the vehicles in Guadalcanal. Both will bemade availble for purchase later.
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Ty Snouffer
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Sayburr wrote:
jwallerrocks wrote:
Sorry to hear about the shipping cost to Europe, but can we please keep this thread on the original topic? The OP's questions are getting lost in this discussion.

Sayburr wrote:

Will it include Butterfield Solo Firefights?
Will it go to Kickstarter or stay website only pre-order?
Will the pre-order include any bonuses that will make it worth the $80 purchase (with shipping) vs getting it about $20 cheaper in the next town over?


I am pretty sure those have been answered....

There will be solo firefights included.

Since it is up for pre-order, Uwe said via e-mail to me, that it will most likely not go up on kickstarter.

The pre-order includes the second booklet of firefights and a counter sheet that includes U.S. Army units, additional USMC units, and wreaks counters for all of the vehicles in Guadalcanal. Both will bemade availble for purchase later.


I hate to be a nit picker, but on the AG site in the Guadacanal Preview section it lists the firefights. There are several listed for "CoH solo rules" and only one "John Butterfield solo rules."

My understanding is that the Butterfield solo rules require more than just a firefight, maps, and counters. It uses some system to introduce a narrative. How that is done isn't clear, but it does require an additional pack for Awakening the Bear. Will there be an additional pack for Guadalcanal? Who knows?

In my head I have the idea of something similar to Butterfield's old Ambush system. Paragraphs, text, story . . . awesome!

Details have been light so far though. But I did think it was interesting that there was some sort of disticntion made on the site between CoH solo and Butterfield solo. There are solo rules in the main rulebook.

My money is that the maps, firefights, and counters needed for Butterfield solo play are in the box. The materials necessary for the narrative will be sold as a separate module just like Awakening the Bear. The pricing for Guadalcanal suggests this but I am only speculating.
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Yoki Erdtman
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tsnouffer wrote:
In my head I have the idea of something similar to Butterfield's old Ambush system. Paragraphs, text, story . . . awesome!

I think you should look to his D-Day at Omaha Beach system instead, especially as the symbols (circles, squares, and triangles) used in the 2nd edition of Awakening the Bear match. IMO, this is a highly random and not overly narrative way of solitaire play, but given the difference in scale between the games it may work better in Conflict of Heroes.
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Ty Snouffer
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Yokiboy wrote:
tsnouffer wrote:
In my head I have the idea of something similar to Butterfield's old Ambush system. Paragraphs, text, story . . . awesome!

I think you should look to his D-Day at Omaha Beach system instead, especially as the symbols (circles, squares, and triangles) used in the 2nd edition of Awakening the Bear match. IMO, this is a highly random and not overly narrative way of solitaire play, but given the difference in scale between the games it may work better in Conflict of Heroes.


Good inisght. I'm not familair with Butterfield's more recent works althoughI've wanted to give D-Day a try.

I was pretty sure at some point Uwe mentioned a narrative, but may be i read too much into that. I hope it is something more than moving counters around based on some system.
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Keegan Fink
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... and now it would seem that Guadalcanal will be heading to Kickstarter after all?

[in response to a podcast interview in which Uwe states that COH: Guadalcanal will be available through an upcoming kickstarter campaign]

uweeickert wrote:
Doug, Our online [pre]orders will count towards the Kickstarter stretch goals!


http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/923920/interview-with-uwe-ei...
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