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Subject: What if Go "scored" like Othello? rss

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@spielfriek
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In other words, what if, instead of capturing stones and removing them from the board, you flipped them to YOUR color instead?

Just curious what the ramifications of this would be. How would it change/ruin the game. Thanks!
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Martins Livens
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Stephen Glenn wrote:
In other words, what if, instead of capturing stones and removing them from the board, you flipped them to YOUR color instead?

Just curious what the ramifications of this would be. How would it change/ruin the game. Thanks!


Japanese scoring wouldn't work.
Life and death fights would be simpler and less rewarding IMHO.
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@spielfriek
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marliv wrote:

Japanese scoring wouldn't work.


Right. If this "variant" works on any level, it would replace other scoring methods.

marliv wrote:

Life and death fights would be simpler and less rewarding IMHO.


Simpler is good. Less rewarding is a drag. But as long as it wasn't trivial (ie, unrewarding) it could be worth exploring.

What if this "variant" were played on a smaller board?
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Randall Bart
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You are not talking about changing the scoring. You are talking about changing the fundamental nature of life and death.
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@spielfriek
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Fair enough. I'm just curious whether such a change would result in an interesting activity/competition.
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Russ Williams
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FWIW I remember reading similar discussions in the past (of mixing Othello with Go), but I don't recall the upshot or if anyone ended up making a good game out of it or not.
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dypaca
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You might be interested in Loose. It is a game similar to Go which flips piece color when they are captured. However it also changes the definition of a liberty. (or rather divides them into true and false liberties, where only true liberties allow a group to live).
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@spielfriek
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Nice find.

Unfortunately, there isn't much written about it yet.
 
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dypaca
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Well it is quite new. And as you ran into starting this thread, I think many go enthusiasts are willing to listen to variants to scoring or handicapping, but much fewer are interested in anything which would change the core gameplay.

It is worth considering why Loose needed the idea of false liberties. If you just played standard go but flipped captures instead of removing them, then capturing would never create liberties. If you allowed suicide then no group would ever be uncapturable. Without suicide, life would be possible, but it seems like you would often end up with the entire board in seki.
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Ramon Mercado
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Barticus88 wrote:
You are not talking about changing the scoring. You are talking about changing the fundamental nature of life and death.


There in lies the problem. While before you could live by capturing a stone and making and eye, know capturing the stone does not afect live and dead. It is a fundamental change, as Barticus points out.
 
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@spielfriek
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dypaca wrote:
I think many go enthusiasts are willing to listen to variants to scoring or handicapping, but much fewer are interested in anything which would change the core gameplay.


Certainly understandable.

In fact, VARIANTS was arguably the wrong place to post the question. It wasn't a suggestion (let's try this) as much as it was a question (what would happen if?)

My purpose in asking the question was to see if there was an interesting game that used SOME rules of Go and SOME rules of Othello. It wouldn't be a form of Go (ie, a variant) but a new experience.

Does this new experience have any merit as a game? That's what I'm interested in finding out.

Thanks for the enlightening comments so far.
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Jason Lee
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Stephen Glenn wrote:
In other words, what if, instead of capturing stones and removing them from the board, you flipped them to YOUR color instead?

Stephen Glenn wrote:

Simpler is good. Less rewarding is a drag. But as long as it wasn't trivial (ie, unrewarding) it could be worth exploring.

Stephen Glenn wrote:
Does this new experience have any merit as a game? That's what I'm interested in finding out.


It's probably best to make your latter point clear in advance. Although the two games look similar to someone who doesn't play either, Go has nothing to do with Othello. You (perhaps inadvertently) give off the impression that you don't know much about Go, and aren't in any hurry to learn. That's fine - life's too short to try everything! But I'm sure you understand that if you asked a bunch of chess players whether it would make their game better if they borrowed some mechanics from Agricola, they might assume you wouldn't know a chessboard if it hit you in the face... and if that's the case, why even bother discussing Chessricola with you?
 
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Stephen Glenn wrote:
Fair enough. I'm just curious whether such a change would result in an interesting activity/competition.


No.
 
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@spielfriek
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It is clear that I have not made myself clear at all. This is my fault, no one else's.

I'm happy to consider the matter closed.
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calvin chow
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i think you've just described a version of this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life
 
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Russ Williams
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calvinc71 wrote:
i think you've just described a version of this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life

Why? It seems that about the only thing they have in common is pieces on a square grid (and Life's grid is unbounded while Go's is bounded).

The mechanisms of how pieces on a square change are totally different. (E.g. in Life an occupied cell can become empty again, whereas in the proposed Go variant an occupied cell never becomes empty again.)

(And of course Life is not an interactive game between decision-making players but a deterministic automaton...)
 
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