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Subject: A couple of curiousities rss

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Isak Silver
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There are a couple of rules I'm curious about, either from the rulebook or the FAQ, that seem non-intuitive or contradictory:

1) [FAQ] If the chimera is discarded (not used) the deck + discard is reshuffled.
- If this is the case why mention that the discard is reshuffled if the deck runs out? With this addition it will never happen.

2) [Rule] The minis (save for kracken) only stay until the same player is active in the next round?
- Isn't this awfully short for them? They seem really weak considering this. The "use another one to remove it" seems like a borderline useless action then.

3) [Forums] Does discarding with Zeus really allow new draws?
- The way I see it the monsters are only drawn at the beginning of a round, which is why the "So the second last player can be left without any creatures" is mentioned.

4) [FAQ] A potential victory is enough, which means a player can be booted before the end of the game
- I thought "proving" implied that a victory would happen (definitive statement) on that round, avoiding the problem completely. Is that really too stringent?

5) [Rule interpretation] 8 ships/troops is max
- I always thought it made sense if a player could suicide his troops to buy them elsewhere. Having them all out being detrimental just seemed weird to me. Does this break the game?

Anyway, great game; just curious about some rules that seem a bit weird.
 
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Aaron Bohm
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Phatlewt wrote:

1) [FAQ] If the chimera is discarded (not used) the deck + discard is reshuffled.
- If this is the case why mention that the discard is reshuffled if the deck runs out? With this addition it will never happen.


If the Chimera is the last card or two in the deck and is not used or otherwise discarded it will cause a situation where you need to fill all three spaces but can't. If that happens, shuffle the discard to refill the spaces (and then you'll shuffle immediately as soon as the Chimera gets discarded once more).


Phatlewt wrote:

2) [Rule] The minis (save for kracken) only stay until the same player is active in the next round?
- Isn't this awfully short for them? They seem really weak considering this. The "use another one to remove it" seems like a borderline useless action then.


It's a tad more powerful than you let on since they stay on the board until the beginning of that players turn. This means potentially someone who went first can have the creature from the beginning of that round and then, if they play last next round, all the way until the end of the next round (so, in effect almost 2 full turns).

Yes, they are not super powerful but they can come in handy every once in a while. Honestly, not too many of the creatures are super powerful but all of them can have some interesting effects and combos in the game.

Phatlewt wrote:

3) [Forums] Does discarding with Zeus really allow new draws?
- The way I see it the monsters are only drawn at the beginning of a round, which is why the "So the second last player can be left without any creatures" is mentioned.


I'm not sure what the question is but Zeus' power essentially replaces a creature on the board with the top of the deck at the cost of 1 gold. He can keep doing so as long as he has gold but he can't replace an empty spot. This means no matter what the total of creatures that can be purchased per round cannot exceed 3.

This is a very interesting and powerful god power and should not be overlooked, that's all I'll say in way of spoiler.

Phatlewt wrote:

4) [FAQ] A potential victory is enough, which means a player can be booted before the end of the game
- I thought "proving" implied that a victory would happen (definitive statement) on that round, avoiding the problem completely. Is that really too stringent?


Basically all you have to "prove" is that you can get 2 metropoli. So, if you have 1 metropolis and your buddy only has 1 island but has 1 metropolus you can attack that island.

The reason it's only a potential victory is that the other players may attempt to get an island of yours after your turn (and therefore you wouldn't win, and your buddy would have to now sit out).

To alleviate your concerns, I've played this a lot and I've never seen this and I've heard it's considerably rare that someone gets eliminated in this manner. I would say a 1 island position is pretty strong in that they can pump Apollon for 4 gold per turn and can sit on their island with impunity for most of the game so this reward is not without the risk of being eliminated and solo island players should be wary and try and take a second island (and in fact they would need to anyway to win the game).

Phatlewt wrote:

5) [Rule interpretation] 8 ships/troops is max
- I always thought it made sense if a player could suicide his troops to buy them elsewhere. Having them all out being detrimental just seemed weird to me. Does this break the game?


Well, there are cards that let you sell your troops but generally having all your units out is a good thing - you just need to take care where you put them. If you have the cash to get them all out I would think it would be much less expensive to move them around with Poseidon and Ares than it would to buy them all back again but that's just me. I honestly don't see instances where a person has purchased all their soldiers but wants them at X instead of Y, or at least not enough to warrant a house rule but you could certainly do so if you feel it's too restrictive. I'd warn you however that this is probably an indication that your group is playing to slowly toward the end game and that they should probably be more aggressively going after Metropoli instead of building up troops.
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Douglas Tempel
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Phatlewt wrote:
There are a couple of rules I'm curious about, either from the rulebook or the FAQ, that seem non-intuitive or contradictory:

5) [Rule interpretation] 8 ships/troops is max
- I always thought it made sense if a player could suicide his troops to buy them elsewhere. Having them all out being detrimental just seemed weird to me. Does this break the game?


Just out of curiosity, how many games allow you to "suicide" your troops when you have all of your troops on the board? It seems counter-intuitive to me to ask some of your troops to "kill themselves." You can always start a battle with some troops that you'd like to reposition; that should free up a few.
 
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Ron Hoppe
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dougtempel wrote:
Phatlewt wrote:
There are a couple of rules I'm curious about, either from the rulebook or the FAQ, that seem non-intuitive or contradictory:

5) [Rule interpretation] 8 ships/troops is max
- I always thought it made sense if a player could suicide his troops to buy them elsewhere. Having them all out being detrimental just seemed weird to me. Does this break the game?


Just out of curiosity, how many games allow you to "suicide" your troops when you have all of your troops on the board? It seems counter-intuitive to me to ask some of your troops to "kill themselves." You can always start a battle with some troops that you'd like to reposition; that should free up a few.


In fact you could have a battle/lose and buy those troops right back on the very same god phase.
 
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Isak Silver
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dougtempel wrote:
Phatlewt wrote:
There are a couple of rules I'm curious about, either from the rulebook or the FAQ, that seem non-intuitive or contradictory:

5) [Rule interpretation] 8 ships/troops is max
- I always thought it made sense if a player could suicide his troops to buy them elsewhere. Having them all out being detrimental just seemed weird to me. Does this break the game?


Just out of curiosity, how many games allow you to "suicide" your troops when you have all of your troops on the board? It seems counter-intuitive to me to ask some of your troops to "kill themselves." You can always start a battle with some troops that you'd like to reposition; that should free up a few.


Eclipse allows it, as well as almost any RTS on the market. Freeing up positions by suicide makes a whole lot of more sense than to vague battles with the sole intent of losing some troops.
 
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Douglas Tempel
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I'll just say that I respectfully disagree. I like the fact that troops are a limited resource where you have to think carefully about where they should be invested.
 
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Aaron Bohm
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Thematically war games that are similar make more sense as well.

You have X number of troops to deploy and once deployed that's where they are. Imagine then a general saying, "well guys, we need you to kill yourselves so we can magically teleport troops to the opposite front."

Honestly, this should be a non-argument for Cyclades. If you find yourself in the highly unlikely position of 1. having spawned all your troops 2. needing to spawn more troops and 3. finding that the troops you have on the board are in no way sufficiently placed for your needs than you've done something horribly wrong.
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Brad Reider
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Eclipse does not allow suicide of ships, I don't think. Check the forums and rulebook. You can bankrupt your empire on purpose to evacuate planets, but not remove ships. Love both of these games.
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Charlie Theel
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brad77 wrote:
Eclipse does not allow suicide of ships, I don't think. Check the forums and rulebook. You can bankrupt your empire on purpose to evacuate planets, but not remove ships. Love both of these games.


Yes, that previous comment was wrong - Eclipse does not allow it.




Also, the monsters are slightly better with the expansion, as you can discard Preistess cards to keep them out longer. Generally, they're very situational but can certainly be worth it.
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Kevin Smith
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With respect to the creatures being on the board for a seemingly short period of time, that is true. A lot of them are one shot effects.
However, those one shot effects can also win you the game.
Based on my limited plays, they seem to work just fine.

Kevin
 
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