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Subject: The expansions scare me, expert advice needed... rss

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Brandon Holmes
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So I went out and bought both expansions probably a year ago or more but I never use them. The problem is we don't play frequently enough to be overly familiar with the base rules and thus we always feel overwhelmed by the thought of adding any extra complications from the expansions. Usually all we use are the plastic basestars and the characters. We once used the Pegasus and Treachery cards and while the Pegasus was fine the Treachery card mechanic got mixed reviews.

The Pegasus (mainly for airlocks) and the Cylon Fleet Board are really something I want to add but I worry if I add them I will need to add too many other things (either for balance or simply in the rules). Let's start simple first though:

1. What can I safely add to the base game that won't really add any extra rules/complications?
Obviously the plastic basestars won't change anything, some of the characters seem safe (other than the ones that use treachery cards) etc. Can I add the skill, crisis cards etc.? Anything else?

2. Can I add the Pegasus to the above without a hitch or do I need treachery cards or other complications?

3. Can I add the Cylon Fleet Board and CAG position without adding anything extra?

4. Assuming I add just the Pegasus and CFB, will the game be too easy for the humans? Do we need Treachery cards for instance to balance things in this setup?

What I ultimately want is to add all the components I intend to use to my base game and never open the expansions again. A huge thanks in advance to anyone that can help me. I hate seeing the expansions basically unplayed after I was so excited to try them out.


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Robert
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bholmes4 wrote:
3. Can I add the Cylon Fleet Board and CAG position without adding anything extra?

You need at least the Crises Cards from Exodus and of course the Mark VII Vipers. I would add the Skill Cards from Exodus too, but probably you can also play without them.

bholmes4 wrote:
4. Assuming I add just the Pegasus and CFB, will the game be too easy for the humans? Do we need Treachery cards for instance to balance things in this setup?

From what you're saying about your group, probably not. Just leave out all Crises and Skill Cards from Pegasus and of course Ellen Tigh.
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Robert Stewart
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Pegasus skill cards add the complication of "movement" abilities - ones which you can only do during your own movement step and the "reckless" mechanic. Exodus skill cards add "skill check abilities" - which are like the "reckless skill check" effects on some Treachery cards, but work in every check, not just ones which have been made reckless. If your group can handle Treachery and Reckless, then Exodus skill cards should be fine.

The Pegasus Cylon locations are absolutely fine to add - the only rule change needed to support them is that a revealed Cylon with an unrevealed Loyalty card immediately hands it to another player - everything else that's different is on the board.

Which crises are safe to add depends on which other components you're using - some Pegasus crises refer to Treachery, or to execution, and obviously the Cylon attack crises should be removed if you're playing with the CFB. Some Exodus crises have a Consequence symbol and effect, which relies on the presence of the Exodus skill cards (or Treachery), so they should probably be left out.

I'd add in all the Destinations and Quorum cards - personally, I include Mining Asteroid in the Destination deck and keep the Scar crisis card handy, but you may decide that's one complication too many. Pegasus Quorum cards include one or two that refer to Treachery.

Super Crises and You Are A Cylon cards: again, leave out the attacks if you're using the CFB, and leave out the ones that refer to treachery if you're not using it, but otherwise throw them all in.


The Cylon Fleet Board is probably the single biggest chunk of Exodus in terms of direct effect on gameplay (Ionian Nebula is a close runner-up, but you can usually get away with ignoring allies/trauma most of the game, while ignoring the CFB will kill you). If you're using it, then definitely replace two of the regular Vipers with the four improved Vipers, and include the four extra Raiders.

Ionian Nebula (allies, trauma and crossroads) can be boxed, as can conflicted loyalties (final five and personal goal loyalty cards) - though I would hang on to the extra plain You Are Not A Cylon cards and use Exodus-style executions rather than Pegasus (in Exodus, you add an extra YANAC to the loyalty deck, so post-Sleeper there's one loyalty card not dealt out, then any time a human is executed, they add a YANAC to the loyalty deck and draw a new loyalty card; in Pegasus, an executed human is guaranteed human until Sleeper - or for the rest of the game post-Sleeper). You can also box New Caprica (game board and NC crises) and Cylon Leaders (character sheets and agendas).

It's up to you whether to use base game Investigative Committees or replace them with Pegasus ones - the only difference is that the Pegasus ones don't reveal Destiny.
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Neil
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Great info here. Thanks.

I don't play regularly enough to keep on top of all the extra rules added by the expansions. Last time I played I found the extra skill check rules in particular added more overhead and complications with little payoff in terms of gameplay.

To avoid the bloat, next time I'm going to:

-ditch crisis cards and skill cards from Pegasus (except I'll keep the Investigative Committee)

-ditch crisis cards with 'consequence' symbol from Exodus

-ditch quorum, super crisis, you are a cylon cards that refer to treachery

-keep cylon fleet board, pegasus cylon locations, pegasus board, but ditch all other expansion features (new caprica, conflicted loyalties, cylon leaders, etc)

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Robert
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rmsgrey wrote:
Ionian Nebula (allies, trauma and crossroads) can be boxed, as can conflicted loyalties (final five and personal goal loyalty cards) - though I would hang on to the extra plain You Are Not A Cylon cards and use Exodus-style executions rather than Pegasus.

I'd also use the Final Five Loyalty Cards from Exodus. They make the game more interesting without adding overhead.
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Brandon Holmes
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I don't have time for a detailed response and I am hoping we get more responses or at least confirmation that the above ideas are best but I remember now what we didn't like about the Treachery cards: the reckless mechanic. We either never remembered to use it ourselves or forgot that others could use it against us. For us this was more an annoyance than it was worth. If a card just has new effects and we can use them as normal (hopefully Exodus are like that) that won't be a problem. But Treachery cards just didn't work too well.

Oh and does the Exodus airlock require the Pegasus board? That is the main reason I would use Pegasus so if I can get rid of that board somehow that might be preferable (unless using the CFB without Pegasus would be too hard for the humans).
 
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Richard Dowdy
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Exodus includes executions, but no airlock space like the Pegasus board has (they can happen from crisis cards, Cally's OPG, etc.) If you want to make the airlock available but not use the Pegasus board, you could make its action available via Galactica. Probably adding the airlock action to the Admiral's quarters would work (so it would have Action: brig someone and Action: execute someone as options).

If you add the Pegasus board but not other Pegasus components like treachery or New Caprica, it does shift the game balance in the humans' favor by giving them some extra options but mostly by being a damage sponge. Consider adopting a house rule that damage can only be assigned to Pegasus if at least one character is on board.
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ackmondual
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bholmes4 wrote:
So I went out and bought both expansions probably a year ago or more but I never use them. The problem is we don't play frequently enough to be overly familiar with the base rules and thus we always feel overwhelmed by the thought of adding any extra complications from the expansions. Usually all we use are the plastic basestars and the characters. We once used the Pegasus and Treachery cards and while the Pegasus was fine the Treachery card mechanic got mixed reviews.

The Pegasus (mainly for airlocks) and the Cylon Fleet Board are really something I want to add but I worry if I add them I will need to add too many other things (either for balance or simply in the rules). Let's start simple first though:


This is sort of like the "economists problem".... you ask 20 BSG players about what's good and what ain't, you'll get 26 different opinions.

I'd say the idea thing to do is to just try out everything and then tweak that. While going even more incremental within an expansion is nice, it does add extra overhead too....
1) some groups I play with want to know exactly what's been houseruled
2) setup time complication gets magnified. With my copy of BSG with 2 exp mixed in, if we just wanna do a base game, at least I can just give the noobs clear and concise instructions on how to help setup. Usually, if you see a "battlestar splotch" (Peg) or "basestar mark" (Exo), take them out b/c those are exp material we're NOT using. It's easy to do for Destination, Qcard, skill, and crisis deck. Then shuffle wen the exp material have been removed. Because of swapping out ICs between Peg and base game ones, I take care of the yellow deck myself. If you need to search specifically for Treachery effects in crisis deck, etc..... it's more work for them to do and they may end up not being able to do the job right now.


bholmes4 wrote:
1. What can I safely add to the base game that won't really add any extra rules/complications?
Obviously the plastic basestars won't change anything, some of the characters seem safe (other than the ones that use treachery cards) etc. Can I add the skill, crisis cards etc.? Anything else?
Kat is the only one that you can add from a "mechanically neutral" perspective. However, she's got "high maintainence" since her weakness has to be diligently remembered and checked.

Cain involves executions which is actually fine since you're fine with that. Ditto with Dee, but her weakness instead. Ellen adds brown (treachery). It really does change things up if you just let her draw 4 cards without the brown skill card, but in a pinch, it is what it is.

bholmes4 wrote:
2. Can I add the Pegasus to the above without a hitch or do I need treachery cards or other complications?
Kat's special can be nice with Treachery around, but not a big deal I suppose.

bholmes4 wrote:
3. Can I add the Cylon Fleet Board and CAG position without adding anything extra?
Sure. Looking ahead, I'm assuming you're going to use all the other required components of the CFB (ie. the mark VII vipers, civvies have to be escorted, new nuke rules), but if not, I suppose it could still work, but you'd be playtesting this and pioneering the results for the rest of us.

bholmes4 wrote:
4. Assuming I add just the Pegasus and CFB, will the game be too easy for the humans? Do we need Treachery cards for instance to balance things in this setup?
IMO, adding CFB makes things harder for the humans... say high level. Peggy makes things easier for the humans... medium level. Brown makes things... I'm gonna say harder, but at a med. low level for the humans, so I think you should be fine there.

Again, I'm a purist, and if I'm gonna explain to certain people what variants we're using and what got left out, I'd rather just teach 'em that anyways.


EDIT: mismatched tags; added emoticon; clarifications
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ackmondual
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bholmes4 wrote:
What I ultimately want is to add all the components I intend to use to my base game and never open the expansions again. A huge thanks in advance to anyone that can help me. I hate seeing the expansions basically unplayed after I was so excited to try them out.


It's a lengthy list.... takes 15 to 30 minutes to explain everything, depending on how brief or detailed you want to be. However, that's pretty much all there is to it.

Some of this is simplied, while others go into a bit more detail

Pegasus

PEGGY
1) Pay a card to travel to or from Peggy
2) anytime Galactica gets damaged, curr player can choose Peggy instead

SKILL CARDS (EXISTING COLORS)
1) 5 new skill cards per color, with 2 new types per color
2) Movement
3) Reckless interrupts

SKILL CARDS (TREACHERY)
1) Only (revealed) cylons can use text effects
2) Movement
3) 2 brown cards gets added to Destiny
4) Reckless Skill Check in tandem with Reckless interrupts

QCARDS
1) 9 new ones
2) notable ones include Civilian Self Defense, Consult The Oracle, and Execute Prisoner
3) 10 card hand limit enforced at the end of each player's turn

DESTINATION CARDS
1) there's a 0-distance one, but in actuality, it's 1-3 (since the 0-distance one instructs you to IMMEDIATELY draw and resolve new destination card)

CHARS
1) 4 new ones... they have to be made available, but do NOT have to be choosen
2) Errata on Kat's weakness

REVEAL POWERS
1) some unconventional one invovling Treachery
2) The Brig and Sickbay reveal powers only work on targets on Gal.*, the "Galactica = Peggy" rule is only in terms of when Gal. takes damage!
3) damage one, curr player picks between Peggy and Gal. tokens, while the revealer picks the ones to resolve.

* You can't send someone from Brig to Sickbay


CYLONS
1) New overlay...
2) note that Ress. Ship location is now a hazard location, and you only draw 1 card while on there, like with Sickbay.
3) Human Fleet is completely revamped -- infiltration is only for Cylon Leaders/Sympathetic Cylons
4) crisis cards Caprica no longer ignores jump icons that were in the bottom right corner

5) handoff of loyalty cards is automatic when you reveal (even if you got executed), and only happens if distance is 6 or less
6) draw 2 cards, but they now must be of different colors!

EXECUTIONS
1) if cylon, reveal only 1 cylon card! Then pass all remaining if distance is 6 or less! Go to Ress. Ship location, do not collect super crisis card
2) If human, reveal ALL loyalty cards. -1 Morale, pick new char (consult Peg rulebook on any char-specific, special rules here), and reassign any titles that your old char had
3) discard all skill cards

Exodus general core

SKILL CARDS
1) 0-strength say "skill check" and work by playing them INTO the skill check (contrary to what you were taught in the previous 2 sets), but only 1 of each type gets resolved... iow, they do NOT stack (e.g. 2 Iron Wills and 2 Protect The Fleets means you do each of them only once!). It triggers no matter how it got played in (e.g. from a human player, from a CL, from a revealed cylon, from Destiny, and whether or not IC was in play, etc.)
2) Crisis cards with the Consequence mehchanic (the symbol with the circle + 3 dots + 3 "hash lines"
) are are triggered by these 0-str skill cards which also have the same matching symbol next to the str of the card!
3) Only one 6-str per deck
4) reminder that locations are spots on the board for Pol. Prowess!
5) SoE gives revealed cylons a move or action too!
6) Best Of The Best gets capped at 1 - 8 (as per the FAQ, any roll above 8 gets capped down to 8 AFTER die modifiers. Any roll below 1 gets brought back up to 1 again AFTER die modifiers)
7) There's a 3rd nuke token, but the admiral still starts off with 2. Components limitation applies here when trying to get a 4th nuke token via Build Nuke

QCARDS
1) a whooping 3 new ones!
3) 10 card hand limit enforced at the end of each player's turn

DESTINATION CARDS
1) all of them eat up at least 1 fuel

CRISIS CARDS
1) Crisis cards with the Consequence mehchanic (the symbol with the circle + 3 dots + 3 "hash lines"
) are are triggered by any skill cards with that symbol! Currently, they include these 0-str skill cards (which also have the same matching symbol next to the str of the card), and the Treachery skill cards from Pegasus that say Reckless Skill Check in bold letters.
2) There are 4 different possible results with these types crisis card...
Pass and do NOT trigger the Consequence effect
Fail and do NOT trigger the Consequence effect
Pass and TRIGGER the Consequence effect
Fail and TRIGGER the Consequence effect


CHARS
1) 4 new ones... they have to be made available, but do NOT have to be choosen
2) Tory's weakness only triggers specifically on crisis cards that say "Current Player Chooses...", NOT "President/Admiral/CAG Chooses" crisis cards!
3) Gaeta's special can be invoked in addition to Helo's special
4) Anders' weakness does not prohibit him from drawing the initial 3 "seed" skill cards

REVEAL POWERS
1) pretty straightforward here...

CYLONS
1) crisis cards Caprica no longer ignores jump icons that were in the bottom right corner
2) draw 2 cards, but they now must be of different colors!

EXECUTIONS
1) Loyalty deck now has +1 YANAC card
2) if cylon, reveal only 1 cylon card! If also playing with Pegasus, then see Peg section above for handoff of loyalty cards. Otherwise, follow base game rules concerning loyalty card handoff. Go to Ress. Ship location, do not collect super crisis card
3) If human, reveal ALL loyalty cards. -1 Morale, pick new char (note Exo rulebook on char-specific special rules), and reassign any titles that your old char had. Shuffle one YANAC card into the loyalty deck, then give that player a new loyalty card from the deck
4) discard all skill cards

Exodus Conflicted Loyalties
GENERAL
1) Unlike the traditional loyalty cards, there's no set # of these to use in conjunction with plain/vanilla YANAC (e.g. all YANAC from base and Exo, vs. less of them for higher odds of a Confl. Loy. showing up)
2) can play with FF, PG, or mix and match
3) all say YANAC
4) if people care about the thematic logic between being a FF and still on the human team, then the rulebook covers that (page 10 or 11 IIRC)
5) follow secrecy rules here, be vague without hinting exactly what you have, nor telling so

FF
1) 5 total
2) top half and bottom half
3) bottom half of all 5 cards are identidal, triggers when u reveal due to any execution
4) top half happens when the FF is examined
5) for 4 of them, it gets reshuffled back after applying the bad text stuff!
6) for the 5th one, it's special b/c when the card holder gets executed, there's a "top half part 1" (holder gets kiled) and a "top half part 2" (each human randomly discards 2 skill cards)
7) if people are concerned about the possible FF effects that might hit them, others, and/or the group, they're.... activate raiders, heavies, basestars; dam. Gal. twice; examiner is Brigged; Examiner is executed; holder is executed + all others discard 2 random skill cards.

PG
1) 8 total
2) some neurotic need for characters to do stuff
3) at game's end revealed cylon with unrevealed PG = no effect
4) At game's end unrevealed cylons or humans with unrevealed PG = lose the resource indicated, which can cause humans to lose!
5) It's on the card, but Revealing a PG takes an action! Everyone, including yours truly, forgets this!
6) the condition of the card still has to be true for you to reveal (e.g. if the president gets out of the Brig when it gets to your turn, then you can't reveal it)
7) it's also on the card, but if distance is 6 or less, a YANAC is shuffled into the loyalty deck and you get a new card from there
8) yet again, if distance is 7+, no new loyalty card for u
9) again, secrecy rules apply here like with FF

Exodus CFB
1) Remove CAC from crisis deck (if you want to count "negatively", just see if you have 10 CAC excluding the super crisis one {Massive Assault}, and 3 more CAC if you also have Pegasus, also excluding the super crisis one {Lured Into A Trap}), but add in "CAG Chooses..." ones
2) remove 2 mark II vipers, but add 4 mark VII vipers into damaged vipers box. When used, these move up to 2 adjacent space sectors per move, and get damaged on 6-7 instead, but still destroyed on 8.
3) A new admiral card is to be used for the CFB module. Nukes can now target space sectors, and 8 destroys EVERYTHING in that sector!
4) Civvies are no longer cleared when you jump. They stay put! You need viper activations (manned or unmanned) to safely remove them from the board
5) cylon ships go to the corresponding sector on the CFB
6) CFB is thematically some staging area for the cylon ships
7) extra 4 raiders in supply
8) Whenever a cylon ships icon is resolved, but the appropriate cylon ships are NOT on the MGB, then stuff happens on the CFB (roll die place the appropriate cylon ship on the appropriate #-ed sector on the CFB, k, and +1 on the Pursuit track)
9) 2 spots on the Pursuit track call for CAG to place Civvies
10) BB can be used by cylons, no need to discard to move there. Must pick 2 different options, and then resolve them 1 by 1. Reminder that 9 raiders on MGB = auto-damage if using the "roll for damage" option.
11) CAG title card gets first licks by Pilots. It's a military title, so a char with CAG that gets Brigged will lose it just like admiral title, where you would then follow CAG line of succession.
12) CAG Chooses crisis cards; placing civvy ships when instructed by game effects; and the special power on the CAG title card are what it's about.



And then there are the options/modules, but you get the idea




EDIT: added Confl. Loy.
EDIT2: addition in Peg - Cylon - #3
addition in Peg - Executions - #2
addition in Exo - Executions - #3
addition in Exodus general core - skill cards - #1
added Exodus Confl. Loy. - PG - #9
added CFB section
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Mattias Elfström
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Have a look at the combined rulebook on the files page (http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/68433/battlestar-galactica...). It simplifies the use of all components from both expansions by eliminating all replaced rules and putting everything in one place.

Using the combined rulebook you should be able to use all parts of the expansions that you like with minimum hassle :-)
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Robert Stewart
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ackmondual wrote:
Pegasus
CYLONS
5) handoff of loyalty cards is automatic when you reveal (even if you got executed), and only happens if distance is 6 or less

EXECUTIONS
1) if cylon, reveal only 1 cylon card! Then pass all remaining if distance is 6 or less! Go to Ress. Ship location, do not collect super crisis card

Exodus
EXECUTIONS
2) if cylon, reveal only 1 cylon card! Then pass all remaining if distance is 6 or less! Go to Ress. Ship location, do not collect super crisis card


Nitpicking time:

Pegasus rulebook:
Quote:
Handing off Excess Loyalty Cards
Due to the revised “Resurrection Ship” Cylon location, the way
Cylon players are able to give players face down Loyalty Cards
has changed as follows.
• Revealing a Loyalty Card: When a Cylon player reveals
himself, he looks at all of his facedown Loyalty Cards and
gives them to one human player of his choice (do this
before the End Turn step of the revealing process).
• Sleeper Phase: When a Cylon player receives Loyalty
Cards during the Sleeper Agent phase, he looks at all of
his facedown Loyalty Cards and gives them to one human
player of his choice.
If the Cylon player receives a “You Are Sympathizer” or a
“You Are a Sympathetic Cylon” card, he does not reveal it.
Instead, the human player he passes it to must immediately
reveal this Loyalty Card as if it had been dealt to him.


No mention of a distance limit on handing off spare loyalty cards. It's possible there's another rule later that overrides/clarifies that, but I've not been able to find it.


Also, with Exodus, the automatic handoff only happens if you're combining it with Pegasus (specifically the replacement Cylon locations) - Exodus without Pegasus, you can only hand over spare loyalty cards when you use the Resurrection Ship action, just like with only the base game.
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ackmondual
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rmsgrey wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Pegasus
CYLONS
5) handoff of loyalty cards is automatic when you reveal (even if you got executed), and only happens if distance is 6 or less

EXECUTIONS
1) if cylon, reveal only 1 cylon card! Then pass all remaining if distance is 6 or less! Go to Ress. Ship location, do not collect super crisis card

Exodus
EXECUTIONS
2) if cylon, reveal only 1 cylon card! Then pass all remaining if distance is 6 or less! Go to Ress. Ship location, do not collect super crisis card


Nitpicking time:

Pegasus rulebook:
Quote:
Handing off Excess Loyalty Cards
Due to the revised “Resurrection Ship” Cylon location, the way
Cylon players are able to give players face down Loyalty Cards
has changed as follows.
• Revealing a Loyalty Card: When a Cylon player reveals
himself, he looks at all of his facedown Loyalty Cards and
gives them to one human player of his choice (do this
before the End Turn step of the revealing process).
• Sleeper Phase: When a Cylon player receives Loyalty
Cards during the Sleeper Agent phase, he looks at all of
his facedown Loyalty Cards and gives them to one human
player of his choice.
If the Cylon player receives a “You Are Sympathizer” or a
“You Are a Sympathetic Cylon” card, he does not reveal it.
Instead, the human player he passes it to must immediately
reveal this Loyalty Card as if it had been dealt to him.


No mention of a distance limit on handing off spare loyalty cards. It's possible there's another rule later that overrides/clarifies that, but I've not been able to find it.


Also, with Exodus, the automatic handoff only happens if you're combining it with Pegasus (specifically the replacement Cylon locations) - Exodus without Pegasus, you can only hand over spare loyalty cards when you use the Resurrection Ship action, just like with only the base game.
Counter-nitpicking time!

It's in the FAQ. Make sure you've got the updated one, b/c this may not appear until the 4th or 5th edition of it.

It makes sense that something like this would be in there. It'd be too extreme to be able to turn someone into a cylon at 8 distance and just one turn away from a human win
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm...
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Battlestar_Gal...
Quote:
Pegasus Errata & FAQ
The following questions and errata refer specifically to the Pegasus Expansion.
Errata
............
............
Handing Off Excess Loyalty Cards
Cylons may only hand off excess loyalty cards if Galactica has traveled six or less distance.


As for Exodus, I C&P-ed that without checking, so it's been corrected.
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Pieter
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I want to give one other opinion: if you still haven't got the rules of the base game sorted out, clearly there is still a lot of fun that you can get from that. Why add anything (except for the plastic basestars)? The expansions do not necessarily increase the fun. Adding just the Pegasus ship is easy, but makes the game a lot easier for the humans; if you add more from Pegasus, you will very quickly (probably immediately) reach the point where you seem to feel that the game got too complicated. So, just skip all of it. Definitely skip Exodus, because all things Exodus are quite complicated; it took several games for me to suss out the CFB, and I still have to look in the rulebook to make no mistakes (I seldom play it, though).
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Brandon Holmes
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ackmondual wrote:
IMO, adding CFB makes things harder for the humans... say high level. Peggy makes things easier for the humans... medium level. Brown makes things... I'm gonna say harder, but at a med. low level for the humans, so I think you should be fine there.


I want to sit down and try some of these suggestions solo soon but with the holidays, a wife and a baby this could take awhile. Of the new responses this stuck out though.

So does this suggest if I add CFB and Peggy it would actually favour the cylons? Thus if I don't add Treachery (I would prefer not to add them at this point) it would actually help balance things?

 
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bholmes4 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
IMO, adding CFB makes things harder for the humans... say high level. Peggy makes things easier for the humans... medium level. Brown makes things... I'm gonna say harder, but at a med. low level for the humans, so I think you should be fine there.


I want to sit down and try some of these suggestions solo soon but with the holidays, a wife and a baby this could take awhile. Of the new responses this stuck out though.

So does this suggest if I add CFB and Peggy it would actually favour the cylons? Thus if I don't add Treachery (I would prefer not to add them at this point) it would actually help balance things?

Hmmm, I need to rethink this...... if we were to assign arbitrary values....

Peggy is still less than CFB, but whereas Peggy adds +4, CFB probably adds -5? so they sorta even each other out?

The only thing on Peggy that cylons can use with adequate reliability is Airlock. Executing the right human at the right time can cause a dearth of skill cards, failed skill checks, lost resources and other things, and other woes from lost special abilities and OPG.

ER is sorta "meta-gamey" where you have a more legit excuse to not contribute to a skill check if you have fewer or NO cards left, but much like the use of ER itself where you don't know if you'll need the "virtual jump icon", you won't know out of the blue if this stunt will work

Peg CIC can be used to send yourself or another char on Peggy to Sickbay, while Main Batteries can be used to hit friendlies... a viper protecting civvies or a civvy itself. However, it's risky for the unrevealed cylon to have to rely on a low roll, and SP can wreck such plans.

The only pros for the human with CFB is it creates predictability... you know or can try to anticipate what cylons will try to do. With CACs (Cylon Attack Cards)... you can get 4 in a row, or none for a long time. Otherwise, keeping up escorting them, and dealing with BB (Basestar Bridge) still keeps more pressure than the new mark VIIs relieve.

.

Long story short, I'd say try using Peggy + CFB, but leave out Treachery and see how that works out. Despite the experience of some of the vets here, it is hard to pinpoint how certain games would've gone without Treachery, given recalling specific game states and the swing of luck. On one hand, Treachery is almost always negative, but OTOH, playing AAC to make them positive, or using Treachery towards Airlock 12YPT where brown is already positive turns the tables. Brown is typically negative again, but in a parellel universe, a red5 comes out instead of the brown3 and you now failed the check instead of passing it.
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Klaus
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My general recommendation is to use the Investigative Committees from Pegasus, the Cylon locations overlay, plastic basestars, and various rule changes (10 Quorum card limit, passing off loyalty cards when you reveal.)

That will give you a great base game experience, and once playing the game this way grows stale, you can use more elements from the expansions.
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Tim Sansone
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Great summary by ackmondual. Just excellent really. Nice way to help people understand the details and specifics.

I do have a couple questions for clarification, and a comment or two below.

ackmondual wrote:


DESTINATION CARDS
1) there's a 0-distance one, but in actuality, 1-3


When you say, "but in actuality, 1-3," could you clarify?

ackmondual wrote:


CHARS
* * *
2) Errata on Kat's weakness


Refresh my recollection - was this error fixed on subsequent reprints? I'm trying to remember what the error was.

ackmondual wrote:

REVEAL POWERS
* * *
2) The Brig and Sickbay reveal powers only work on targets on Gal.*, the "Galactica = Peggy" rule is only in terms of when Gal. takes damage!
* * *

* You can't send someone from Brig to Sickbay


I've seen this mechanic mentioned before in another thread, but am not sure what is involved here. Are you saying that if you have the Cylon card that says "brig someone" or "put someone in sickbay," you can only put someone who is physically located on Galactica at that time in the brig or sickbay, as the case may be?

ackmondual wrote:

3) damage one, curr player picks between Peggy and Gal. tokens, while the revealer picks the ones to resolve.


Would this issue only arise if an unrevealed Cylon receives an Executive Order and reveals as one of his actions? This rule makes sense; I just can't remember if it's in the FAQ, UFAQ, or elsewhere.

ackmondual wrote:

Exodus general core

SKILL CARDS
* * *
5) BotB gets capped at 1 - 8


I can't remember what BotB is. It's probably obvious but I'm drawing a blank.

ackmondual wrote:

CYLONS
1) crisis cards Caprica no longer ignores jump icons that were in the bottom right corner


This is one that is easy to forget when playing base + Exodus without the Cylon locations overlay! I'm tempted to take white-out to my separate base + Exodus set that I use!

ackmondual wrote:

Exodus Conflicted Loyalties
GENERAL
1) Unlike the traditional loyalty cards, there's no set # of these to use in conjunction with plain/vanilla YANAC (e.g. all YANAC from base and Exo, vs. less of them for higher odds of a Confl. Loy. showing up)


I recall there has been discussion about whether to include the 1 extra YANAC card from Pegasus, with some saying no because the Exodus rules say to add only the base YANAC cards plus the Exodus YANAC cards (and nothing is said in the Pegasus + Exodus section of the Exodus rulebook), versus those who say go ahead and add the 1 extra card because the humans can always use a little help, and the extra card dilutes the FF & PG a bit.

ackmondual wrote:

PG
7) it's also on the card, but if distance is 6 or less, a YANAC is shuffled into the loyalty deck and you get a new card from there


In practice, do most people either never reveal their PG, or reveal it ONLY after 7+ distance? It just seems the risk of causing another Cylon to appear is too great (unless the humans are tanking and you really WANT to switch teams).
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guestid1250 wrote:
Great summary by ackmondual. Just excellent really. Nice way to help people understand the details and specifics.
Thanks! I may end up covering most of the bullet points, but it'll have to be in increments. It's always a struggle to balance details vs. keeping things brief.


guestid1250 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:


DESTINATION CARDS
1) there's a 0-distance one, but in actuality, 1-3


When you say, "but in actuality, 1-3," could you clarify?
Misjump is 0-distance, but instructs you to draw and destroy 2 civvies and immediately draw a new Destination card. That new Dest. card means you'll jump at 1 - 3 distance for sure.

guestid1250 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:


CHARS
* * *
2) Errata on Kat's weakness


Refresh my recollection - was this error fixed on subsequent reprints? I'm trying to remember what the error was.
Hmmm, AFAIK, Pegasus never got a reprint. It's only the base game that got reprinted ("Sci Fi" changed to "SyFy", and XOs saying "only 1 XO per turn"... don't even know if the other errata got implemented, such as the incorrect nuke rolls on the admiral card). The errata is Kat's weakness should trigger at the end of her action step, NOT Movement step.

guestid1250 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:

REVEAL POWERS
* * *
2) The Brig and Sickbay reveal powers only work on targets on Gal.*, the "Galactica = Peggy" rule is only in terms of when Gal. takes damage!
* * *

* You can't send someone from Brig to Sickbay


I've seen this mechanic mentioned before in another thread, but am not sure what is involved here. Are you saying that if you have the Cylon card that says "brig someone" or "put someone in sickbay," you can only put someone who is physically located on Galactica at that time in the brig or sickbay, as the case may be?
Correct. For example, if I reveal with the Sickbay power and Apollo's in space, Starbuck's in the Brig, Roslin's at President's Office, and Cain's in Pegasus CIC, then I've got no legit targets... No1's on Galactidca (you can't move a char from Brig to SIckbay if that text effect shows up as per the FAQ). I just reveal without using my power.

guestid1250 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:

3) damage one, curr player picks between Peggy and Gal. tokens, while the revealer picks the ones to resolve.


Would this issue only arise if an unrevealed Cylon receives an Executive Order and reveals as one of his actions? This rule makes sense; I just can't remember if it's in the FAQ, UFAQ, or elsewhere.

Yes. Apollo's special is also like XO-ing him since it gives him an action. In Exodus, it could also happen from State Of Emergency

guestid1250 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:

Exodus general core

SKILL CARDS
* * *
5) BotB gets capped at 1 - 8


I can't remember what BotB is. It's probably obvious but I'm drawing a blank.


It's one of the 2 cases (both from Exodus) where it'd make a difference if you rolled 0, 9, 10, or 11. Many other cases, if you roll 8 or 8+, they're the same thing.



guestid1250 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:

CYLONS
1) crisis cards Caprica no longer ignores jump icons that were in the bottom right corner


This is one that is easy to forget when playing base + Exodus without the Cylon locations overlay! I'm tempted to take white-out to my separate base + Exodus set that I use!
it's on the board/overlay, but few people read the text on the board these days

WIth Exo but no Peg, I tell everyone so that they can help remidn the group

guestid1250 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:

Exodus Conflicted Loyalties
GENERAL
1) Unlike the traditional loyalty cards, there's no set # of these to use in conjunction with plain/vanilla YANAC (e.g. all YANAC from base and Exo, vs. less of them for higher odds of a Confl. Loy. showing up)


I recall there has been discussion about whether to include the 1 extra YANAC card from Pegasus, with some saying no because the Exodus rules say to add only the base YANAC cards plus the Exodus YANAC cards (and nothing is said in the Pegasus + Exodus section of the Exodus rulebook), versus those who say go ahead and add the 1 extra card because the humans can always use a little help, and the extra card dilutes the FF & PG a bit.
I try to remember to leave out the Pegasus YANAC card, but if it wasn't done, I won't stress over it.

guestid1250 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:

PG
7) it's also on the card, but if distance is 6 or less, a YANAC is shuffled into the loyalty deck and you get a new card from there


In practice, do most people either never reveal their PG, or reveal it ONLY after 7+ distance? It just seems the risk of causing another Cylon to appear is too great (unless the humans are tanking and you really WANT to switch teams).
they tend to not reveal b/c using an action can be too much, or the condition hasn't been met yet. Timing it to reveal PGs at 7+ distance can be difficult too... since the proverbial S@#$ hits the fan at that point in the game, you need to use actions to save your skin, so PGs become low priority, even if the resource lost can kill you in the end... well, if it WILL likely kill you, then you may bite the bullet and use an action to reveal it. Also, execution will cause a human PG holder to reveal them (they are considered YANAC/human cards), thus, circumventing having to reveal them the normal way

When you don't have to draw a new loyalty card, it's nice to be a revealed human cool And yeah, I've seen people try to metagame that into becoming a cylon DOesn't always work out, but amsuing none of the less.
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Robert Stewart
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Last game I played with Personal Goals in, President Baltar, as the first player, spent his first turn moving to the Admiral's Quarters and arresting himself. He then spent his second turn revealing his Personal Goal (President in the Brig) to save 1 food, and his third turn breaking out.

Humans eventually lost that game when I, playing as Cavil, used my once-per-game to advance my metallic minion three spaces to the end of the boarding track.

My general view of Personal Goals is that it's probably worth completing the Fuel goals if you get the chance, but the other resources aren't worth worrying about unless they're obviously under threat - or there's a window with nothing obviously needing doing. It's definitely not worth devoting more than one action to it, though I'd be comfortable with taking the option that sets up a PG when there's an otherwise close choice to be made (for example, using Requested Resignation to get the President in the Brig rather than letting the Admiral double up on titles, or discarding skill cards).
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rmsgrey wrote:
Last game I played with Personal Goals in, President Baltar, as the first player, spent his first turn moving to the Admiral's Quarters and arresting himself. He then spent his second turn revealing his Personal Goal (President in the Brig) to save 1 food, and his third turn breaking out.


I feel like this was only good because he was Baltar. Apart from being a good story.

On-topic, I like using Exodus cards as a supplement to the base game. I like the variety they provide, more than the Pegasus cards. I also think that the Consequence mechanic is easier to remember than the Reckless mechanic. First, the timing is better, because it happens all at once. Second, the zero makes it clear that something else is happening, because zero does nothing by itself. You might give that a try.
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hybridfive wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
Last game I played with Personal Goals in, President Baltar, as the first player, spent his first turn moving to the Admiral's Quarters and arresting himself. He then spent his second turn revealing his Personal Goal (President in the Brig) to save 1 food, and his third turn breaking out.


I feel like this was only good because he was Baltar. Apart from being a good story.

On-topic, I like using Exodus cards as a supplement to the base game. I like the variety they provide, more than the Pegasus cards. I also think that the Consequence mechanic is easier to remember than the Reckless mechanic. First, the timing is better, because it happens all at once. Second, the zero makes it clear that something else is happening, because zero does nothing by itself. You might give that a try.
Did you mean the "Skill Check" instead... The 0-str skill cards that trigger various text effects? This is as opposed to the consequence mechanic that gets triggered when that funky icon with the circle+3 dots+3 has mark appears on a skill card. The latter is nice too, but with only 5 crisis cards and 1 super crisis card that has them, they really do come out way too infrequently.

"Consequence" mechanic
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Tim Sansone
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Ah, are there only 5 Crisis cards and 1 Super Crisis card containing a consequence icon? I didn't realize there are so few in the deck.
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Mindy G
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Yup.
 
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Robert
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Thanks a lot Brandon for your generosity!
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