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Subject: secret guilds? rss

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t diddy

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Are guilds supposed to be secret, we have been choosing random guilds but then inserting them into the age 3 deck without showing them to anyone. Are they supposed to be secret?
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Chad Miller
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Stigler
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Yes, they are unknown to everyone. Showing them before putting them in the deck might be a reasonable variant, and I have actually considered it, but the way you're doing it according to the rules.
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Josh
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Part of the point (I think) is that there's some unexpected element in Age III. If you know what the guilds are, then you could theoretically plan ahead hoping that you got a specific guild.
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Jay Reigns
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jozxyqk wrote:
Part of the point (I think) is that there's some unexpected element in Age III. If you know what the guilds are, then you could theoretically plan ahead hoping that you got a specific guild.


Exactly. If you know the Spies guild is coming, you won't want to stock up on military because the guy sitting next to you might get it, same kind of thing with most guilds. Having an unknown element almost encourages you to build evenly as to not give your opponents an advantage later.
 
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Todd
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Warren
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I also agree, I think you could show them at the start but it would make people treat some cards as poison and some as gold in prep. for the guilds that are coming and you may not like how the games plays that way.
 
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Chad Miller
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If any one person is building so many military cards that spies' guild isn't the worst in the game, either you're playing Leaders or sitting next to someone who doesn't know when to give up on an arms race.

In general, I think forcing everyone into "general" strategies that can't adapt to the guilds in play (because it's too late) cancels out most of the reasons that a random factor can be anything but a luck factor. This particularly becomes true with expansions, where the guilds that can be in play have a large amount of variance, but the various leaders, cities and wonders force you to play high-variance strategies to have a shot at winning. In the more extreme cases it really does feel like you play two rounds only to find out you had no chance from the start.

Really, out of all the "unknown setup" ideas, I think it goes Cities > Guilds > Leaders. Leaders come first and inform your strategy, but their effect is so strong that they dictate the entire game and pretty much invalidate the endgame unless Cities is also involved. Guilds come too late to adjust to them and so are just an endgame die roll most of the time. Cities force strategy changes without completely taking over the game (and that is why I regard it as the best expansion so far)
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Tables
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SlebRittie wrote:
If any one person is building so many military cards that spies' guild isn't the worst in the game, either you're playing Leaders or sitting next to someone who doesn't know when to give up on an arms race.


Two people building four military cards each is unreasonable ? Spies guild is one of the most consistent guilds, you're almost always going to get about 5-8 points from it, but rarely any more than that.

I'd say the guild for leaders on each side is usually worst. Rarely worth more than 6 points.
 
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Oscar Iglesias
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I Eat Tables wrote:

I'd say the guild for leaders on each side is usually worst. Rarely worth more than 6 points.


Extra leaders from Rome does not count. So... when will you get more than 6 points?
 
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Jay Reigns
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Shkar wrote:
I Eat Tables wrote:

I'd say the guild for leaders on each side is usually worst. Rarely worth more than 6 points.


Extra leaders from Rome does not count. So... when will you get more than 6 points?


Extra leaders from Rome don't count? That's not in the rulebook...
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Chad Miller
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I Eat Tables wrote:
Two people building four military cards each is unreasonable ?


Four military cards usually means I'm losing. In my experience I'm far more likely to win with 0. I can't remember the last time I saw a Spies' Guild that was worth more than 5 points (subpar for Age III). After all, the correct amount of military is barely enough to beat/tie one opponent, barely enough to beat/tie two opponents, or zero, and zero becomes more attractive the more aggressive your neighbors get. True, not everyone will or should neglect their military but compare to guilds like the blue one where you're targeting a card color that is actually correct to hoard.
 
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Matt Shields
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PhoenixPez wrote:
Shkar wrote:
I Eat Tables wrote:

I'd say the guild for leaders on each side is usually worst. Rarely worth more than 6 points.


Extra leaders from Rome does not count. So... when will you get more than 6 points?


Extra leaders from Rome don't count? That's not in the rulebook...


Uh, yeah, why wouldn't the extra leaders from Rome count? I've never heard of that rule....
 
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