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Descent: The Road to Legend» Forums » General

Subject: About the final battle rules rss

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Shawn Burk
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So I noticed the difference between the RtL and SoB final battle rules. On one hand, the RtL rules seem to favor the heroes:

Quote:
2. Each hero’s maximum wounds are increased by +1 for every 2 conquest tokens the heroes collected since entering the Overlord’s Keep.
3. The Avatar’s maximum wounds are increased by +2 for every conquest token the overlord scored since the heroes entered the Overlord’s Keep.


While SoB seems to split more evenly:
Quote:
2. Add the conquest tokens that the heroes have collected since entering the Overlord’s Keep to their previous total conquest tokens. Each hero’s maximum wounds are increased by +1 for every 4 conquest tokens the heroes have collected since the beginning of the campaign. Each hero is then restored to full health and fatigue, and their ship is restored to full wounds (if it is used for the battle).
3. Add the conquest tokens that the overlord has gained since the heroes entered the Overlord’s Keep to his previous total conquest tokens. The Avatar’s maximum wounds are increased by +2 for every conquest token the overlord has collected since the start of the campaign.


Which do you prefer?
 
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Sebastian D.
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So the Heroes:OL-ratio in Rtl is 1:4, while in SoB it is 1:8. I don't know if I would call one of these "favoring the heroes" but of course the biggest difference is between "during OL keep" (RtL) or "during whole campaign" (SoB). With an even split of 300:300 in SoB that would mean 75:600 additional health. I think they tried that to make the final battle a little longer (Say +40 health in RtL didn't last beyond the first turn, maybe the second. +600 health should let the avatar see a couple more turns than that.)
I know that in my game I gained exactly zero CT in the final keep in RtL so I certainly would've liked to get it from the whole campaign ;-).
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Retired Hurt

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Of course doubling the OL's hp ratio changes a lot. The fact that the battle lasts longer also favors the OL, because when a hero has been killed the balance shifts a lot. The intervention of a big-hitting creature in The Red Queen also has an impact. Notice that in RtL wounded heroes remain wounded, which isn't the case in SoB.

Notice that the dynamics of the OL's keep are different from normal dungeons. You aren't compelled to kill a hero outright. You may grind them all down and kill them when possible, because they may no more heal in town. Also, if you destroy a thingie like the Ghost Armor, they won't get it back. For this reason, I'm a bit surprised that the heroes didn't suffer at least some deaths. It would mean that they'd solve most levels in one round, which isn't easy even at that moment of the game - especially the last level, which is difficult to go through (very difficult, for some like the Count). And in RtL ... you don't mean that the heroes can kill 2 Major and two plain Diamond Demons and several Gold Nagi in one round, do you ? (the Demon Lord's keep : we needed 5 rounds and lost 3 lives even with a Rapid Firing archer)

But of course even beginning the final combat with 100+ hp, as our OL did, would not be near enough. Only the Sorcerer King, with his extra 100 hp, surge cancellation, the preliminary mirror fighting and big damage dealing, stands any chance.

Now I would be in favor of using the SoB rule in RtL, but it would cause a problem with the armor incrementing of the Titan. Other OLs don't have such evolving skills.
 
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BTW, is it true that the final SoB fight won't last more than 4 rounds ?

I'll do some math. That's what I'm good at. I'm the Mistress of Serpents. I expect to have about 650 hp when the final battle begins. Fighters and Magic-Users are expected to deal about 24 damage in one shot. Archers about 20. I have AC 8. The fighter shots twice, the archer twice, one MU four times (Koll's Mark), the other thrice (Quick Casting).
From their 11 shots, 3 will fail on average (natural Xs, minus Born to the Bow, plus Hypnotism) . The remaining 8 are enough to kill the Sorcerer and deal 32 damage on the Naga.
Then, on each subsequent round, they'll deal about 120 damage to the avatar. On rounds 2 and 5 I'll get 50 hp back from skin shedding. It's close whether I will live 6 or 7 turns.

But that of course assumes that I let them get the best skills (e.g. by forgetting to close Dallak), that I don't destroy (or force the discarding of) their best weapons and enhancing items, and that I can't kill any hero with 12-14 attacks from my avatar and at least 1 from the Red Queen (about 20 damage per attack less armor), less Xs.

Reality check around next September.

NB : IIRC the Count's final level is more difficult, because one character will have to go forward without taking part to the battle.
 
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Shawn Burk
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I should clarify what I meant about favoring the heroes.

In the Keep, the heroes will be at their strongest for the campaign, ready to spend every feat and pull any trick to keep alive and keep strong for the final battle. The overlord will generally only gain CT for their deaths, and with temple heals removed from the keep, a viable OL tactic could be to let each of them come in come in with low health instead of taking kills depending on how the heroes find the dungeon. If they are still struggling with monsters, perhaps taking kills is still the way to go. If they are blitzing the last levels, softening them for the battle may still be best.

In SoB, giving the OL extra health for the overall campaign would definitely balance out more. I was going to suggest it might almost favor the Overlord, but when you see the math laid out by Merrimac its hard to imagine any wins in the final battle short of the dice playing tricks on people. That and I'm not sure what the conquest ratios look like on average for most RtL campaigns. In ours, we are almost halfway and its close to 2:1 in favor of the OL.

I guess I wondered if people ever house ruled this to use SoB for a more dramatic finish, or just let the RtL RAW end the campaign faster to move on to the next one.

That, and a little discussion on Keep tactics is something that I wonder about. Would it benefit more to go for a kill or just soften up heroes? Unless I could get a lot (and I mean a lot) of kills seems that softening is the way to go.
 
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Softening the heroes wouldn't work. They'd just kill eachother before the final battle and come back fresh.
 
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Shawn Burk
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That's a decent counter, but if they want to waste turns attacking themselves that results in CT for me anyway let them. Gives me more time to mount an offensive.
 
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Ever tried engineering a multiple hit (monsters + hero) with an AoE weapon ?
 
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Shawn Burk
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Good point, my heroes haven't gotten any AOE weapons yet to play with.
 
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Notice that all this disappears in SoB, where the heroes are given back full life (and increment for CPs gained during the campaign) and full fatigue when the final battle begins.

And of course, if you foist some Dark Relic on some hero during the final dungeon, killing the affected hero would be the only solution, as there is no more shop where to buy the Remove Curse.
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