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Subject: Some newbie questions about exodus rss

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Frank Otte
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I would call ourselves a quite experienced group of BSG players (incl. Pegasus without New-Caprica up to now). Currently I try to prepare for introducing the Exodus expansion into our group. Despite reading the unofficial and official FAQ and some threads here thoroughly, some questions persist generally and about module 1 and 3:

(1) Quorum card "Presidential Order": I assume, if you play this card as President, you could give the Admirals title to yourself?

(2) Samuel T. Anders OPG: The german translation is somewhat ambiguous, but I assume, Samuel can only "decide" about his own rolls, which must not necessarily be in his own turn?

(3) New Loyality cards: Just to be sure, if the current jump distance is 5 or 6, there is only ONE card left in the loyalitydeck, right? That means, if you fullfill a goal in this period of time, you take one more card from the YANAC-cards, shuffle only TWO cards altogether, and draw one of these two?

(4) New basestar damage token "Collateral Damage": How is Scar handled if he is amoung the raiders?

(5) New basestar damage token "Damage to Personnel": I assume with this damage, a Cylon Leader or Symathetic Cylon draws trauma tokens if and only if they are currently NOT infiltrating?

(6) Fullfilling goals (1): I assume a Sympathizer or Sympathetic Cylon or even revealed Cylon can also fullfil goals in the rare case, they have still such cards and goals which are possible to achieve for them (I don't say, that would make much sense).

(7) Fullfilling goals (2): It's not mandatory at all, for nobody, to reveal a personal goal, if he could?

(8) Execution revisited: If you are executed and you are a true human, you discard all you loyality cards and draw a new one for your new character. Where go the discarded loyality cards go to?
a) Out of the game.
b) Shuffled back to the YANAC-card-supply

(9) Sympathizer revisited: In rare case, that you have a Sympathizer or Sympathetic Cylon before the sleeper phase, what does he do with his new loyality card, he gets in the sleeper phase?
a) Passing to another player.
b) Keeping it.
c) He gets no loyality card.

(10) There can be a "late" revealed Cylon or an "early" Sympathetic Cylon which still keeps one or more secret loyality cards, while having one revealed Loyality card. If such a character is eliminated in the crossroads phase because of leading in trauma tokens, what does he do with his secret loyality cards and is it a difference if the SC is infiltrating or not?
a) Nothing (keeping them secret until the end of the game).
b) Passing them to another player.
c) Revealing all loyality cards.
d) Revealing one more loyality card

(11) If a Cylon-Leader or Sympathetic Cylon is eliminated in the crossroads phase, what happens to their plot card? I assume, they keep it secret?


 
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Joseph Cochran
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1) If the card says "another player" then you cannot give it to yourself. If it says "any player" then you can. I don't have it in front of me, but that's the general rule of thumb.

2) Anders' OPG must be on his turn as far as I know.

3) Yes, that's correct.

4) Scar is a raider. I would rule that current player decides which raiders are destroyed.

5) If infiltrating, the Leader/Sympathetic is considered a Human Player and does not draw, correct.

6) Non-Infiltrating Sympathetic Cylons and Revealed Cylons cannot use action text intended for humans, so I would rule that they cannot fulfill goals. Regardless, people on Team Cylon at game end don't flip over unfilled Personal Goals anyway, so it doesn't matter.

7) Correct, it is not mandatory for someone to take the action to fulfill a goal.

8) Loyalty cards for an Executed human remain face-up in the play area in front of that player. They're just sitting there useless. It's effectively the same thing as "out of the game."

9) The Sympathizer/Sympathetic receives his or her Loyalty Card as usual and does with it whatever the current ruleset says (if Pegasus, hand it off immediately and if not Pegasus then hold onto it).

10/11) Any player removed from the game takes all of his/her Loyalty or Agenda cards out of the game with them and doesn't reveal anything. They have no further effect on the game.
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David F
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Hermjard wrote:

(1) Quorum card "Presidential Order": I assume, if you play this card as President, you could give the Admirals title to yourself?


Yes.

Quote:
(2) Samuel T. Anders OPG: The german translation is somewhat ambiguous, but I assume, Samuel can only "decide" about his own rolls, which must not necessarily be in his own turn?


Any die roll on his turn. Same as Helo.

Quote:
(3) New Loyality cards: Just to be sure, if the current jump distance is 5 or 6, there is only ONE card left in the loyalitydeck, right? That means, if you fullfill a goal in this period of time, you take one more card from the YANAC-cards, shuffle only TWO cards altogether, and draw one of these two?


That's correct. The idea is to complete your Personal Goal late, after Distance 6, if you don't want the chance of drawing the last Loyalty Card. I've definitely tried to complete my goal early (or kill myself) and turn cylon though. :D

Quote:
(4) New basestar damage token "Collateral Damage": How is Scar handled if he is amoung the raiders?


Sounds like a very rare occurrence. I expect Current Player can choose how to kill the raiders.

Quote:
(5) New basestar damage token "Damage to Personnel": I assume with this damage, a Cylon Leader or Symathetic Cylon draws trauma tokens if and only if they are currently NOT infiltrating?


Correct.

Quote:
(6) Fullfilling goals (1): I assume a Sympathizer or Sympathetic Cylon or even revealed Cylon can also fullfil goals in the rare case, they have still such cards and goals which are possible to achieve for them (I don't say, that would make much sense).


No, Sympathizer, Sympathetic Cylon and revealed Cylons give their Loyalty Cards (which might be Personal Goals) away when they reveal.

Quote:
(7) Fullfilling goals (2): It's not mandatory at all, for nobody, to reveal a personal goal, if he could?


Not mandatory. In fact, completing a Personal Goal is generally a waste of an action, and is only useful later on when you know that if you don't complete your goal, you will lose (e.g. Fuel at 1 and you have a Fuel goal).

Quote:
(8) Execution revisited: If you are executed and you are a true human, you discard all you loyality cards and draw a new one for your new character. Where go the discarded loyality cards go to?
a) Out of the game.
b) Shuffled back to the YANAC-card-supply


Out of the game.

Quote:
(9) Sympathizer revisited: In rare case, that you have a Sympathizer or Sympathetic Cylon before the sleeper phase, what does he do with his new loyality card, he gets in the sleeper phase?
a) Passing to another player.
b) Keeping it.
c) He gets no loyality card.


It's either a) or c). Even if it's c), I would still play it as a) since c) could really suck (any game with a missing Cylon can be degenerate).

Quote:
(10) There can be a "late" revealed Cylon or an "early" Sympathetic Cylon which still keeps one or more secret loyality cards, while having one revealed Loyality card. If such a character is eliminated in the crossroads phase because of leading in trauma tokens, what does he do with his secret loyality cards and is it a difference if the SC is infiltrating or not?
a) Nothing (keeping them secret until the end of the game).
b) Passing them to another player.
c) Revealing all loyality cards.
d) Revealing one more loyality card


Sympathetic Cylons only have Agenda Cards, no Loyalty Cards, so it doesn't apply to them. Cylon would pass his other Loyalty Cards to another player, per a regular execution. Cylon would keep the other Loyalty Cards secret. Can't pass them off since it's past Distance 6.

Quote:
(11) If a Cylon-Leader or Sympathetic Cylon is eliminated in the crossroads phase, what happens to their plot card? I assume, they keep it secret?


Yes, keep it secret.
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Frank Otte
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Quote:
Sympathetic Cylons only have Agenda Cards, no Loyalty Cards, so it doesn't apply to them. Cylon would keep the other Loyalty Cards secret. Can't pass them off since it's past Distance 6.


The unofficial FAQ clearly states a case, where a Sympathetic Cylon has unrevealed Loyality cards, namely, if you become Sympathetic Cylon at jump distance 7+, at which you are not allowed anymore to pass your left over Loyality cards.

Yes, I thought about jump distance 7+, too, but then I remembered, that in the sleeper phase the jump distance is irrelevant for passing loyality cards (even if jumping directly from 3 to 7), so that could be perhaps true for the crossroads phase, too?

Quote:
6) Non-Infiltrating Sympathetic Cylons and Revealed Cylons cannot use action text intended for humans, so I would rule that they cannot fulfill goals. Regardless, people on Team Cylon at game end don't flip over unfilled Personal Goals anyway, so it doesn't matter.


Where do you have that from? I am only aware of the rule, that Cylons may not use Actions from non-treachery-skill cards?

Even if it's correct what you say, what about infiltrating sympathetic Cylons?
 
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ackmondual
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If I skipped something, it's b/c I agree with the 2 responses thus far or have nothing else to add.

1-
Quote:
Action: Choose any player, give him either the Admiral or CAG title, then discard this card.

Unless my records are wrong, then yes, you can give the CAG or admiral to yourself.

Caveat: I don't believe you can give the admiral to someone in the Brig. There was a clarification from Tim Uren that you can't give the CAG to someone in the Brig as well.

jsciv wrote:
1) If the card says "another player" then you cannot give it to yourself. If it says "any player" then you can. I don't have it in front of me, but that's the general rule of thumb.
Even then, I'd wonder about the ambiguity about "another player" referring to the president/Roslin playing Qcard via OPG, or admiral.

2-
any roll on his turn.
E.g., Anders plays State Of Emergency, then he passes when Cain fires with Main Batteries. When Felix on FTL Control activates FTL Control, Anders uses his OPG to declare the die roll will be a 6 (or 1).


4-
If we were to apply the ruling that Scar can only be killed as a result of a roll of 7 or higher (1) OK... launch nuke at sector 1. Result is 7, Basestar is destroyed, + 3 raiders. Since Scar is one of the raiders, he/it can be selected. 2) NOT OK... launch nuke at sector 1. Result is 4, Basestar is destroyed, + 3 raiders. Since 4 was the result, he/it canNOT be selected as 1 of the 3 raiders. 3) NOT OK... play Authorization Of Brute Force... destroy 3 raiders. Since ABF did not trigger a die roll, let alone a result 7 or 8, Scar can't be among them)...

If the Collatoral damage resulted due to a 7+ was roll, then yes. Otherwise, no (e.g. that crossroads card that just says to damage a basestar)

6-
selwyth wrote:
No, Sympathizer, Sympathetic Cylon and revealed Cylons give their Loyalty Cards (which might be Personal Goals) away when they reveal.
They generally will, but the corner case is the Symp-Cylon gets dealt at when distance is 7 or more since it was the undealt card in the loyalty deck (due to Exo's new way of handling loyalty cards of course).

I'm gonna say a SYmp-Cylon can NOT use actions to reveal PGs, whether infiltrating or not. For that matter, that extends to the rare case the Symp-Cylon has cylon cardss) that he couldn't hand off.

7-
Not mandatory. In fact, an unrevealed cylon won't want to reveal them if he knows his PGs will cause a resource to go to 0.

Last but not least, there is no loophole to give a Cylon Leader loyalty cards. He'll always be stuck with his single Agenda card.

9-
jsciv wrote:
9) The Sympathizer/Sympathetic receives his or her Loyalty Card as usual and does with it whatever the current ruleset says (if Pegasus, hand it off immediately and if not Pegasus then hold onto it).

Furthermore... If playing without Pegasus, you can always use Ress. Ship to hand off the unrevealed loyalty cards. the base game rules say a revealed cylon gets you hold on to it, but hand it off immediately
 
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Mark L
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I would rule that Scar cannot be chosen regardless of what roll the Basestar was damaged with. Drawing the token is an additional step and is independent of the Basestar damage roll, unlike, for example, using Main Batteries. Just as how you cannot ABF Scar, anything not involving a die roll cannot destroy Scar.
 
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ackmondual
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markino wrote:
I would rule that Scar cannot be chosen regardless of what roll the Basestar was damaged with. Drawing the token is an additional step and is independent of the Basestar damage roll, unlike, for example, using Main Batteries. Just as how you cannot ABF Scar, anything not involving a die roll cannot destroy Scar.


But you can destroy Scar via nuke, so I'm inclined to think the OP's method works too, so long it was the result of a roll or 7+.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Battlestar_Galactica_...
Quote:
Q: Besides a viper or weapons control, how can you kill Scar? (numerous threads)
A: (Compiled from rulings by Corey and Tim to various users, summarized Any effect which involves a die roll to determine whether you may or how many raiders you may destroy, as long as the result of the die roll is a 7 or 8. This includes Pegasus Main Batteries, nukes, Best of the Best (Exodus skill card), or similar effects. This excludes cards which permit destroying raiders without a die roll, such as Authorization of Brutal Force or the Miraculous Return Crossroads Card (Exodus).



EDIT: clarification
 
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Frank Otte
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Well, according to that, drawing the "Collateral Damage" token should not destroy Scar, because with the roll, you determine, if you may or may not draw a basestar-damagetoken, but not, wether you may destroy raiders (or how many).

Or with other words, it's right the draw, not the right roll, that let's you destroy raiders. Since the FAQ says, that a roll (of 7+) is directly necessary, to be allowed to destroy Scar, Scar can obviously not be destroyed by a draw of the damage token "Collateral Damage".
 
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Mark L
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Yes, you can destroy Scar by nuke as the result of 7/8 directly says "destroy Raiders" or "destroy everything".

Drawing the Collateral Damage token is, to me, already in a separate step. The roll you made said "Damage the Basestar", which has nothing to do with Scar and Scar should be hence unaffected by the roll of 7/8.
 
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ackmondual
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Hermjard wrote:
Well, according to that, drawing the "Collateral Damage" token should not destroy Scar, because with the roll, you determine, if you may or may not draw a basestar-damagetoken, but not, wether you may destroy raiders (or how many).

Or with other words, it's right the draw, not the right roll, that let's you destroy raiders. Since the FAQ says, that a roll (of 7+) is directly necessary, to be allowed to destroy Scar, Scar can obviously not be destroyed by a draw of the damage token "Collateral Damage".
Some of the cases I've fleshed out...

A nuke that rolls 7 means basestar + 3 raiders are destroyed. The "Collateral Damage" is irrelevant b/c when you don't draw any damage tokens for the basestar. It's simply destroyed. Scar gets destroyed with it and the UFAQ confirms that.

A nuke that rolls 8+ with CFB means EVERYTHING is destroyed. Since you target a sector, NOT basestar with the CFB-style nukes, I'd deem Scar was directly in the line of fire anyways.

If you use Weapons Control, Peggy CIC, or viper vs. basestar and roll a 7+, draw Collateral Damage, I'd count this to be able to destroy Scar as part of the 3 raiders since it seems similar to case #1 above.

.

BTW, this may cause for confusing language if someone tries to argue that Kat's Hotshot and ANders' OPG aren't considered die rolls if they can't be SP... but still count for the purposes of killing Scar
 
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Ernest Chua
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I don't have the rule books in front of me, but my memory is that when using Pegasus and Exodus together, you take out Scar (I think it is in the last or second last page of the Exodus rule book).
 
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Trevin Beattie
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smaug007 wrote:
I don't have the rule books in front of me, but my memory is that when using Pegasus and Exodus together, you take out Scar (I think it is in the last or second last page of the Exodus rule book).


Page 24 of the Exodus rule book:

Quote:
Using the Cylon Fleet Option
• When setting up the Exodus expansion, be sure to remove all Cylon attack cards from both the Crisis deck and the Super Crisis deck.


Scar is one of the Cylon attack crisis cards.

(Edit: Added the option heading to the rule quote)
 
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Justin S.
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Trevin wrote:
smaug007 wrote:
I don't have the rule books in front of me, but my memory is that when using Pegasus and Exodus together, you take out Scar (I think it is in the last or second last page of the Exodus rule book).


Page 24 of the Exodus rule book:

Quote:
When setting up the Exodus expansion, be sure to remove all Cylon attack cards from both the Crisis deck and the Super Crisis deck.


Scar is one of the Cylon attack crisis cards.


This only applies when using the Cylon Fleet Board. It is possible to use the attack cards with Exodus, as long as you are not using the Fleet Board module.
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Trevin Beattie
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SnarksandBoojums wrote:
Trevin wrote:
smaug007 wrote:
I don't have the rule books in front of me, but my memory is that when using Pegasus and Exodus together, you take out Scar (I think it is in the last or second last page of the Exodus rule book).


Page 24 of the Exodus rule book:

Quote:
When setting up the Exodus expansion, be sure to remove all Cylon attack cards from both the Crisis deck and the Super Crisis deck.


Scar is one of the Cylon attack crisis cards.


This only applies when using the Cylon Fleet Board. It is possible to use the attack cards with Exodus, as long as you are not using the Fleet Board module.


Correct; I will expand the quote above.
 
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Frank Otte
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Indeed, in my original post I mentioned the modules 1 and 3, but not module 2, which is the Cylon Fleet Board.
 
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Jukka-Pekka Tuominen
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ackmondual wrote:
7-
Not mandatory. In fact, an unrevealed cylon won't want to reveal them if he knows his PGs will cause a resource to go to 0.

Last but not least, there is no loophole to give a Cylon Leader loyalty cards. He'll always be stuck with his single Agenda card.

I don't get this rule.
Would it then mean that an unrevealed cylon player should never reveal his personal goal card (although perhaps in a bizarre strategy to acquire a Final Five card instead)?
For instant in case you have a PG to damage Galactica twice. And you do. And afterwards you just gloom in your happiness to have the humans lose their resources at the end of the game? That doesn't seem very fair. It sounds quite much like cheating to me..

I have read the posts about this subject so I know what the rules say. But I still think if an unrevealed cylon player has PG card it shouldn't be resolved at the end of the game.

EDIT:
To make myself more clear. I don't think it's a bad rule when it's not mandatory to reveal your Personal Goals. I think it's a good rule as in common rule the other players don't even know your PG cards so they cannot possible know if you don't reveal them.
But at the end of the game I think it should have its bad effect in times when a human player forgot to reveal the card when he had a chance. But not to have its effect when a (unrevealed) cylon player hides the card intentionally so humans will lose a resource. To me it seems that for a person holding a YAAC card should never reveal their card.
(Also thematically I don't think cylons should have "personal goals" to make the humans suffer. It's their collectual goal already to do so.)
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Which personal goal lets you damage Galactica twice? I think you have something mixed up now, maybe with Cylon reveal powers or final five cards.

Personal goals have a condition that is required for you to reveal them using an action. If a human player has an unrevealed one at the end of the game, you lose the resource on the card.

The Final Five card: If this card is examined, Galactica is damaged twice is not a Personal Goal, and it does not trigger at the end of the game. It only triggers if a player is executed (the appropriate part of it, not the damage part), or a game effect allows/causes someone to examine it.
 
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Jukka-Pekka Tuominen
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a1bert wrote:
Which personal goal lets you damage Galactica twice? I think you have something mixed up now, maybe with Cylon reveal powers or final five cards.

Personal goals have a condition that is required for you to reveal them using an action. If a human player has an unrevealed one at the end of the game, you lose the resource on the card.

The Final Five card: If this card is examined, Galactica is damaged twice is not a Personal Goal, and it does not trigger at the end of the game. It only triggers if a player is executed, or a game effect allows/causes someone examine it.

I might have in mind that FF card. So I'll change it. Instead of that let's say you have "Sacrifice: 6 Vipers Damaged or Destroyed
Action:
Reveal this card if 6 or more vipers are damaged or destroyed.
Then, if distance is 6 or less, shuffle 1 "You Are Not a Cylon" card into the Loyalty deck and draw a new Loyalty Card.

If you are a human player and this card has not been revealed by the end of the game, lose: (fuel)"
For a cylon player the best thing to do would be to not reveal their card even if there are more than 6 damaged vipers and then humans would have that to deal with and lose one fuel resource at the end of the game. I think that's much like cheating.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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The PG does not magically repair the vipers, so there is no difference whether the PG is revealed or not.

Also, the hidden cylon is making a tradeoff between not revealing the Personal Goal by staying hidden, and getting their reveal power.

It's not cheating, it is a feature and part of the strategy.
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ackmondual
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jutuomin wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
7-
Not mandatory. In fact, an unrevealed cylon won't want to reveal them if he knows his PGs will cause a resource to go to 0.

Last but not least, there is no loophole to give a Cylon Leader loyalty cards. He'll always be stuck with his single Agenda card.

I don't get this rule.
Would it then mean that an unrevealed cylon player should never reveal his personal goal card (although perhaps in a bizarre strategy to acquire a Final Five card instead)?
For instant in case you have a PG to damage Galactica twice. And you do. And afterwards you just gloom in your happiness to have the humans lose their resources at the end of the game? That doesn't seem very fair. It sounds quite much like cheating to me..

I have read the posts about this subject so I know what the rules say. But I still think if an unrevealed cylon player has PG card it shouldn't be resolved at the end of the game.

EDIT:
To make myself more clear. I don't think it's a bad rule when it's not mandatory to reveal your Personal Goals. I think it's a good rule as in common rule the other players don't even know your PG cards so they cannot possible know if you don't reveal them.
But at the end of the game I think it should have its bad effect in in times when a human player forgot to reveal the card when he had a chance. But not to have its effect when a (unrevealed) cylon player hides the card intentionally so humans will lose a resource. To me it seems that for a person holding a YAAC card should never reveal their card.
(Also thematically I don't think cylons should have "personal goals" to make the humans suffer. It's their collectual goal already to do so.)


Yeah, make sure with PGs, you're referring to the YANAC cards that have a large resource printed on the bottom. Otherwise, the only other things that damage Gally are the reveal power (YAAC card), or the Final Five card (YANAC) that only gets triggered when someone examines it. You discard skill cards when that player has to reveal it due to execution. Nothing happens at the end of the game with FF cards.

If you want houserule it such that you don't lose the resource from an unrevealed cylon, you're more welcomed to. Just make sure to bring it up ahead of time. Otherwise, the way it is, it does encourage cylons to stay hidden, which could be a counterbalance to the CFB's Basestar Bridge location.

OTOH, because of the rule how you can't do a handoff if distance is 7 or more, it also creates sort of tension for cylons how 6 or less distance is sort of the "do or die" point for them. I guess you can try to spin that off as hurrying to pass off the extra cylon card they got if the other cylon is still at large (and now leave them guessing if it was just a regular reveal, a reveal to pass off FF and/or PGs, or also a Cylon card in the mix).
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