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Mansions of Madness» Forums » Rules

Subject: Hiding (FA), Fire, Barriers, Darkness rss

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Luqash Luqash
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Hi guys, I've been lurking here for a couple of weeks and your insight is very helpful. I played several standard gaes and yesterday we finished our first Forbidden Alchemy scenario. I will post a few questions. No spoilers will be present ;-)

1) HIDING -> What is considered the action of the keeper? Is it only actions from Action cards or maybe also mythos, trauma, monster attacks or triggered actions from trauma?

2) WALKING HANDS -> Are tokens removed when they enter burning room? Nothing like that in written in the manual but they still appear as a part of a corpse. So I was wondering if the same rule applies here.

3) DARKNESS -> If there is a room where Darkness token is already present and the keeper playes again the Darkness Action Card, do the investigators have to do again a willpower check?

4) BARIER -> Lets suppose that the Barier from the room A is set to block the enterance between rooms A and B. Can an investigator spend action phase when he is in the room B to remove the barier back to its original spot?

5) PUZZLES -> When someone fails to finish a puzzle (excluding alchemy puzzle)Does it just lie freely and "openly' on the table or do you cover it so the players cant plan their moves beforehand? We play with one minute time cap so we though that this might a logical.

6) FIRE -> When there are several rooms covered in fire and they are each connected, do you have to do a horror check each time you enter a new room? Im almost sure that the answer is yes but I want to make sure. When we played scenario one from the FA almost all house was covered in fire and losses, sanity loss with relatively small threat cost was really really difficult Yes, there is a fire extinguisher but it may be used only once.

Thanks for your time. I thank you for your time and advices.

L.Sz.
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Zbyszek Łebkowski
Poland
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Happy holidays Luqash,

1. If I remember correctly a hidden investigator can be the target for keeper cards as normal.

3. You cannot have 2 same darkness tokens in the same space

4. You can remove the barrirer from both sides.

5. My group doesnt. They're not particularly hard and the action limit is mostly the cause of not completeng a puzzle in one round.

6. Correct. Everytime you try to onter a room on fire.
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Roberta Yang
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1) Hiding only protects you from being targeted by the large Keeper Action cards. Mythos, Trauma, activated Trauma abilities, and special attack effects can all still hurt you. Note that hiding only protects you if the keeper action actually targets you, so something like the Darkness Keeper Action will still affect you, since it affects all investigators in rooms in darkness instead of targeting an investigator. (Another minor effect of hiding is that you can't be attacked by other investigators, so the keeper can't use an effect like Friend? to make someone attack you if you're hiding.)

2) Nothing says they burn, so they don't. It's easier to burn a huge immobile corpse than a small nimble hand.

3) Yes. Darkness forces willpower tests in all dark rooms, not just the newly-darkened room.

4) Yes, barriers can be pushed off doors as an action regardless of which side of the door you're on. (Otherwise the Green-Eyed Boy scenario would be slightly more broken.)

5) We don't bother covering it because we don't bother planning moves in advance either. Do whatever works for your group.

6) Yes, each new room on fire is a new horror test. Pyromaniac is a very badly-designed keeper action, and any scenario containing it can be improved by chucking it out entirely.
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Rauli Kettunen
Finland
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salty53 wrote:
1) Hiding only protects you from being targeted by the large Keeper Action cards.


This was my recollection as well, but for some reason, can't find anything to back it up in the rulebook (did searches for "target", "hiding", "hidden" and "keeper action").
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Mark Harris
United Kingdom
stevenage
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My understanding of hiding is the only thing it does is affect which combat cards are used.
i.e Keeper draws "monster vs hiding" card.

I can't find anything else in rulebook that is affected by hiding.
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Roberta Yang
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You're not finding it because the rule doesn't exist in the base game. It was added in the Forbidden Alchemy rulebook:

Page 9 wrote:
While an investigator is hiding, he cannot be chosen as the
target of a Keeper Action (for example, the Take Sample Keeper
Action card). However, the investigator is still subject to any
status effects affecting the room (Fire or Darkness, for example)
and must still make a Horror check if a monster enters his room.

The rule only applies to Keeper Actions, so hiding has no effect on Mythos, Trauma, monster special attacks, etc (though you usually won't be affected by special attacks while hiding because Monster vs Hiding cards never say "the monster makes its special attack").

Remember that even though the activated abilities on trauma cards are played during the keeper's Action Step and have a threat cost written as if they were keeper actions, they are not actually keeper actions - they are not blocked by hiding and they don't stop you from being able to regain your threat from Evil Presence.


Since "target" isn't really a well-defined game term, here's my interpretation of what hiding makes you immune to:

* Take Sample cannot be used to take samples from you. [This is the explicit example given.]
* Maniac Attack cannot drop maniacs on you.
* Uncontrollable Urges cannot affect you.
* Witchcraft cannot drop witches on you.
* Brown Jenkin cannot give you Marks of the Witch. [POD]
* Lure of Silver cannot threaten to move you. [POD]
* Unseen Wings cannot drop cultists on you. [POD]
* Crawling Chaos cannot infect you. [POD]
* Crawling Hands cannot grab you and stun you. [FA]
* Unwilling Test Subjects cannot give you mutation tokens. [FA]
* The Fourth Wall cannot force you to make a horror test. [POD]
* The Court of Carcosa cannot give you a King's Court card. [POD]

* I don't have Called by the King in front of me so I'm not sure whether the final wording allows it to activate the King's Court cards of hiding investigators. It depends on whether it tells the keeper to choose an investigator and activate one of their King's Court cards or whether it just has the keeper choose a King's Court card directly. [POD]

Hiding has no effect on Evil Presence, Command Minion, Creature of Night, Raise Dead, Summon Worshippers, Summoning, Dark Ritual, Pyromaniac, Darkness, Gate Flux, Absorb, Traps & Treachery, Hunters of Time and Space, Harvest Organs, Mutagen Testing, Breaking Character, or Open Auditions.
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Luqash Luqash
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Hm, what about if monster attacks you? You take monster vs hideout scenario, right? Otherwise I guess that this would be a pretty weak spell.

Thanks for clarification on pyromaniac. I just wanted to make sure whether or not it is as powerful as I anticipated. Unfortunatly it is and investigators cant do much about it.

I guess that even multiple usages of fire extinguisher could fix that. It would still be good due to the fact that investigators lose sanity and actions but it would give them any chance to stay alive. Has anyone tried out this house rule or sees any problematic cases if this would be implemented as a house rule?

Cheers geeks!

Happy holidays.
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Roberta Yang
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Luqash wrote:
Hm, what about if monster attacks you? You take monster vs hideout scenario, right? Otherwise I guess that this would be a pretty weak spell.

Yes, you use Monster vs Hiding attacks. Hiding from Mists of Releh is just like hiding in a hiding space except you can move around and it wears off.

You could still be affected by a special attack while hiding if a monster makes its special attack against a non-hiding investigator in your room and the special attack affects all investigators in the room somehow - I think there's one special attack somewhere whose effect is "each investigator in the room takes 1 damage, no save".

Luqash wrote:
Thanks for clarification on pyromaniac. I just wanted to make sure whether or not it is as powerful as I anticipated. Unfortunatly it is and investigators cant do much about it.

I guess that even multiple usages of fire extinguisher could fix that. It would still be good due to the fact that investigators lose sanity and actions but it would give them any chance to stay alive. Has anyone tried out this house rule or sees any problematic cases if this would be implemented as a house rule?

I don't see any problem with making Fire Extinguisher reusable. It's a pretty weak item as it stands.
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Nicola Zee
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Luqash wrote:
Hm, what about if monster attacks you? You take monster vs hideout scenario, right? Otherwise I guess that this would be a pretty weak spell.

Thanks for clarification on pyromaniac. I just wanted to make sure whether or not it is as powerful as I anticipated. Unfortunatly it is and investigators cant do much about it.

I guess that even multiple usages of fire extinguisher could fix that. It would still be good due to the fact that investigators lose sanity and actions but it would give them any chance to stay alive. Has anyone tried out this house rule or sees any problematic cases if this would be implemented as a house rule?

Cheers geeks!

Happy holidays.

Making fire extinguisher more effective would be an interesting fix for fire. My solution was to nerf fire by ignoring the rule that fire causes a Horror test. I found it an unnecessary distraction and annoyance and so don't bother applying it. The keeper can still kill investigators by slow death by fire but its not so annoying as insanity by repeated die rolls.
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Hovhannes B.
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I don't know about you, but if I were staying in a burning building on purpose I'd be making horror checks
 
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Jeff Davis
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SanguinousRex wrote:
I don't know about you, but if I were staying in a burning building on purpose I'd be making horror checks


Not to mention having the Burn Unit Hotline number memorized....
 
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Nicola Zee
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SanguinousRex wrote:
I don't know about you, but if I were staying in a burning building on purpose I'd be making horror checks

True, but the horror test is for entering the room - not staying in it. If the fire token is placed in the room and the investigator stays and starts burning to death - there is no horror test. If the investigator enters the room and then immediately leaves - taking no damage - there is a horror test.
 
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Gildor Finelen
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3) But what if I have two rooms without a wall in between. For instance, what if the scenario got Cave 1 to be adjacent to Cave 2, and there is a Darkness token on Cave 1. Is a investigator on Cave 2 affected by it? What if a monster is in Cave 1, does the investigator roll a Terror?
 
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Tore Halvorsen
Norway
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Then they are separate rooms - in essence no different than rooms with doors between them.
 
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Greg Filpus
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demo wrote:
Then they are separate rooms - in essence no different than rooms with doors between them.


The one difference is that you can generally draw line of sight through non-wall tile borders or (in expansions) yellow/impassable lines that divide rooms on a tile. The Hallways have line of sight dots for that purpose. The only effect that really cares about line of sight is ranged attacks, though.
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Raph Moimoi
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salty53 wrote:
You're not finding it because the rule doesn't exist in the base game. It was added in the Forbidden Alchemy rulebook:

Page 9 wrote:
While an investigator is hiding, he cannot be chosen as the
target of a Keeper Action (for example, the Take Sample Keeper
Action card). However, the investigator is still subject to any
status effects affecting the room (Fire or Darkness, for example)
and must still make a Horror check if a monster enters his room.



Is this in a rules revision ? I don't find this in the rules on the FFG website.
Aslo, where do you find the rule that states an investigator can't attack a hiding investigator ?
 
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Tore Halvorsen
Norway
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Check the forbidden alchemy rules, page 9 - as salty53 wrote.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/mansions-of-ma...


Not sure about investigators attacking hiding investigators...
 
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Raph Moimoi
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Alright, that's what I previously read.

I can't find the other answer.
 
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