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Subject: Not Ready for Prime Time rss

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A Lubershane
United States
Massachusetts
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After playing Purge about 7-8 times, I am unfortunately disappointed. "Disappointed" is really the best word to use, because this game really does have so much promise, with a cool theme, excellent artwork, and clever core mechanics. It does not live up to that promise, My sense is that the game was released too soon. It is not ready for prime time. Here's why:

1. The rules are not fully fleshed out: This is a complex game with lots of keywords and unique cards that seem to be exceptions to the rules. The rules that came with the kickstarter version of the game are incomplete. It would be impossible play with them alone. The "full rules" available online do a better job, but are not complete themselves. Many of the abilities are still unclear and many of the cards necessitate tons of errata. Don't get me started on the kickstarter cards that were printed incorrectly.

2. The decks are not well balanced: In a game with some element of luck, this is not entirely necessary because even a technically worse deck can win some of the time with clever play. This game, however, is a "perfect-information" game, which means that careful balancing of the different elements is essential to prevent the game from becoming totally deterministic. From my experience, the developers did not balance the decks that come with the kickstarter set. It becomes clear quite quickly that certain decks cannot win against certain other decks. In the case of the Ancients, neither deck can win against skilled players operating any of the other armies. In many games, the difficulty of winning via Stronghold attack means that the game comes down to a battle of super-weapons. Let the better super-weapon win.

3. Despite the wide variety of cards, the game plays pretty much the same each time: One Commander takes an early lead in assaulting the others' base. The other Commander struggles for a few turns to hold him off, then eventually is overrun. I have never seen a "turn-around" in which one player successfully fends off the other, then comes back for a victory. Once one player takes the lead, the other player can try to stall for time and better OPS cards. The trouble is, the other player is generally just as happy to get more time, energy, and better OPS cards as well. To successfully defend against an attack, then launch a counterattack in the same turn is essentially impossible. By the following turn, your opponent will also regenerate all his energy, and be ready to swarm you once again.

4. Too much to keep track of, no way to keep track of it: The game is fiddly, and there are no design elements (or bits) that make it easy to keep track of anything. You have to bootleg something, which gets kind of annoying. A little extra elegance (Magic's "tapping", for example) would go a long way.

I really wanted to enjoy this game. I pushed myself to give it multiple chances. Unfortunately, the game makes me feel like a play-tester, not a customer.
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JR Wr
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I've had a few kickstarter projects I wasn't quite satisfied with.

But this? Purge? Complete disappointment.

The quality of the cards.
The not 'mouse pad' quality playmate.
And of course the aforementioned rules issues and errata.

The cheery on the Sunday was the response to being asked if a errata pack of cards would be sent to the backers.
Which was, if I recall right, was were looking into it and might come out with a pack that people can buy if they want.

All in all, big bummer.
But its a roll of the dice with kickstarter.
This one was snake eyes.
Just have to learn from it next time round.
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Bruno Gaia
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ropya wrote:
I've had a few kickstarter projects I wasn't quite satisfied with.

But this? Purge? Complete disappointment.

The quality of the cards.
The not 'mouse pad' quality playmate.
And of course the aforementioned rules issues and errata.

The cheery on the Sunday was the response to being asked if a errata pack of cards would be sent to the backers.
Which was, if I recall right, was were looking into it and might come out with a pack that people can buy if they want.

All in all, big bummer.
But its a roll of the dice with kickstarter.
This one was snake eyes.
Just have to learn from it next time round.


At this stage (haven't received it yet but read all the so-so comments) I think that IF the game has qualities anyway (some people seem to say so) NEF has to send the errated pack of cards and an errated version of the rules with the expansion or they will definitely give themselves a bad name...

Added to that they should be working hard on fixing anything that needs to be fixed and make sure that the expansion will come out with all it takes to make their game come back with a revenge.

Such great art and great basic idea (direct opposition card game without luck, "RTS style" for what it means)... It would be a shame if they just let it go to rot for need if proper customer servicing.

Also I think people should try to stop complaining and criticizing for a while and just suggest things for NFE to fix the project.
After all, if we all say: "okay, failure" and last stop, we're all (backers) in for a big disappointement and some wasted money, whereas if we help NFE find a solution to save the day, we might get a very decent game once it's errated and the expansions add some layers of interest to the base game.

But I 100% agree that things being what they seem to be, proposing to buy an errated pack is a very MEH option.

IMO a company, be it game or cars or fruits or guns for all I know HAS to fix what's wrong with its product when something is definitely wrong and they have to do it for free.
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Run with me
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Agree with Bruno - we can provide constructive feedback so that they (NFE) can improve on an otherwise great concept to the game. Yet the OP did provide constructive feedbacks so the ball is really on NFE's court.

I too am also quite disappointed and agree with the OP that the game is not well balanced and this makes it hard for one faction to pit against a particular other. Situations are also hard to reverse.

Kickstarters paid good dollars to help defray their risk in production (what they produced is already paid for) and we are getting more like a game-in-progress. I hope NFE revise it and give us faithfuls the revision without extra charges.
 
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JR Wr
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brunogaia wrote:
ropya wrote:
I've had a few kickstarter projects I wasn't quite satisfied with.

But this? Purge? Complete disappointment.

The quality of the cards.
The not 'mouse pad' quality playmate.
And of course the aforementioned rules issues and errata.

The cheery on the Sunday was the response to being asked if a errata pack of cards would be sent to the backers.
Which was, if I recall right, was were looking into it and might come out with a pack that people can buy if they want.

All in all, big bummer.
But its a roll of the dice with kickstarter.
This one was snake eyes.
Just have to learn from it next time round.


At this stage (haven't received it yet but read all the so-so comments) I think that IF the game has qualities anyway (some people seem to say so) NEF has to send the errated pack of cards and an errated version of the rules with the expansion or they will definitely give themselves a bad name...

Added to that they should be working hard on fixing anything that needs to be fixed and make sure that the expansion will come out with all it takes to make their game come back with a revenge.

Such great art and great basic idea (direct opposition card game without luck, "RTS style" for what it means)... It would be a shame if they just let it go to rot for need if proper customer servicing.

Also I think people should try to stop complaining and criticizing for a while and just suggest things for NFE to fix the project.
After all, if we all say: "okay, failure" and last stop, we're all (backers) in for a big disappointement and some wasted money, whereas if we help NFE find a solution to save the day, we might get a very decent game once it's errated and the expansions add some layers of interest to the base game.

But I 100% agree that things being what they seem to be, proposing to buy an errated pack is a very MEH option.

IMO a company, be it game or cars or fruits or guns for all I know HAS to fix what's wrong with its product when something is definitely wrong and they have to do it for free.


I agree, constructive criticism is always preferred.
That said, I tried that, up till the 'an errata pack might be made available that can be purchased' bit.
This is the first time Ive posted, that I can recall, that has out right complaints / critiques.
And more so than anything, I was not trying to come across as complaining.
Simply stating my view.
 
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Bruno Gaia
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ropya wrote:
brunogaia wrote:
ropya wrote:
I've had a few kickstarter projects I wasn't quite satisfied with.

But this? Purge? Complete disappointment.

The quality of the cards.
The not 'mouse pad' quality playmate.
And of course the aforementioned rules issues and errata.

The cheery on the Sunday was the response to being asked if a errata pack of cards would be sent to the backers.
Which was, if I recall right, was were looking into it and might come out with a pack that people can buy if they want.

All in all, big bummer.
But its a roll of the dice with kickstarter.
This one was snake eyes.
Just have to learn from it next time round.


At this stage (haven't received it yet but read all the so-so comments) I think that IF the game has qualities anyway (some people seem to say so) NEF has to send the errated pack of cards and an errated version of the rules with the expansion or they will definitely give themselves a bad name...

Added to that they should be working hard on fixing anything that needs to be fixed and make sure that the expansion will come out with all it takes to make their game come back with a revenge.

Such great art and great basic idea (direct opposition card game without luck, "RTS style" for what it means)... It would be a shame if they just let it go to rot for need if proper customer servicing.

Also I think people should try to stop complaining and criticizing for a while and just suggest things for NFE to fix the project.
After all, if we all say: "okay, failure" and last stop, we're all (backers) in for a big disappointement and some wasted money, whereas if we help NFE find a solution to save the day, we might get a very decent game once it's errated and the expansions add some layers of interest to the base game.

But I 100% agree that things being what they seem to be, proposing to buy an errated pack is a very MEH option.

IMO a company, be it game or cars or fruits or guns for all I know HAS to fix what's wrong with its product when something is definitely wrong and they have to do it for free.


I agree, constructive criticism is always preferred.
That said, I tried that, up till the 'an errata pack might be made available that can be purchased' bit.
This is the first time Ive posted, that I can recall, that has out right complaints / critiques.
And more so than anything, I was not trying to come across as complaining.
Simply stating my view.


I dig that mate. And be 100% sure I wasn't criticizing your position... I mean , I can feel honest disappointment in what you wrote.
It's just that the way you put it makes it a bit final.
We're all in the same (somewhat leaky) boa here: it seems (I haven't received it yet but I trust you and the rest of my fellow BGGers) that what we're getting for our good dollars is a work in progress.
Well, so be it.
Now what we need is to get a work that is finalized and fixed and ready to go and no fuss about buying extras.
I mean... It's a bad start right, real bad. But there ARE good things (art, general idea) and I think what we need to do is be even more part and parcel of this project. Not with our money but with our ideas and a... Second leap of faith.
But NFE needs to send some positive signs of understanding.

See, I'm backing this new project at the moment (Battlecon) and the designer is SUCH a great guy. His first installmet of the gale received so many excellent reviews (even from Tom Vassel!) that he could just swag and brag and ignore us backers. On the contrary he never stops answering all our questions and addressing all our suggestions.
AND HIS GAME IS REALLY SMASHING AS IT IS!

I think NFE needs to do do that even more than Mister Talton with Battllecon.
We've provided funds and now it seems that we must provide a second period of massive play-testing... SO be it.
End of the day, if everybody is honest to his word and position in this business, we might see something emerge that will be both decent and the result of a collective effort.

Yeah, I know, I sound very optimistic here and that's not me... But well, if we don't react positively we're *** up aren't we?

But sure I understand your feeling. I was sooo looking forward to this game and now I doubt I'll event play it with my wife the day it arrives...
Shame ain't it?
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Joel Chi
United States
Berkeley
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Giving it a little more thought, I feel like expanding the game may not be the way to go. I feel like, as Andy stated, the lack of elegance in the rules and the fact that the same match-ups play very similarly each time are issues that cannot be fixed with just more cards.

This game can become a good game, but I believe a redesign with perhaps the same card art would be the only way of saving it. I just don't feel the current system as it stands has a lot of "fun factor", which is what I mostly play games for. End game and early game is dry in Purge, and sometimes its very easy to feel overwhelmed or hopeless. I don't think the "no-luck" gamble has paid off here.
 
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Aitor
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alubershane wrote:
2. The decks are not well balanced:
(...)
3. Despite the wide variety of cards, the game plays pretty much the same each time:

ropya wrote:
I've had a few kickstarter projects I wasn't quite satisfied with.

But this? Purge? Complete disappointment.

jhc660 wrote:
I believe a redesign with perhaps the same card art would be the only way of saving it. I just don't feel the current system as it stands has a lot of "fun factor"

mouselim wrote:
I too am also quite disappointed and agree with the OP that the game is not well balanced and this makes it hard for one faction to pit against a particular other. Situations are also hard to reverse.


Wow, this looks bad.

From the very start, PURGE looked like the kind of project that kickstarter was made for, ambitious and original, and I simply couldn't understand how its fundings didn't skyrocket.

I don't really mind bland rules or the need of additional markers as long as the gameplay is good. But if all these gameplay comments are true, that would leave nothing salvageabe about this project.

My copy hasn't arrived yet and I have to play the game before giving a judgement. This has been my first Kickstarter and I still have hopes to enjoy this game, but these early negative comments on BGG look really bad

brunogaia wrote:
We've provided funds and now it seems that we must provide a second period of massive play-testing... SO be it.
End of the day, if everybody is honest to his word and position in this business, we might see something emerge that will be both decent and the result of a collective effort.

Yeah, I know, I sound very optimistic here and that's not me... But well, if we don't react positively we're *** up aren't we?

But sure I understand your feeling. I was sooo looking forward to this game and now I doubt I'll event play it with my wife the day it arrives...
Shame ain't it?


In the case this game is a flop... there's nothing much we can do about it. Perhaps I'm not as generous as you, but if I pay for an underdeveloped game based on a good idea, I don't think I should gift the publishers my playtesting work. If I were supermotivated, I would rather reuse that idea into a new and different project of mine and try to develop it better.

Bruno, you should give PURGE at least a few tries. The BGG hivemind often agrees with our individual opinions, but not always. This game can still be good for some of us, and we won't know until we play it.
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Bruno Gaia
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Being a Geek is a sure sign of a sound mind, cause it means you think that life as it is is dull and should be more interesting. Which it is.
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Hollyhock wrote:
alubershane wrote:
2. The decks are not well balanced:
(...)
3. Despite the wide variety of cards, the game plays pretty much the same each time:

ropya wrote:
I've had a few kickstarter projects I wasn't quite satisfied with.

But this? Purge? Complete disappointment.

jhc660 wrote:
I believe a redesign with perhaps the same card art would be the only way of saving it. I just don't feel the current system as it stands has a lot of "fun factor"

mouselim wrote:
I too am also quite disappointed and agree with the OP that the game is not well balanced and this makes it hard for one faction to pit against a particular other. Situations are also hard to reverse.


Wow, this looks bad.

From the very start, PURGE looked like the kind of project that kickstarter was made for, ambitious and original, and I simply couldn't understand how its fundings didn't skyrocket.

I don't really mind bland rules or the need of additional markers as long as the gameplay is good. But if all these gameplay comments are true, that would leave nothing salvageabe about this project.

My copy hasn't arrived yet and I have to play the game before giving a judgement. This has been my first Kickstarter and I still have hopes to enjoy this game, but these early negative comments on BGG look really bad :(

brunogaia wrote:
We've provided funds and now it seems that we must provide a second period of massive play-testing... SO be it.
End of the day, if everybody is honest to his word and position in this business, we might see something emerge that will be both decent and the result of a collective effort.

Yeah, I know, I sound very optimistic here and that's not me... But well, if we don't react positively we're *** up aren't we?

But sure I understand your feeling. I was sooo looking forward to this game and now I doubt I'll event play it with my wife the day it arrives...
Shame ain't it?


In the case this game is a flop... there's nothing much we can do about it. Perhaps I'm not as generous as you, but if I pay for an underdeveloped game based on a good idea, I don't think I should gift the publishers my playtesting work. If I were supermotivated, I would rather reuse that idea into a new and different project of mine and try to develop it better.

Bruno, you should give PURGE at least a few tries. The BGG hivemind often agrees with our individual opinions, but not always. This game can still be good for some of us, and we won't know until we play it.


Yeah mate, I'll give it a try sure, but all the negative comments and all the erratas have really messed up my open the box experience and I don't have that box yet...
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Edwin Santoni
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This has been the first Kickstarter boardgame that I've felt regret about
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Vincenzo Chieppa
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"Despite the wide variety of cards, the game plays pretty much the same each time"

Seems none of you guys remember Magic the gathering at its dawn.
5 different colors and approximately the same number of cards of this game.
And every deck was exactly identical to the others, everyone who played green, or red, or whatever other color, had the same identical deck.
The only difference was the random factor due to the drawing.
In my opinion we'll see alot of improvement once more expansions come out and a diversification of decks.
You have to take in consideration that for now there are only 3 factions and only 2 commanders per faction (base without expansion).
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