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Martin G
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The one thing that sometimes frustrates me is the distant market, as I seem to have a habit of always drawing the -4 when I really need to make a sale, or the 0 when I want to crash the market before someone else gets there.

I don't want it to be totally deterministic though, that would be boring. Most of the 'markets' in the game are player-driven, and I'd really like a way to make the DM demand depend on player actions rather than just random tile-draw.
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Martin G
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Also, if this is a Yorkshire variant, the mills better be wool instead of cotton
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Martin G
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ldsdbomber wrote:
so, not like a one tile showing thing? how would you want the players to determine the market. Be based on the number of cotton mills in play or?

Yeah, something like that. I'm not the designer
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Tom Shields
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It'll be interesting to see what you've come up with. Hopefully the variant can maintain that sense of accelerated momentum that happens in the rail, derived from the simple rule of double-rail builds cranking up coal consumption, which in turn eats a bit of iron.

And if it becomes a wool distant market, we can call an early crash 'the silence of the lambs' after the speechless gape of the left-behind with unflipped wool factories on the board.

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Paulo Santoro
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Please if possible move this thread to "variants" forum.
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Randy Brown
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A number of the things you're hoping for are realized in the French map. You should definitely look to that for inspiration.


Quote:
- creating more opportunities to deny the early cotton rushers

This would change the game...a lot. I know you don't want to hear "the game is fine the way it is," but too much tinkering here could ruin it. Some suggestions (bearing in mind that I don't like this at all):

1) Make iron tougher (not many sites near coal mines or sumpin, or remove one space on the iron track, or add a level 0 iron works)
2) Add a low-level cotton mill
3) Rejigger the DM so that there are fewer sales (say 2-5 instead of 2-6)

Quote:
- encouraging more canal phase shipyard building

France does this by adding a canal-era site, so one can build both shipyards. This doesn't make ships a strong play, but it makes if less of a dog. Some other tweaks that might accomplish this:

1) More spaces (as above)
2) Friendlier spaces (w/ coal/port spaces)
3) Reduced cost (maybe $8?)
4) Remove one level 0 ship
5) Give the ships some sort of benefit (perhaps a single cotton sale for the owning player, or something along those lines)
6) Allow level 2 ships to be built in canal era (that would make ships very popular indeed)

-
Quote:
variation in iron availability and thus not always end up with kingmaking overbuilds at the end

I'm not entirely sure I follow you here, but again I'd recommend a look to France. Having iron/ spaces really shakes things up. Alternatively, you could inject some iron into the market between eras(but I really don't recommend it).

Quote:
- encourage even more blocking of spots with more dual industry spaces

As above, this is one thing I love about the France map. This is a great idea for making a new map have a different feel without needing to change any rules. Ideally, you should strive for this to make your 3p variant.

Quote:
- mitigate the rails rush in the second phase

I think that you should be cautious about changing this. It would be hard to get going in the rail era if there's less incentive for players to rebuild the links. If you must, try upping the cost of the double build ($16? $17?). I really think that you'll want to avoid changing this part of the game, unless you intend to have unowned links show up to push connectivity in the rail era.

Quote:
- shake up the external market (face up? 1 tile look ahead? something new?)

This would be a fun variant to explore. I agree with the above comment that it would be nice to see this pegged by play moreso than random draw.

Overall, I welcome the development of another board. I would especially appreciate it if you did it in a way that allowed it to be played with existing cards/components. I personally like 3p Brass quite a bit, but I could see how tightening it up might be a fun exercise. The big issue is that there are well-defined roles for players in 4p Brass, but not in 3p. The extra turns, and the need for less specialization make for a sloppier-feeling game. Your goal should really be to create 3 well-defined roles. Perhaps you can jigger it so that there is one strong cotton rusher, one I&C + ships guy, and one ports guy, with less need for each to bleed over into another sector (there should still be a little bleed over).

Good Luck,

R
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Jon G
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Goleta
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Color me interested. A handful of ideas:

- Encourage ships as is done on the French map, with 2 canal-accessible sites. If you don't want quite that many ships, you could have one of the spaces be port, port/ship
- Reduce iron overbuilds by having more iron sites, or them being more accessible than Barrow. Fewer overbuilds will happen if it's easier to find a free iron site.
- Another variant distant market option: Shuffle the tiles and place them face up. When you ship to the DM, you can either take the tile on the top (which you can see) or the bottom (which you can't). That gives the players both more knowledge and more control.
- If you want to hurt cotton rushers, increase the cost of iron. Likewise, increasing coal will slow the rail rush. Perhaps you could have fewer coal sites and/or start the market at $2. You could have a 2/2/3/3/3/4/4/4 market.
- Note features that distinguish Yorkshire industry from Lancs. Try to tweak the mechanics to capture a piece of that.
- You might playtest having nine turns per age. I'm not sold on this, since 10 turns seems to force you to diversify more than in the 4p game, so 9 might not. But that alone would make a tighter 3p game.
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Liam Liam
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Moved to variants
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Paul Smith
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Long Beach
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qwertymartin wrote:
I don't want it to be totally deterministic though, that would be boring. Most of the 'markets' in the game are player-driven, and I'd really like a way to make the DM demand depend on player actions rather than just random tile-draw.

Here's an idea:
Make the foreign demand reduce a number of steps equal to the level of the flipped cotton mill. (or the level of the flipped cotton mill +1, or *2, etc.)
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Martin G
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Cool idea!
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Kester J
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SaiSaysPlayGo wrote:
qwertymartin wrote:
I don't want it to be totally deterministic though, that would be boring. Most of the 'markets' in the game are player-driven, and I'd really like a way to make the DM demand depend on player actions rather than just random tile-draw.

Here's an idea:
Make the foreign demand reduce a number of steps equal to the level of the flipped cotton mill. (or the level of the flipped cotton mill +1, or *2, etc.)


Hmm, doesn't this kind of go against the idea of denying early cotton rushers though? One way to hinder the "2-3 level 3 mills in canal" strategy in canal era is to sell cotton from level 1s just to bottom out the market and force them to sell through ports (preferably yours!). This variant would seem to pretty much guarantee a level 3 sale or two to the distant market.

I'm not sure I have a better suggestion though!
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Jon G
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Would it make any sense for the local steel industry to have its own demand, that competes with wool industries? It would be a big, big change, but what if, before each turn, one iron is consumed by the steel industry? That would let you leave the coal/iron market unchanged (it effectively starts at the second $1 space), and indirectly consumes coal as well.

If you do this (it sounds awesome to me, but needs lots of playtesting), you definitely need to add more iron sites than normal. Color me interested in the playtesting. I've been looking for more excuses to play Brass on a board.
 
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