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Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game» Forums » General

Subject: Greeks seriously over the top? rss

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Xipheas Pierterson
England
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Yesterday I played a three player game with the cultures from the expansion. The Greeks' ability to research techs for free if they are the first to unlock them meant that the Greek player was able to choose carefully and unlock 5 level I techs immediately. From then on there was nothing to stop him continuing up the pyramid unchallenged, whilst having his cities bolster his army.

We could see no way to stop him winning, and so we abandoned that game.

Did we miss something?
 
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Mikko Karvonen
Finland
Tampere
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5 level I techs immediately? From the way you phrase the situation, that sounds like the problem right there. Even with their special ability, the Greeks can only research one tech each round (except with Culture cards or by conquering cities).
 
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Xipheas Pierterson
England
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My fault: I phrased that badly. They only unlocked 1 tech per turn, but none of them cost any trade as neither of the other players owned them. From that point on, there was clearly no way to stop the player as they never needed to spend any trade on tech!
 
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Tom Cannon
United States
Annapolis
Maryland
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IIRC the Greeks must pay Trade if the tech was previously researched or currently researched by another player. Since research is done simultaneously it means the Greeks must continue to outguess what other players are researching each turn in order not to pay Trade for their own research.
 
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Mikko Karvonen
Finland
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It still shouldn't be a decisive factor. True, the Greeks can then keep researching pretty much unopposed, but they still have to turn that into a win. Military victory against them will be difficult, but culture and money victory conditions are very reachable before the Greeks can complete their pyramid.
 
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Xipheas Pierterson
England
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It was Greeks versus Indians and Arabs if I recall. The Indians need 2 turns to research 1 level I tech (3 trade per turn at start I think). The Arabs are also fairly slow to start with trade. This means that by turn three the Greeks are 1 tech ahead of the Indians, and by turn five are two tech cards ahead.

By the time that the Greeks had a couple of level II techs, we realised that 10 more turns was all it would take for them to win (1 tech per turn, every turn), in other words 15 turns from start to end. I haven't played this game much yet, but I can't see how you can get a culture or economic victory as quickly as that.

Maybe I've misinterpreted a rule somewhere, but we did take some time to stop and think about this and we couldn't see where we'd gone wrong!
 
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mike christiansen
United States
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We ran into the same issue the first time we played. The Greeks seemed overpowered, but the Greek player barely won because he almost got invaded on the last turn of the game. If we had moved on him sooner or if the Russian player had not vengefully locked down the Americans before they could attach the Greeks they would have lost.
 
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Daniel Hammond
United States
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It still takes 14 turns barring some other tech gaining mechanism (such as culture cards, investing or great person help) and the game should end some other way by then.
 
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Ricardo Donoso
Brazil
RIBEIRÃO PRETO
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Think of Tech victory as a game clock. You need at least 10 turns to win by science, But usually economic And culture happen before turn 10.
 
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Justin B
United States
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Don't forget that on the first turn, you get trade during the setup step, and then more trade during the trade phase. This should allow almost all civs to research on turn 1 (except in certain starting locations). It's not clear if you did this based on your description of the game.

If the Greek player unlocked 5 level I techs before unlocking any level II techs, the Greek player should have lost. Concentrate on increasing trade as much as possible and get the higher level techs. In general, I find any 4th and 5th level I techs that I acquire to be inconvenient occupiers of space at worse, filler most of the time, and rarely a small bonus at best. Consider that you need 15 coins to win via economic victory. If you acquire 2 coins per turn on average, you will win by turn 8. It's much easier to get multiple coins per turn compared to technologies.
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Xipheas Pierterson
England
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Thanks for all your answers. I'll try again with the Greeks in the future and see how we get on!

Justin B - Yes, we did get trade twice the first turn.
 
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Mark Bauer
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Xipheas wrote:
By the time that the Greeks had a couple of level II techs, we realised that 10 more turns was all it would take for them to win (1 tech per turn, every turn), in other words 15 turns from start to end. I haven't played this game much yet, but I can't see how you can get a culture or economic victory as quickly as that.


Go and read some other posts here in the forum. You will see one constant: The majority of players end games of Civilization on turn 8-10. The main purpose of the tech victory is as a game clock, as mentioned before. So if you don't win with culture/military/coins before round 15 (which is very likely) the tech victory makes sure that the game ends at least after the 15th round.

If you "can't see how you can get a culture or economic victory as quickly as" round 15 you definitely play too slow.
So just keep playing and you will soon find out by yourself
 
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Zach Rivenbark
United States
Florida
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wtcannonjr wrote:
IIRC the Greeks must pay Trade if the tech was previously researched or currently researched by another player. Since research is done simultaneously it means the Greeks must continue to outguess what other players are researching each turn in order not to pay Trade for their own research.


OR get far enough ahead that you as Greece are always getting to pick whichever tech you want, because you're always 1 tier ahead of every other player...

MUAHHAHAHHA!!
 
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