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Subject: Feedback on card art. rss

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Scribe Life
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I launched a card game called Goblin Pit Fight a couple days ago on Kickstarter. I posted the artwork in a survey and would love honest feedback. I am also not asking for your time for free. In the general comments field at the bottom of the survey, put in your BGG handle and on Sunday I will post 2 random winners that will get a copy of the game whether or not the Kickstarter project is successful.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1284196867/goblin-pit-fi...

Thanks in advance for your honest feedback,
Corey Papastathis
Scribelife LLC
 
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Liam Liam
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Moved to Press Releases.
 
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Ian Toltz
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Not a fan of this art style, but it's decent enough.

It really, really bugs me that you're using Papyrus as the font, though. I'd recommend changing to a font that isn't horribly overused.
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M Joyce
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Diamond Bar
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I'm really not a fan of the artwork at all honestly.
 
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Scribe Life
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Thanks to both of you for taking a look. Anything in particular about the art, or just not your style?

The font wasn't Papyrus, but similar enough I guess.

I played with some others in dev but they seemed too busy. Here they are anyway:
 
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Trace
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I completed the survey and offered the reasons for my decicions.

#1. Love the backgrounds.

#2. Font is annoying when used for anything but titles-it is to difficult to read when used as text. this limits who will buy your game, a solution could be to fade the background or just have text on a plain coloured b/ground.

#3. I don't like this kind of artwork personally. Appears 3D and after looking at for awhile messes with your perception. Also looks like a bad photo-shop. I appreciate all the work you have done on it.


Many people including myself are first attracted to a game by the art work, unfortunately I would put this back on the shelf. First impressions are very important if you want to be competitive[ It is a very big pond with a few large fish]. But if this was the look you were aiming for - great.
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Samantha RD
South Africa
Harrismith
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The goblins look like they were copy pasted from a computer game, and the effect is very unappealing. Would it be possible to have these painted by an artist instead?

I know that's a harsh opinion, but it is my honest one. Good luck with the game.
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Johan Haglert
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Too be fair Summoner wars also look 3D-renderish. I thought it actually was rendered there to but when I looked at it that got me thinking that maybe it wasn't. Maybe it's drawn to look "natural" or possibly drawn from a rendered 3D-model.


Likely quite a bit of work with both (rendered or drawn) choices.

I can't say I'm a fan of it either but I can understand why people would use it out of their own skill and experience and so on.

For some awesome Goblin card art look at Gosu:




But how many games got that kind of artwork?
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Mark Travers
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It looks like screenshots from a video game, rather than art designed for a card game.

Keep in mind I'm sharing my opinion, which will have a slight bias.

The tribal cards' text is a bit blurry, some of the backgrounds are nice, if a bit busy; forest, ice and mountain. Fire is completely uninteresting. It might as well be a black background.

The 3D models, and the textures used, really make me feel like this was all snapshot from a game. I am not sure what your intent was though.

Perhaps consider changing the textures to a more "cell-shaded" look, or somehow make everything appear more "hand-drawn." That might be more appealing in an aesthetic way.

The symbols on the corners really do not stand out enough. I almost didn't notice them at all. Perhaps bring them to the front a bit more with less "fade."

Another option might be to "zoom" in on the cards' characters. Maybe having more focus on them, rather than them and the background, will make the cards appear more like the characters they represent.

The fire wound binder caught my attention, but I had to study it for a bit to understand the humor of what he was doing.

The fire trapper looks like he is holding fire-pooh...

Mountain war mage looks more like a sculptor than a mage.

Forest war mage looks like he's a bad lumber jack.

In general, many of the pictures are really hard to link to the titles of the cards.

You've obviously worked hard on this, so I don't presume to tell you anything but my opinion in this matter. Good luck!
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Mark Travers
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aliquis wrote:
Too be fair Summoner wars also look 3D-renderish. I thought it actually was rendered there to but when I looked at it that got me thinking that maybe it wasn't. Maybe it's drawn to look "natural" or possibly drawn from a rendered 3D-model.


Likely quite a bit of work with both (rendered or drawn) choices.

I can't say I'm a fan of it either but I can understand why people would use it out of their own skill and experience and so on.

For some awesome Goblin card art look at Gosu:




But how many games got that kind of artwork?


The Summoner Wars cards are definitely hand-done artwork. I have one friend who has a style very nearly like that shown on the cards you posted. :-)
 
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Matt Lee
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At a quick look, the font is stylish, but the problem with stylish fonts is that often they are legible only for quick titles and headlines and not for extended reading, so using the font for the names of the cards and the headlines of each section in the summary card works, but it becomes hard to read halfway down that card when it is the same font, font size, and font weight. It needs to have distinct sections to also make the categories stand out at a glance besides the use of just spacing.

The colors for the backgrounds are just far too vivid and look like someone just pasted it as-is in Photoshop without using fades or transparency, so the text and icons all blend in and become unreadable, like nearly all of the Fire Tribe cards have problems with the names of the cards (being overwhelmed by the lava coloring) and the numbers in the upper corner (the white doesn't contrast with the red enough).

Related, the icons on the Mountain tribe cards need to be light to contrast the dark background.

In fact, not using outlines or other triks to contrast the important things just hurts the cards and they are less useful than plain text prototypes with no artwork.

The problem with the artwork isn't that they look like they are out of a game, but more that they look like the way cheap tv animated shows appear. Low polygon count and hard edges of the models along with higher resolution pre-rendered backgrounds makes it look amateurish and is associated with cheaply done work despite the amount of time it takes to actually do.

Hope this helps!
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Scribe Life
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First off. Thank you very much for taking the time to take the survey and then have a discussion about the Kickstarter. Though disheartening, the feedback is absolutely appreciated. The good news is, with 39 days left in the project, I have time. I spent all morning brainstorming other ideas about improving the artwork.

There are suggestions here about making the current artwork better (highlights, zooms, frames for text, making the icons more visible)

There is an overwhelming opposition to having 3d style renders at all, which makes me wonder if I should try a different take on artwork altogether.

I could lean more toward a traditional playing card deck and focus on creating awesome tribal symbols to represent game mechanics. This might actually get me more of the backers that back other USPCC playing card decks, which all seem to do well on KS.

I could try to bring on a non-digital artist and lean more toward a MTG feel.

However, I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I am going to let the data collection run its course. I posted the survey with a deadline and game give away for Sunday. So as much as I want to start drafting up new ideas right now, I think I will wait to get more respondents before taking action.

The awareness brought by your feedback and continued conversations is invaluable. Thank you for supporting me on this.
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Gregory Kikola
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Is there any way that the information on the tribal cards could be reduced or made easier to parse? They are really dense with information. Text is hard to read as well.
 
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Scribe Life
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Four more hours and I'll choose the two feedback winners. The feedback so far has been very helpful.
 
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Scribe Life
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Since BGG was down last night, I didn't get a chance to post winners.
Again thank you all for your feedback, I will be posting some alternative art options on the project this evening.
The winners were Amryn and Joose for the free copies of the game.
 
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Scribe Life
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The Artwork Survey Results

To be honest, I was shocked by the results of the survey. There were only a few people who loved it as is. The highest ranked card was the Fire Wound Binder and the lowest was the Mountain Trickster. Some of the comments were pretty harsh, but I am thankful for every one. In response I have come up with the three options below. Please note that these are concepts only. They were done quickly to respond quickly to the survey. However, I think they can demonstrate the different possible directions. With 36 days to go, I feel that there is plenty of time to rework art without delaying delivery by going in one of these directions.

1. Keep the CG, redo lowest scoring cards, and add in the suggestions from the survey (Zoom in on characters, make icons bigger, make text stand out more.)


2. Go with 2D art and try a simpler tribal feel. (Please remember that this is a mock up for style.)


3. Go with a normal playing card deck feel with added icons to facilitate game mechanics.
 
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Ernie Barrett
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I think anything is better than the current lot of cards. I would prefer a better graphical design and better digital art.
 
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Justin B
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The middle one could be interesting if it's colored correctly. Not a fan of the font though, I like the font on the first one.
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Eric Etkin
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IMO, the middle is the way to go. Much more pro looking than what you originally had. Get a less cliched font and some good coloring, and I think you might be onto something.

FWIW, I personally think rendered art has its place in gaming... but I agree with others' sentiments that the rendered art you have is not nearly pro looking enough. It has a distinct "90's video game cut scene" look to it, and that's not whre you want to be.

Also - reconsider the black borders. Your design may look better without them, especially if you go with option 2, and given the tolerances some printers have, you may be asking for trouble by using them.
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Trace
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MOTHDevil wrote:


Also - reconsider the black borders. Your design may look better without them, especially if you go with option 2, and given the tolerances some printers have, you may be asking for trouble by using them.


I agree [ now that you mention it] the borders on these prototypes do seem very thick I would like to see it with borders though, possibly another colour [ the green you have used is effective] and thinner. A suggestion could be one ore two thin lines or a bone or spear shape could be used. I do like the game concept, good luck with your K/S.
 
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Scribe Life
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Thank you all for your feedback.

Here is what we came up with and basically re-branded the project:




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Eric Etkin
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You're getting closer. I think you need some light texturing and more color for the icons... what you have right now is much too monochromatic, unless that's intentional from a cost-saving standpoint.

If I have a second on my lunchbreak or when I get home tonight, I'll fiddle with what you have posted here.
 
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Justin B
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That's not really the color style I was thinking of.

I was thinking something like this (but darker) on the entire card, except the center: http://image1.masterfile.com/em_w/03/99/18/400-03991854w.jpg


You want a style that is easy on the eyes, the color and font style is too hard on the eyes.
 
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Scribe Life
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Thanks for the continued help everyone.

Soulchief, I couldn't get to the file you posted.

 
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Justin B
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Ahh, not sure why it doesnt work anymore, heres another example: http://l.rgbimg.com/cache1r8HE9/users/b/ba/ba1969/600/nbKnXE...
 
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