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Subject: What would you have done if you were a human in this situation? rss

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Haon Green
United States
Dist of Columbia
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I just got the BSG game and convinced some friends to play. All of us were newbs but I had at learnt all the rules so I functioned as rules mentor and lawyer.

Here were our characters

Tigh (Cylon from start, revealed before sleeper phase)
Kara (Sympathizer after sleeper phase, in brig)
Roslin (Cylon after sleeper phase)
Baltar (Human-Me)
Lee Adama (Human)
Bill Adama (Human)

Our most interesting aspect of our session happened after the sleeper phase, when everything went to hell in a handbasket.

First, Kara got the sleeper agent card. Our population was very low (I believe it was at four) and so she ended up in the brig.

Then Bill Adama drew the crisis that we failed. Part of the failure meant that all humans in the armory got sent to the brig. Both Bill Adama and my character (Baltar) were in the armory at the time so we were sent to the brig.

So in two turns, 3 players end up in the brig.

This then passed the Admiral title to Lee Adama.

Tigh is a revealed Cylon but only activates some raiders, nothing significant.

Next is Lee Adama’s turn, again nothing of note. But after Lee is Roslin.

Roslin uses a Quorum card to put Lee Adama in Prison. We then realize who the 2nd Cylon is. Roslin however, won't reveal she is a Cylon, so stays President under incredibly fortunate circumstances. Roslin was still drawing crisis cards and could use her special ability to choose the worst crisis card for the entire fleet.

Also, because all the other humans and sympathizer were in the brig, this gave Roslin (our Cylon in all but declared state) the Admiral title.

So as long as Roslin kept protesting her innocence, we were constantly getting defeated in skill checks to get out of the brig with both the destiny deck and Roslin playing cards to reduce our scores.

(Now my girlfriend was playing Roslin and so she had loads of fun with this entire situation. It was indeed hilarious.)

But while the President-Admiral was sending the fleet to its doom, the rest of us were in a grueling and painful situation. I was only able to get out of the brig by eventually whittling down Roslin’s skill cards, Roslin deciding to declare herself to be a Cylon, and then being able to finally pass the skill check to get out.

While fun, we ultimately ended the game early since by then we had played for about five hours, everyone were tired, and a lot of energy had been sapped with futile attempts to play cards in the brig.

A few questions for people who might know better strategy:

1) Were we right to make Roslin the Admiral once all of us were in the brig? I assume so, but want to be sure.

2) Is there a smarter strategy we should have adopted when all the humans were in the brig, and an unrevealed but very obvious Cylon was both President and Admiral?

Curious for feedback. Had a lot of fun, but was a little demoralized by how the game changed with all the humans in the brig and with our Cylon-Admiral-President running the show.
 
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Tim Sansone
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1. Yes, as the only human or unrevealed Cylon not in the brig, she became PresAdmiral.

2. I've been in similar circumstances as a human in one game. After 2 or 3 unsuccessful attempts for the brigged humans to break out, we offered to concede. It's darn near impossible to win when all humans are in the brig and there is an unrevealed Cylon as PresAdmiral.
 
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Mooseared Ferenczy
United States
Athens
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Your cylons played well and you got hosed. That can happen. One thing that is recommended by just about anyone who plays the game is that you use the No Sympathizer variant found on the official site's variant rules. Other than that, I can't really say anything you did was strategically foul.
And yes, Roslin should've been the admiral as long as she was unrevealed. If she had revealed at some point while you were all in the brig, Adama would have gotten the title until someone got out.
 
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ackmondual
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It ain't pretty, but you pretty much "fight them until you can fight no more". Brig skill check is 7YP, so at best, Roslin's only got 2 green cards to play negative per round of turns. Tight would also only have 2, but as a revealed cylon, he's likely to draw red as a generally negative color. If he drew any blue, see if Starbuck or Baltar can play a SR to make blues count positive, effectively nullifying that color. If you have the cards, consider XO-ing each other so that you can get 2 attempts per turn. Even with all humans putting in one card, you're bound to get lucky. If there were any good cards, consider having Adama using his OPG to swoop them up.

P.S., in future situations, make sure Starbuck used her OPG to force Roslin to draw a new crisis card. IIRC, she still gets to draw 2 new ones, but at least it's one less bad crisis card you'd have to deal with.
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Cameron McKenzie
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Did you not have the cards for the crisis that brigged you or was it a spike by Roslin?

Don't to too eager to pass every crisis... It is very good to let your hand build up so you can deal with those that are highly dangerous, even if it means letting a few slide.
 
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Chris Franka
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We try never to bunch in the same location for the exact reason you mention. The chance of a bad crisis card leading to a double brig without costing a reveal power or an Arrest Order or even a Cylon drawing damage tokens and sending two people to sickbay is almost never worth what you would gain by having two characters in the same space at the same time. Spread out. We also usually head over to Colonial One so that the Cylon reveal power can't brig us.

Sounds like you got the rules right, but I think once all of you ended up in the brig, the game was essentially over unless the humans were waaaaaay ahead at that point. You're not going to win when you don't draw crisis cards (in other words, the jump track doesn't move), when you have a known Cylon spiking checks and no one can counteract them, and the Cylons are steering the ship. The best advice is not to figure out how to get out of that situation, it's to look back and see what you can do to avoid getting into that situation in the future.

The second best advice is to do as you did and put away the game when no one is enjoying it anymore. You don't want the game to be remembered as "that game that went late into the night that no one was really enjoying." It might never hit the table again.
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Pasi Ojala
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bigtex01 wrote:
once all of you ended up in the brig, the game was essentially over unless the humans were waaaaaay ahead at that point.


But there are advantages and not everything is lost unless the game is already more or less decided at that point.

Only one player out of the brig lets you build up the hands very quickly, because there is only one crisis per round (or two if there are also unrevealed cylons and they feed crises by activating Caprica). When humans are ready with enough cards in hand, XO each other to break out of the prison. Because the current player plays into the check last, you can deplete the cards from any unrevealed cylon's hand. If they play cards, do not play yourself. So, breaking out will happen rather sooner than later.

Last night we had a game that had one human player in the brig for the most of the second half. There was no reason or time to get her out, because most things could be still be accomplished with her in the brig. She could play strategic planning and XO. Unfortunately we had also two revealed cylons playing back-to-back causing some lost civilian ships, but managed a win with 1 pop (dropped to 1 after one unfinished personal goal).


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Robert
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Everything Pasi says is true, but the problem that the game will drag and become boring remains. This is my single biggest gripe with an otherwise wonderful game.
 
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ackmondual
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umbaci wrote:
Everything Pasi says is true, but the problem that the game will drag and become boring remains. This is my single biggest gripe with an otherwise wonderful game.
But this is more widespread than anything else....


--People become upset and bored when they realize they're a human yet again for the 12th game, and being only a cylon once so far.
--some people don't enjoy being cylons, period
--there's the problem with how some people don't like being symps
--Even with the no-symp variant, the game can become too easy for the humans


I've had games where things did drag... you pretty much have to make a judgement call on whether or not to start a new game, or go on. I've had a game where someone wanted to quit b/c the humans got slammed by 2 super crisis cards that they both failed (I admit, I was neutral... I wasn't pressing to quit, but nor to go on either :\). Good thing we didn't quit, as humans still pulled a win. In another game, we were pretty much gonna lose, but decided to make things as dififcult for the cylons as possible. Legendary Discovery saved our asses.

EDIT: typos that never got fixed
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Robert Stewart
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In the words of Commander Peter Quincy Taggart: "Never give up! Never Surrender!"

Okay, if the rest of the group is sufficiently demoralised, I'm not going to force them to play on, but if it's up to me, I'll play it out - and the games where you get absolutely hammered and then somehow pull a victory out of nowhere make for the best stories.

It's the games where humans take out the initial Cylon ships easily (by jumping, or the old-fashioned way) and then nothing much happens for the rest of the game that really suck the fun out of it for me (particularly if I'm stuck as a Cylon trying to find something, anything to slow the humans down)
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Pasi Ojala
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rmsgrey wrote:
the games where you get absolutely hammered and then somehow pull a victory out of nowhere make for the best stories.


Yeah. Most of the time you never know until the game is actually and truly finished. And the games where you struggle gives the best teachings. Simply getting the right jump destination (or a suitable crisis or an exodus/pegasus skill card) can turn the game from hopeless to possible.

At the end some games are even so close that an extra turn or a missing/existing XO would've turned the game to humans or cylons.

We nowadays play with base+pegasus+exodus. However, the base game is more tolerant of a pilot turning cylon, and there are less options for cylons (can only draw+use upto 1 super crisis), so if you have encountered a few cylon attacks and lived, although with few resources left, you can still play a bit further to see where the game is going.

Our closest win this far has been with a skill-check of value 22 (so I think it was a super crisis). By passing the check the humans would've won (using FTL control on the next turn, cylons managed to damage FTL control once, but it was fixed quickly). Failing the check would've given a cylon win by resources. The skill check total count was 21, and cylons won.
 
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ackmondual
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Also, this wasn't an "early quit" situation, but I've witnessed a CL who managed to get his agenda fulfilled b/c the fleet ended up doing nothing but jumps of three 1s, and remaining 2's. The humans couldn't choose the last 3-distance due to fuel, so what would've been a quick game with little window of opportunity for the CL dragged out long enough for just that.
 
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Robert Stewart
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a1bert wrote:
Our closest win this far has been with a skill-check of value 22 (so I think it was a super crisis). By passing the check the humans would've won (using FTL control on the next turn, cylons managed to damage FTL control once, but it was fixed quickly). Failing the check would've given a cylon win by resources. The skill check total count was 21, and cylons won.


Sounds like the regular crisis Standoff With Pegasus - 22 points in 4 colours (not Engineering or Treachery) to avoid losing morale and population. The Super Crisis Fire All Missiles is the only super crisis with a 22 point check, and the fail destroys a pair of civilians - which could mean death by resources, depending on which civilians are left. The consequence effect of damaging Galactica, again, could hit a resource lethally, but neither is certain doom.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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rmsgrey wrote:
Sounds like the regular crisis Standoff With Pegasus - 22 points in 4 colours (not Engineering or Treachery) to avoid losing morale and population.


Too many games to remember them all... Certainly could've been that (and human win by auto-jump if it passed).

So, as long as there is any hope, keep fighting.

This reminds me of another game (a rare 3-player game), where fuel was at 1, and a revealed cylon was doing his best/worst. There was possibly a personal goal in play costing fuel passed by him. But I had scouting for fuel waiting to be played, and my partner picked Zarek after being half-purposefully executed. So, after our turns the fuel was up to 3, and he had to change his strategy.
 
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Rob Wiley
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Probably the biggest mistake was having 2 players in the armory. I assume you had your reasons - maybe the second person didn't have an XO and the boarding party was within striking distance of the end, which is just unlucky.
 
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Robert Stewart
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Kranse wrote:
Probably the biggest mistake was having 2 players in the armory. I assume you had your reasons - maybe the second person didn't have an XO and the boarding party was within striking distance of the end, which is just unlucky.


If you're really worried about a Centurion (and Quorum-mining for ABF isn't an option) then having two characters in the Armory is optimal - that way they both have someone to XO...
 
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ackmondual
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rmsgrey wrote:
Kranse wrote:
Probably the biggest mistake was having 2 players in the armory. I assume you had your reasons - maybe the second person didn't have an XO and the boarding party was within striking distance of the end, which is just unlucky.


If you're really worried about a Centurion (and Quorum-mining for ABF isn't an option) then having two characters in the Armory is optimal - that way they both have someone to XO...
Also helps protect against crisis cards that Brig the current player. I suppose A cylon player can try to brig someone on Armory, or do so for sure with that reveal power. Either way, the question to ask is how badly you really want the 2 Armory actions on an XO.
 
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