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R Moore
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GameSalute's ad on the Kickstarter wrote:
"Create-a-Game Kit (Project formerly known as Emperor's New Clothes.)"



So this whole time I was playing along with the game thinking that offering "blank components" with "ROOS" technology called "Emperor's New Clothes" was a clever ARG the designers were playing to generate a big buzz prior to releasing a real game.

I am a trusting person, especially of the gaming industry and was excited to see the reviews, looking for clues as to what the real game might be.

So the big reveal that was promised actually revealed that yeah... there was no big reveal, just a big (almost apologetic) justification on why you should send money ($25 - $ 70) on what actually is just a box of blank components.

So in the story, there was an Emperor with lots of money, Scam artists and a sham product. Am I wrong to assume in this analogy that the Emperor would be the purchaser of the game, the Scam artist would be the designer and the the "blank" game would be the invisible clothes? Liu, it seems like you're setting yourself up to be called a scam artist with this.. just saying.

Anyway, some of the clues that were dropped led me to believe that a "real" euro styled, worker placement, variable player power, game was to be "revealed". So I played along with the online RPG for a while. It was fun. I'm still sad that no board game had ever actually been developed but glad I didn't pay anything to play.

So thanks for the giggles. Good luck selling your novelty box of bits.

BTW, I don't believe this project qualifies for a Board Game anymore.. I'd be in favor of leaving it on BGG just for historical purposes though.
Edit: I stand corrected there are plenty of games entries for games with blank components. This just happens to be the only one sold under the name "create-a-game kit" .
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Tiamat
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Well, the reveal did offer a set of rules. Just not the art to play them. I don't think the rules seem that promising though. Die-rolling for resources plus Citadels-style role selection.

I think Game Salute was behind it to promote GameBits. I searched on their site for the term but don't get results (yet)... I enjoy buying bits, sure...
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Jonathan Liu
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Hi, Oliphant,

I think the reveal is consistent with what I've been saying in the updates all along, and the analogy to the Emperor's New Clothes has been there from the beginning.

Just curious: did you check out the ruleset that actually describes the roles and how they work and interact? The truth is, no ARTWORK has actually been developed beyond the logo, but there WAS a board game developed. I played it several times at PAX, and plan to play it some more today.
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Jonathan Liu
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FYI, the "Rocket Dice" Kickstarter (tied to Alien Frontiers) is Game Salute's first official GameBits release. I don't believe they've got GameBits listed on the site yet.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/springboard/rocket-dice
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Hmm, I hope they don't kickstart all their bits?? It would take forever to accumulate much selection.
 
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R Moore
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jhliu wrote:
Hi, Oliphant,

I think the reveal is consistent with what I've been saying in the updates all along, and the analogy to the Emperor's New Clothes has been there from the beginning.

Just curious: did you check out the ruleset that actually describes the roles and how they work and interact? The truth is, no ARTWORK has actually been developed beyond the logo, but there WAS a board game developed. I played it several times at PAX, and plan to play it some more today.


Yeah but that's a different game entirely.. to play that game you need to have role written on cards. You even say as much in your post, that the reviewers were playing a different game and if people like they could make the game described in the PDF by writing on their new components. So you can't actually play the game in the PDF without ruining the ENC components.

Alternatively, the game described in your pdf could be made. That might be cool.
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R Moore
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jhliu wrote:
FYI, the "Rocket Dice" Kickstarter (tied to Alien Frontiers) is Game Salute's first official GameBits release. I don't believe they've got GameBits listed on the site yet.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/springboard/rocket-dice


Those look cool. All the custom dice kickstarters look cool. But they're not sold as game. In the fable of ENC, scam artists tried applying a false label to something in order to sell it. The purpose of the fable? To teach people to be aware of the con and be aware of mass stupidity. Where do you see yourself in this fable Liu?

And to be clear, I enjoyed the Role Play aspect of the game very much! (while waiting for the real game to be revealed) It's been fun! But no one was swindled for money for nothing but invisible clothes up to this point. And that next part doesn't seem fun to me.
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scott Murray
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I declare 50 points for myself. I did forecast that the only thing we would get out of the reveal was the rules.

Just a shame I didn't put that in writing here for full credit and well deserved GG
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James To My Friends
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Woohoo! I'm very happy with the reveal, this is everything I thought it would be, and actually a little bit more.

Very excited now.
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khorgor wrote:
I declare 50 points for myself. I did forecast that the only thing we would get out of the reveal was the rules.

Just a shame I didn't put that in writing here for full credit and well deserved GG


You, sir, have 50 points! You earned them!
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Neil Ardron
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Well I for one believe that anyone that thought anything different was either a little naive or delusional
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Tom Razo
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That was a beautiful logo... and those were real components... right?
 
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I've been holding off. But now I've actually seen the game, I'm thinking of backing.
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R Moore
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khorgor wrote:
I declare 50 points for myself. I did forecast that the only thing we would get out of the reveal was the rules.

Just a shame I didn't put that in writing here for full credit and well deserved GG


It's worth one from me. My bet was totally on real game to be revealed...
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Jonathan Liu
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Oliphant wrote:
jhliu wrote:
Hi, Oliphant,

I think the reveal is consistent with what I've been saying in the updates all along, and the analogy to the Emperor's New Clothes has been there from the beginning.

Just curious: did you check out the ruleset that actually describes the roles and how they work and interact? The truth is, no ARTWORK has actually been developed beyond the logo, but there WAS a board game developed. I played it several times at PAX, and plan to play it some more today.


Yeah but that's a different game entirely.. to play that game you need to have role written on cards. You even say as much in your post, that the reviewers were playing a different game and if people like they could make the game described in the PDF by writing on their new components. So you can't actually play the game in the PDF without ruining the ENC components.

Alternatively, the game described in your pdf could be made. That might be cool.


I posted this in the other thread already, but I wanted to make the point again: to play the game described in the PDF, it's actually best NOT to write on the components. It's intended to be played with blank cards. Writing on the components will make it "easier" for some players but actually changes the nature of the gameplay significantly.

The hardest part at this point is that I can't sit down and actually play the game with you. CJ Winter has posted in another thread what happened when he actually made his own copy and introduced it to both experienced gamers and new gamers, and the fact is that sitting down and playing it gives you a much different experience than simply thinking about playing it. The first time I actually sat down to play the game with some friends, it surprised me, because what I thought might be a funny prank ended up being a really fun thing to play, onlookers or not.
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Jonathan Liu
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Oliphant wrote:
In the fable of ENC, scam artists tried applying a false label to something in order to sell it. The purpose of the fable? To teach people to be aware of the con and be aware of mass stupidity. Where do you see yourself in this fable Liu?


Obviously I cast myself in the role of the Swindler in the ARG aspect of the campaign—but it was intended to be such an obvious Swindle that it was immediately evident. The April Fool's joke was that, in fact, I was NOT selling you "nothing," but that there was actually something there.

Or perhaps I'm the Emperor, parading around in my new clothes, hoping that other people will admire them.

Or perhaps I'm the Child, pointing out the truth of the matter: that board games are all about make believe, that board games are nothing but cardboard and wood and plastic, and that they have significance only because we choose to give them significance.

Oliphant wrote:
And to be clear, I enjoyed the Role Play aspect of the game very much! (while waiting for the real game to be revealed) It's been fun! But no one was swindled for money for nothing but invisible clothes up to this point. And that next part doesn't seem fun to me.


Sorry, I'm not sure I understand that second-to-last sentence: "no one was swindled for money for nothing but invisible clothes up to this point." Are you saying that it would have been more fun if I actually swindled people, taking their money and then doing a bait-and-switch? I wasn't sure what that meant.
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Oliphant wrote:

So the big reveal that was promised actually revealed that yeah... there was no big reveal, just a big (almost appologetic) justification on why you should spend money on what actually is just a pile of blank components.




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jhliu wrote:
Oliphant wrote:
jhliu wrote:
Hi, Oliphant,

I think the reveal is consistent with what I've been saying in the updates all along, and the analogy to the Emperor's New Clothes has been there from the beginning.

Just curious: did you check out the ruleset that actually describes the roles and how they work and interact? The truth is, no ARTWORK has actually been developed beyond the logo, but there WAS a board game developed. I played it several times at PAX, and plan to play it some more today.


Yeah but that's a different game entirely.. to play that game you need to have role written on cards. You even say as much in your post, that the reviewers were playing a different game and if people like they could make the game described in the PDF by writing on their new components. So you can't actually play the game in the PDF without ruining the ENC components.

Alternatively, the game described in your pdf could be made. That might be cool.


I posted this in the other thread already, but I wanted to make the point again: to play the game described in the PDF, it's actually best NOT to write on the components. It's intended to be played with blank cards. Writing on the components will make it "easier" for some players but actually changes the nature of the gameplay significantly.

The hardest part at this point is that I can't sit down and actually play the game with you. CJ Winter has posted in another thread what happened when he actually made his own copy and introduced it to both experienced gamers and new gamers, and the fact is that sitting down and playing it gives you a much different experience than simply thinking about playing it. The first time I actually sat down to play the game with some friends, it surprised me, because what I thought might be a funny prank ended up being a really fun thing to play, onlookers or not.
You could post us a video of you teaching it to unsuspecting players.
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How is this a big reveal? It's pretty much everything I thought it would be. If there had been anything besides a game with blank components, it would have been false advertising. An ARG? Please. It's exactly what it said it would be
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jhliu wrote:
Obviously I cast myself in the role of the Swindler in the ARG aspect of the campaign—but it was intended to be such an obvious Swindle that it was immediately evident. The April Fool's joke was that, in fact, I was NOT selling you "nothing," but that there was actually something there.

Or perhaps I'm the Emperor, parading around in my new clothes, hoping that other people will admire them.

Or perhaps I'm the Child, pointing out the truth of the matter: that board games are all about make believe, that board games are nothing but cardboard and wood and plastic, and that they have significance only because we choose to give them significance.


Ambiguity is the refuge of incompetence.
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Corey Squire
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To be honest, I was a little disappointed that this was effectively a long interactive commercial for a blank components line. I enjoyed it more when it seemed like it was just being done for the laughs.
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Its always disappointing when you go home and realize Mardi Grass beads are just cheap plastic. In the end its the memories you created with them that are important.

Poliorcetes
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Poliorcetes wrote:
Its always disappointing when you go home and realize Mardi Grass beads are just cheap plastic. In the end its the memories you created with them that are important.

Poliorcetes
So Strip Emperor's New Clothes? Good idea.
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R Moore
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jhliu wrote:
Writing on the components will make it "easier" for some players but actually changes the nature of the gameplay significantly.

Yeah, like you were referencing the difference between Yoko Ono trust chess (all the same color pieces.. and you're just believing in each other rather than competing) and real chess. I get it. It could also be interpreted as someone just making stuff up on the fly trying to sell blank components... just saying.

jhliu wrote:

The hardest part at this point is that I can't sit down and actually play the game with you.

Well that's what reviews are for.. but the review you solicited showed a completely different game than the one you're describing in your PDF.

jhliu wrote:
..what I thought might be a funny prank ended up being a really fun thing to play, onlookers or not.

Funny prank is fun. Not worth $X to me though. (where x > 0)


jhliu wrote:
Oliphant wrote:
In the fable of ENC, scam artists tried applying a false label to something in order to sell it. The purpose of the fable? To teach people to be aware of the con and be aware of mass stupidity. Where do you see yourself in this fable Liu?


The April Fool's joke was that, in fact, I was NOT selling you "nothing," but that there was actually something there.

Nothing's the new something eh? You are selling your best efforts my friend, but I'm still not sold on the invisible game.


jhliu wrote:
... that board games are all about make believe, that board games are nothing but cardboard and wood and plastic, and that they have significance only because we choose to give them significance.

I think perhaps that's true of ROLEPLAY games you're thinking of. Board games typically exercise an entirely different part of the brain, logic, reasoning and strategic planning. Roleplay is more associated with creativity, imaginations, etc.. I like both. But this certainly is more about role play than actual strategic planning. Like you said in the update, rules lawyering just doesn't work when the components are blank. Neither does logic or planning, which is fine, I'm not detracting from role-play at all. I enjoy certain aspects of role play as well.


jhliu wrote:
Oliphant wrote:
And to be clear, I enjoyed the Role Play aspect of the game very much! (while waiting for the real game to be revealed) It's been fun! But no one was swindled for money for nothing but invisible clothes up to this point. And that next part doesn't seem fun to me.


Sorry, I'm not sure I understand that second-to-last sentence: "no one was swindled for money for nothing but invisible clothes up to this point." Are you saying that it would have been more fun if I actually swindled people, taking their money and then doing a bait-and-switch? I wasn't sure what that meant.


I'm saying I could endorse the Roleplay that we were doing believing a real game was coming.. but now that it seems like you're just making stuff up as we go along as a continued part of the game I can't say I endorse ENC as a good board game purchase. I've heard you describe at least 5 different games up to this point. All but one of them more "role play" than traditional (not included) table top. And you're playing your role like a champ. My interest remains because for me it's still a free game. I can't in good faith recommend people spend money on it though. Best of luck to you though.
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Jerome Lapointe
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Roy1138 wrote:
I personally don't understand how it got through kickstarter to begin with. But if someone is stupid enough to support it, they deserve what they get.

I agree, it's not a board game.
-It did not belong on Kickstarter's Table Top game section (Not as listed)
-It does not belong on BGG (not anymore than kitchen playsets, toy cars and legos)
-Anyone who backed this and regrets it is an idiot
-Anyone who backed this knowing what they were getting into needs to get a life.
-Anyone who played along with the meta-commentary for more than a day is a heck of a lot less clever than they think
-The creator of this Kickstarter / "Project" lacks judgement + all of the above.
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