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Subject: General tips rss

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phil v
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I'm guessing that there isn't more in this section because of the simplicity of this game. I've only played a handful of games so far, but have won consistantly. Without attributing cause for this, I'll share my thoughts on general good tactics.


1] Opening shape

It's not a good idea to directly connect your queen to the opponent. This makes it easier to be caught.

It's not a good idea to string your hive out into left field and add your queen at the end. This wastes resourcesin the form of the prior 3 plays, which are now immobile.

2] General shape

You can look at the hive al a creature with connective tissue and extremities. You want your opponent to be the former and to hold them in place by being the latter. The more thinly-stretched they are, the less liberty they have relative to you. Ants are ideal for holding this shape as they can respond to escape attempts the most flexibly.

3] Spiders

These should be used within the first 3 moves - preferably moves 1 and 2.

4] Ants and hoppers

These are for attack. Attack with the hopper rather than the ant if you can. This follows the general principle of using the weakest tool possible. If you can do the job with a spider, by all means, go for it.

I tend to play one of these as my 3rd move, in preperation for an attack in move 5.

5] Beetles

These are great for closing the deal in the end game. They're hard to block when played two steps from the opposing queen. At worst, the opponent latches on in an effort to block an otherwise slow piece.

6] Queen and home shape

When under attack, it generally helps to wiggle further out on the limb and stretch the number of opponent pieces connecting your queen to the hive. Conversely, when attacking the queen, don't allow her to escape. Here are two ways to do it. (1) Surround her in a triangular formation on alternating faces of her piece. (2) When attack the furthest position from other opponent pieces that are contacting her. If you cannot do #1, and pursue #2, be sure to have another piece at the ready in case the opponent attempts to bridge around the queen and facilitate her escape. Ultimately, you need that triangular position.

7] Generally-speaking, be offensive.

Not rude, just aggressive. ;-) Make them think about their home and get your pieces in play.



That's it. Not the best advice, but a starting point.
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John Yianni
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Phil's advise on tactics here are all very good and will help new players into the game without them losing all the time and getting discouraged with Hive.
Add to this the balance of pieces (watching what your opponent has in his reserve) and the blocking of spaces as well as pieces and you will be able to play a well rounded game.

Hive, if played wrong will undoubtedly be perceived as broken and put off new players.

I recommend taking his advice.

Thanks
Phil

Regards
John
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laudemar gonzalez
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Phil claims that spiders should be used (preferably) in the first two moves. This means he will play this way if given the chance. Where are those who say playing a beetle first is the way to go???

Where are those who criticized my oppening and claimed it was a "mistake"? How come not one of them has come out and said the same about Phil's tactic/strategy? I'm sure the entire (Hive) boardgaming communtity would like an explanation for the inconsistency.

A bad tactic is a bad tactic, no matter who supports it, even if it be the game designer himself. If they believe a beetle played first is better, they should stand up and say so here as they did in my thread. Cheers!

P.S. By the way, Phil, I agree with you and think all of your advice is bang-on. For this reason, I have recommended your thread. Good job!
 
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John Yianni
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Laudemar
I never said that your strategy was bad, if I recall, I said it was good. I hope you did not take my comments the wrong way, they were never meant as criticism. Even on my website I say that spiders are good for early attacks when the hive is still small.
Maybe placing the Hopper first was not the best of moves, I prefer not to but If I was you I would try all kinds of openings to improve my game, even Hoppers first.
Even though I countered your strategy, my counter was not a guaranteed win for me.
I did follow the game on from there with pieces that I would have put next if I was you and I found that it was still anyones game. Thats why I said that you could still win.
I wouldn't take what others have said to heart, I think that they are just trying to help you play the game better. except of course for the one who said that he wanted to throw a piece at you, I don't know what that was about. He doesn't even own the game.
Thanks for all your input and I hope you will continue to post.
John
 
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pvgames,

Thanks for the excellent article! Definitely an excellent start for a new player.
 
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laudemar gonzalez
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John, please understand, I have no issue with you. You do not need to defend yourself. You showed an effective counter to my strategy and I acknowledged it. What I pointed out was that others who criticized my strategy because they claimed that using a beetle first is the best way to go and that using a grasshopper first is a mistake (not a bad choice, but a FLAT-OUT MISTAKE!) do not now stand up and claim the same thing here.

In other words, why was "my" thread blessed with their wisdom and not this one? That's all I want to know. The response "...they're all asleep or working." doesn't explain why they weren't asleep or working yesterday when they posted on "my" thread. Double standards abound! C*w*r*s! Cheers!

 
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laudemar gonzalez
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I challenge any fair-minded person to go through "my" threads and find something that can unequivocally be called a strategic or tactical error or falsehood. My thread on the beetle is fine. It clearly illustrates a (good) possible defensive use of a beetle to anyone who reads it properly. If you do not, will not or cannot, I can't help you. Cheers!
 
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laudemar gonzalez
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Why do you assume I was talking about you, Jeremy? Are you the center of all commentary? I wasn't talking about you. Are you paranoid? Your assumption is wrong, and your defense was completely unnecessary and a waste of time. In other words...you made a mistake. Cheers!
 
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laudemar gonzalez
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Read back, Jeremy. You will see that my grasshopper-first opening was referred to as a mistake/wrong. Everyone who's read these threads has seen it. You were wrong. Period. I've been wrong many times, I readily admit that. You were wrong this time. Deal with it. Cheers!
 
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laudemar gonzalez
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Read my June 27, 7 a.m. post. Read also Brad's post before it. If you still don't get it, stop trying. It's just not going to happen. Cheers!
 
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Brad Weage
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pvgames wrote:
I'm guessing that there isn't more in this section because of the simplicity of this game.


I think it also may be that the game is so tactical and reactive. That makes it hard to talk about general behaviors. Trying to describe a specific layout without pictures is complicated and prone to errors in reception and that makes it hard to even discuss a significantly complicated board position and what general lines of action can be employed from there. There is only so much you can say about a position with only two pieces. I'd much rather just play.

I hope that once we have on-line play between two humans available, that we will also have a tool that can be used to build a board position for discussion and that may allow more meaningful discussion of possible tactics within a given situation.

If on-line play wasn't on the way, from which we should be able to take screen shots, I think some sort of hex sheet with labeling of the hexes so that we could have a Hive equivalent of Chess notation - at least for setting up a scenario for discussion - would be useful. I'm unaware of someone proposing something like that for that purpose, but it seems so obvious that I expect someone has. I don't tend to read the newsgroups where I would expect something like that to have appeared. I was aware of the poor results when trying to embed ASCII game plans in text, but only marginally.

Also, my compliments. Useful stuff all. I could add a couple cautions here and there - but only because the more specific (and useful) an idea, the more chance there is for there to be other specific situations where it would be a bad line of play. But I think such additions would merely clutter up the straight-forward message. This will help the less experienced players considerably.

If part of your goal in posting was also to elicit comments that would act as expansions of your concepts, then I could offer the following:

You say "be offensive" and "get your pieces into play".

I tend to think more like "make every play be both offensive and defensive" and I would encourage less experienced players to try to think of situations where it would be advantageous to have less of your pieces in play than your opponent.

(Disclaimer: Including the above paragraph in no way suggests that I expect that the original poster did not think of this, or that he would be any less smart if he hadn't thought of it. If he hopes to elicit comments for either his own use or merely for that of the general geek population that is what I happen to have to offer, at the moment, off the top of my head.]
 
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