-=::) Dante (::=-
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ShawnI wrote:
I'll be trying this out the next time I play - but two questions:

1) I see that someone else raised the issue of the Scout - any other thoughts about how to handle that character?

I haven't done enough testing and scorekeeping to wholeheartedly recommend the alternate approach I posted, so Gene's suggestion is the best approach for now:

Scout rolls 6 dice and arranges the three levels, Dungeon Lord re-rolls one die on each level as the Party reaches it.

This has the benefit of keeping the Dungeon Lord active during each of the three levels which was of course one of the biggest inspirations for this entire undertaking!

ShawnI wrote:

2) Just to confirm: it is required that you re-roll the scroll die along with the other dice you re-roll, right? Because otherwise couldn't you just re-roll everything you didn't like except the scroll, then use the scroll again to re-roll everything that isn't perfect again, until you get everything you want?

You got it exactly right Shawn. This is why the phrasing is "include themselves in the re-roll" rather than "may include themselves".
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Gene Moore
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NuMystic wrote:
ShawnI wrote:
I'll be trying this out the next time I play - but two questions:

1) I see that someone else raised the issue of the Scout - any other thoughts about how to handle that character?

This has now been well tested and can be considered the standard way to handle the Scout when using this variant. (will update the OP now) Of course Gene's approach certainly works too if anyone prefers it.
Cool, I didn't know that anybody had been looking into it further.

I will say that my approach made those first 3 levels substantially more difficult than usual, because the Scout player couldn't do anything to counter-balance the impending re-rolls. In fact, it kinda defeated the thematic purpose of the Scout, so re-rolling up to 3 prior to arrangement sounds more reasonable.
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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lwdgames wrote:
NuMystic wrote:
ShawnI wrote:
I'll be trying this out the next time I play - but two questions:

1) I see that someone else raised the issue of the Scout - any other thoughts about how to handle that character?

This has now been well tested and can be considered the standard way to handle the Scout when using this variant. (will update the OP now) Of course Gene's approach certainly works too if anyone prefers it.
Cool, I didn't know that anybody had been looking into it further.

I will say that my approach made those first 3 levels substantially more difficult than usual, because the Scout player couldn't do anything to counter-balance the impending re-rolls. In fact, it kinda defeated the thematic purpose of the Scout, so re-rolling up to 3 prior to arrangement sounds more reasonable.

Actually Gene, I decided to edit that earlier comment because in hindsight I don't really feel less than a dozen plays qualifies as truly "well tested".

I can say that so far it "works" but it does still undermine the Scout's unique ability to a significant degree, though perhaps a bit less than your way. (need to do more score comparison)

A few more as-yet untested possibilities I've been considering are:

- Dungeon Lord gets to re-roll only 2 of the 6 dice and the Scout arranges the 6 dice as usual.

- Dungeon Lord re-rolls one die out of the initial 6. Scout arranges as usual. Dungeon Lord does not get a re-roll for Level 1, but re-rolls as usual when the party reaches levels 2 and 3. (which effectively means the Scout's first level choice is "safe")
 
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Chris Darden
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Just want to chime in and say this has all been really interesting to read. Thanks for this and keep it up!
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Jonathan bd
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Thanks for the variant!

Two games thus far (7 dice), scores:
Dragon slayer 22
Enchantress 24

Bard 18
Battle Mage 22
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Trevor Seabrook
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cbdarden wrote:
Just want to chime in and say this has all been really interesting to read. Thanks for this and keep it up!
I agree that this is an interesting read.
I've tested this out a few times, and don't personally like it too much.
In fact the thing I like the least is the Dungeon Lord's active role in things. Besides the awkwardness of having one set of rules for playing solo, and another for multiplayer.

Our group has actually started thinking of our games as kind of Co-Op. Exactly because of the fact that we are not working against one another (as there is almost no mechanism for actively working against one another). It's like a bunch of adventurers gathering at the Inn and sharing stories of their delves, with perhaps a bit of bragging rights for the guy who made away with the largest pile of loot.
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Disco Butcher
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Hi !
A good read - though for me a little to focussed on the 2 player game ...
I'll post something about multi player later.
BUT !
I'd propose to roll every scroll that is in the graveyard until a character turn up.
So there is a chance that you can revieve heroes with a potion that you did not roll in the first place.
 
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OrbitalBliss wrote:
Besides the awkwardness of having one set of rules for playing solo, and another for multiplayer.

Just want to clarify that all of the play-testers and most of those responding here are using the exact same rules for both solo and multiplayer games.

Glad to hear that you're enjoying the base game as-is!

Discobutcher wrote:

I'd propose to roll every scroll that is in the graveyard until a character turn up.

Using the full variant you would never have scrolls in the graveyard as they are re-rolled along with the other dice.
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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I love this variant. Solo played, I use the following rules to play a (un)fair Dungeon Lord.

1) Reroll a monster/chest set (2 or more of the same kind) if Adventurer has a Champion or the matching Companion.
2) Reroll potion
3) Reroll chest


Scout/Dungeoneer
34 points
Hero's ability: Rolled the 6 dices, Dungeon Lord rerolled 3 of them. Then Adventurer arranged them.


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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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I tried with the Viking, but not rerolling the dice when quaffing potion just doesnt work with that hero. First game I got 20 points and second game i got 16 points. Maybe change the starting 5 champions to 4 champions and 1 scroll.

EDIT: I tried the 4 champions + 1 scroll vikings and it brings that hero on par with the other heroes (23-26 points).
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Eric Aylward
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Why doesn't TMG incorporate this variant to make it part of the official rules in future editions of DR? It's that good
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Jack Bennett
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Played 2 games with the wife:

Guild Leader - 29
Paladin - 29
I won with fewer treasures.

Berserker - 27
Commander - 27
I won with fewer treasures again.

I like this variant a lot, and will probably only play it this way going forward. One question:

With the Dwarf he starts with 2 dice in the graveyard. In the old rules it wouldn't matter their face because if you ever got them back you'd reroll them. But in this, potions don't reroll, so the face you put them on matters. I feel like the Dwarf is pretty gimped, so I put them on the Champion side so that if I did get potions I could at least get a Champion back.

Is this how others would handle that? If not, what would you do?


 
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Seth Jaffee
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NuMystic wrote:

3) Thematic Potions

Potions no longer cost a die to quaff but can only be used to revive actual party members (not scrolls) from the graveyard without changing their die face.

This means they are now strictly for reviving spent party members and no longer an alchemical transmorgifier changing party dice into Champions the majority of the time a lone potion appears.
~~~

It sounds like people are really digging this variant! Thanks for posting it.

The thematic potions bit would make all potions Potions of Restoration... the way I look at it, a single potion is a Potion of Heroism, boosting up a regular party member (or squire) into a Champion (or whatever else you may want), while finding 2 potions means you found 1 Potion of Heroism and 1 Potion of Restoration. So thematically it never posed a problem for me. In fact, it seems reasonable that Potions of Restoration are harder to get and more rare than Potions of Heroism

Regarding Scrolls - one of the thoughts for expansion is to include different spells you can cast with the scrolls. The standard one is called Polymorph (not named in the base game, since there's only 1 spell), but there may be other spells in the future you can choose instead when rolling a Scroll. I think that will make Scrolls a lot more interesting in general.

Thanks again for the enthusiasm for Dungeon Roll, and for posting this awesome variant!
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Scott Johnson
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Has anyone created a rules summary card or sheet which incorporates this variant and which can be stored in the game chest? This would be great.
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Michael Pelish
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I just played a game with the variant.

Dwarf/Berzerker: 27
Scout/Dungeoneer: 23

We had the Dungeonlord roll 6 dice, reroll 3 dice and the Scout arranged them. It makes the Scout actually feel useful compared to the other method.
The game also brought up a question from us, if the dungeon lord rolls a dragon, can they reroll it? The rules about the dragon state that you immediately set it aside, but the Dungeonlord also immediately rerolls the dice. We eventually decided that if the Dungeonlord wanted to reroll a dragon they could and it worked out pretty well. The other player felt that with the buff, potions are really powerful and can really make things much easier on the delver with a bit of good luck. Sure, that's also somewhat countered by the Dungeonlord's reroll, but seeing the reroll turn out better for the player is somewhat frustrating because now the potions are just free good things and have no drawbacks.

EDIT: I just played a game as a solo Enchantress/Beguiler and I'm worried that she might be too good with this variant. I got 45, which was thanks to some lucky rolls, it's also because the enchantress makes great use of both scrolls and potions. Both of them being boosted seems to make her significantly more powerful. I'd have to see more results, but off of the game I've just played, she's very very good now.
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Jo Bartok
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Have to try this once it gets in.
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Al
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These new rules are great! The way Potions worked has always bothered me.
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fiveolddogs wrote:
Has anyone created a rules summary card or sheet which incorporates this variant and which can be stored in the game chest? This would be great.

Here you go:

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Jo Bartok
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U got more fun out of this? It sits on my shelf now
 
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Seth Jaffee
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ionas wrote:
U got more fun out of this? It sits on my shelf now
A friendly Dungeon Roll player:
Trey Van Dyke
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has put together Dungeon Roll Adventures, a variant that uses Dungeon Roll as the base and adds a RPG like framework around it. It is a non-linear, multiple ending quest that is a nice change from your one on one battles of Dungeon Roll.

Feel free to try it out!
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Damon Asher
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Just came to this thread thanks to the nice card posted by Cornixt. I like this variant a lot. I especially like how now rolling a single potion no longer equals the non-decision of "hero drinks potion, turns into a champion." This also nicely empowers the characters who let some heroes be used as different heroes.

I'll combine this with my own suggestion for making most treasures worth only 1/2 point, in order to encourage their use in delving deeper rather than hording.
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Damon Asher
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OK, just to report back after some more plays. This variant (along with our half point treasures variant) is the only way we play now. The decisions are more interesting, and it is remarkable how well this variant works with the character powers, in many cases making them even more interesting. We don't generally get much deeper into the Dungeon, so it seems very well balanced in relation to the original rules.
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Gary Bradley
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I really like the variant where players need to clear level 10 to win, but you can have as many delves as you need to build enough power to beat level 10.

As is the game produces far too many delves where the player quits at level 4, with 1 treasure (score = 5). But if you add the ability to spend experience in some way - as it is now rather meaningless - things get interesting. Perhaps you can use 3 exp to buy a treasure token between delves? This variant makes those otherwise bland level 4/5/6 delves more meaningful, and players who squeeze level 5 or 6 out of their earlier delves will have a deserved advantage over those who do not. This also adds the missing push your luck element to the extreme...saved up a half dozen treasure tokens? Is this the delve you blow them all and go for it?!

Might run out of tokens in a 4-player game though.
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Gary Bradley
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Having re-read this thread with care, I am going with the following ruleset:

1. A player needs to clear level 10 to win the game. The first player to do so wins immediately. Any number of delves may be undertaken by the players until this happens.

2. Experience tokens are earned after each delve as normal. They are now treated like currency. 5 of them can be spent to level up the Hero, or 3 of them can be spent to draw a random Treasure token, or 5 for 2 random Treasure tokens. If not spent they can be saved by their owner until needed. In this way players will gradually become more powerful with each delve, giving a nice sense of progress.

3. When rolling the initial party, if the player rolls no Scrolls and no Champions, he may re-roll his party ONCE. He must re-roll every white dice if he chooses to do this, and he must accept the second party rolled.

3. At the start of each new level, the Dungeon Lord may now re-roll a number of black dice that are not Dragons. The number he can re-roll depends on the current level: levels 1 to 3 = 0; levels 4 to 6 = 1; levels 7 to 9 = 2 and level 10 = 3.

4. Scrolls no longer go into the Graveyard when used, and they allow the player to re-roll themselves and any number of other dice of any colour that are not Dragons (including zero), as normal. This may be repeated until the player has no more Scrolls, or the player can keep Scrolls for future levels.

5. Potions no longer cost a white die to quaff. Their effect depends on how many Potions you have on the level. The first potion quaffed can only resurrect a die from the Graveyard as it is, the face may not be changed. The 2nd potion quaffed resurrects a 2nd white die, but it can be rerolled if desired. All further Potions resurrect and allow the player to choose a new face, including Scrolls. If there are less white dice in the Graveyard than Potions, the player can enhance the effect of a Potion with another Potion. Example: 2 Potions and only 1 white die in the graveyard means the player can resurrect the die and re-roll it. 3 Potions and 1 die means the player can resurrect and choose the face. Finally, 3 Potions and 2 dice allows the player to either resurrect a single die and choose its face OR resurrect both, re-rolling one of them.
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Ben Bailey

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All the variants can work but what this game really needs is a Dungeon Lord expansion with Dungeon Lord cards. These cards work just like the hero's in a lot of ways except they wouldn't just hinder the hero's they would also help them.

Example:

Dire Rat

Ability 1: Once per level you may reroll 1 chest rolled on the dungeon dice

Ability 2: (player reward) at the end of each delve a hero may draw an additional treasure.

This is just a rough idea, but this could add a lot more interaction throughout the game. I do realize this hampers a solo players experience, but this isn't for the solo experience anyway.

As far as the Dungeon Lord cards themselves, I imagine that either each player chooses 1 that they would control. Or one would be selected at random and passed around the table with the dice.

Likewise; the Dungeon Lords could also offer and exp bonus for completing all 10 levels per delve. Keeping the players pressing their luck further for the bonus at the end.

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