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Subject: The Begger rss

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Charlie Theel
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My idea for the Begger:

Starting at your left and going clockwise, each other player must pay a coin to the bank OR they must cover their eyes and reveal their role to the rest of the table.
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Peter Cooper
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To the bank?
 
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Charlie Theel
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The pool. Not to the courthouse or to another player.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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Taking money out of circulation may slow down the game quite a bit.
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Charlie Theel
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mfaulk80 wrote:
Taking money out of circulation may slow down the game quite a bit.


It may slow down the game, but I don't think it will make a substantial difference. It was a factor I thought about.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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It depends on the number of players and how often it gets played.

I'm also not sure if I'd personally ever choose to use the ability. Even if I knew that I had the beggar, I'd probably just choose to bluff or swap roles since the Beggar wouldn't directly help me.

Not trying to hate. Just giving feedback.
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Nushura
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I agree with mathue. How about the card is shown to the beggar? Or coins are paid to him?
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Charlie Theel
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Appreciate the feedback, an I see your point. Paying the Begger could fix it but I was worried the Begger would be too powerful in a game with a large number of players.
 
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Flex Dolphynn
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We need some good optional rules for the begger.

Maybe the begger can get money from the Bishop somehow, or from the Judge.

Anyone have any feasible ideas for the Begger?
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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Using charlest's idea, what if:

- You start the game with a similar area to the Bank, only it's called the Begging Plate (or something more creatively appropriate).
- Seed the Plate with 2 coins at setup.
- The Beggar can either take the action that charlest suggested (only the money would going to the Plate), OR they can take HALF of the coins on the Begging Plate (rounded down).

It's a little more complicated, and it would have to be playtested IMO. I'm just trying see if we can make the original idea work....
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Charlie Theel
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That's a pretty cool idea Mathue. I really like the show your card to everyone else but yourself effect I originally posted. It has interesting consequences yet it isn't too strong. If the pool idea is too complicated, the Begger could choose two or three people who must pay him or show their role.

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bruno faidutti
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charlest wrote:
That's a pretty cool idea Mathue. I really like the show your card to everyone else but yourself effect I originally posted. It has interesting consequences yet it isn't too strong. If the pool idea is too complicated, the Begger could choose two or three people who must pay him or show their role.



This was already the way I wanted to playtest it after reading this thread - eithet the three players on the left of the Beggar, or three people of his choice.
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Charlie Theel
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faidutti wrote:
charlest wrote:
That's a pretty cool idea Mathue. I really like the show your card to everyone else but yourself effect I originally posted. It has interesting consequences yet it isn't too strong. If the pool idea is too complicated, the Begger could choose two or three people who must pay him or show their role.



This was already the way I wanted to playtest it after reading this thread - eithet the three players on the left of the Beggar, or three people of his choice.


Both of those sound interesting. I will try to play test this if my group has the necessary players/time.
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Benedetto Loffredo
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charlest wrote:
My idea for the Begger:

Starting at your left and going clockwise, each other player must pay a coin to the bank OR they must cover their eyes and reveal their role to the rest of the table.


My idea (we're discussing Begger on an italian forum here http://www.goblins.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopi... ) is somehow similar to yours:

"Name a player. That player must give you 2 coins or show you his role"

I'll report the other ideas for Begger in this 3d as soon they will be posted and finalized.

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Daniele I.
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The figure of the "Beggar" tells us that it is a character that needs money and is willing to do anything to them, even to "steal", and when you steal someone sneaking, you're not sure that you can, and this action the propose that:

"All other players take 1 them coin and secretly they put it in the left hand or the right hand.
At this point, put his fists on the table and the Beggar will have to find out in which hand is hiding the coin of each player.
All the coins that will be found, will be the loot of the Beggar, while coins that has not found, remain to their owners."



To activate the power of beggar, must not be the richest player and if a player has a coin only, should not give it to the beggar.
You can use the beggar maximum 8 players.








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Charlie Theel
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diafis wrote:
The figure of the "Beggar" tells us that it is a character that needs money and is willing to do anything to them, even to "steal", and when you steal someone sneaking, you're not sure that you can, and this action the propose that:

"All other players take 1 them coin and secretly they put it in the left hand or the right hand.
At this point, put his fists on the table and the Beggar will have to find out in which hand is hiding the coin of each player.
All the coins that will be found, will be the loot of the Beggar, while coins that has not found, remain to their owners."



To activate the power of beggar, must not be the richest player and if a player has a coin only, should not give it to the beggar.
You can use the beggar maximum 8 players.










That's very interesting but also a bit too game changing. It's extremely useful early, but it's very risky if you have someone with 10+ coins, as you have a 50% chance of just giving them a coin.
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Kelly Bass
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I think it would be interesting to have The Beggar card only function if the player activating it is the poorest player.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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chockle wrote:
I think it would be interesting to have The Beggar card only function if the player activating it is the poorest player.

In that case, it would need to be VERY strong.

Having said that, I don't think it would add much to the game if such a restriction was made.
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Perhaps a simple rule. the Begger: Takes one gold from each player richer then themselves.

That way it doesn't detract from the game with a lot of extra actions. Nor does it remove money from (slowing down) the game. Also it plays into the theme of the card as it promotes poorer players using it.

Or

Simply have it that the beggar do nothing. Perhaps uneventful, but could be quite interesting in larger games.
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Charlie Theel
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The most exciting actions/parts of the game are not the roles which give you money. Roles like the Spy and Fool and Inquisitor are our favorites, that's why I personally would like to see something new and interesting. That's just my personal take.

We played a couple games last night using my modified idea of the Begger picking 3 people, one at a time, each either paying her a coin or closing their eyes and revealing their role to everyone else and it was a hit. 2 of the players weren't sure what they had but chose to not pay, which lead to interesting follow up swapping and some clever use of The Fool. Will have to play with this some more.
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Daniele I.
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Another idea, especially in a few good players to confuse and increase the laughter:

The Beggar choose 2 players.

The first player, in turn order, has 2 choices:
1) to give 3 coins to the beggar;
2) to give 1 coin to beggar and deliver their character card.
At that point, the Beggar, without looking at the card, can be exchanged or pretend to exchange it with his character card.

The second player will be forced to choose the action remained.


In combination with the characters "Jester" and "Spy", I can assure you that the laughter and chaos will be the highest level!
 
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Charlie Theel
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diafis wrote:
Another idea, especially in a few good players to confuse and increase the laughter:

The Beggar choose 2 players.

The first player, in turn order, has 2 choices:
1) to give 3 coins to the beggar;
2) to give 1 coin to beggar and deliver their character card.
At that point, the Beggar, without looking at the card, can be exchanged or pretend to exchange it with his character card.

The second player will be forced to choose the action remained.


In combination with the characters "Jester" and "Spy", I can assure you that the laughter and chaos will be the highest level!


That's prett brutal. Making someone pay and get screwed over or making them pay more than any other role makes you pay in the game.
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Jeremy Meyer
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I think the beggar is asking for pocket change, not even 1 coin worth in the game. Thematically this change is spent right away, no money is saved.

Instead I think the beggar power should be more about mind games:



Look at your card and swap-or-not with all other players claiming to be the beggar.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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jmmeye2 wrote:
I think the beggar is asking for pocket change, not even 1 coin worth in the game. Thematically this change is spent right away, no money is saved.

Instead I think the beggar power should be more about mind games:



Look at your card and swap-or-not with all other players claiming to be the beggar.

Why challenge the beggar in that case? I'd just let him switch with himself...
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Jeremy Meyer
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mfaulk80 wrote:
jmmeye2 wrote:
I think the beggar is asking for pocket change, not even 1 coin worth in the game. Thematically this change is spent right away, no money is saved.

Instead I think the beggar power should be more about mind games:



Look at your card and swap-or-not with all other players claiming to be the beggar.

Why challenge the beggar in that case? I'd just let him switch with himself...


If you know someone has a card, such as the King, and he announces it, why would you challenge him? This is the question you are asking. In Mascarade the players often are not sure which cards are where. Another question, if you know YOU have a card and someone else announces that character, why challenge?

I think what you are wondering is why even announce you are the beggar on your turn if you can look at your card without possibility of challenge.

As I said the card is about mind games. Let's say I use the beggar power on my turn and nobody challenges. Do I have the beggar, or do I have the King, know I have the King, and will win on my next turn since I have 10 coins. On the other hand, swap with me and you may get the Beggar and give me the King.
 
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