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StormKnight wrote:
[i] and we've only lost 1 out of around 30 plays.


Clearly, PACG is quite an incredible game since in less than 1 month of it being available, you have already played that game 30 times.

Basically, you have played the game everyday for the past month. I'd say that's pretty impressive replayability.

In all seriousness, how many other games do you own that you played 30 times in 30 days?

Sounds like PACG is a no-brainer then.

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Ben Hawks
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I agree completely with this review. The game has virtually no challenge and very repetitive gameplay, but it's so much fun! Leveling your characters and finding new cards is so satisfying it makes up for all the negative stuff about the game.
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StormKnight wrote:
toddbarker wrote:
First I totally agree that the rules are atrocious, that being said you overlooked something in your example with the spyglass, if you do not have 'perception' or any other secondary you can roll a d4 for the check

Check page 11 (I think). You can only use the d4 roll if you don't have any of the skills listed for the check. For example, the Perception check also always lists Wisdom, which every character has. But rolling Wisdom is NOT a perception check, so you couldn't use the Spyglass.
From discussion online, it sounds like they are going to errata that, but as of when we finished playing they hadn't actually done so. The discussions have been quite a mess as some things they have ruled then create chain reactions of other problems that they didn't anticipate. I have given up even trying to follow the mess. I'll check the updated rules when the next set comes out, if I still care by then.

Not to devolve into a rules thread, but Todd is correct here. Your interpretation (you have to roll the main skill if it's listed, so Spyglass et al. will almost always be near-useless cards) is not an unreasonable inference from the written rules. But it does unambiguously conflict with Paizo clarifications and responses to the same question both on their own forums and here on BGG. If you don't have X skill, you can always roll a d4 for a check on X. And that makes sense, as otherwise there are a bunch of surprisingly mediocre items and allies.

Admittedly, as someone who has at various times helped keep up with rules threads for Mage Knight and Super Dungeon Explore... I seem to have a rather high tolerance for games that spawn endless rules questions.
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David Debien
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A good friend came over with this in tow last Saturday night. I knew that this is not my kind of game, but I decided to humor him and we played a round, after which...

Jeff: "Go for another?"

Me: Frowns, scratches head, nods. "Let me fix another drink."

Another round of card flipping and very minor choices goes by.

Jeff: "Shall we keep going or you want to play something else?"

Me: Staring at empty glass, notices plenty of bourbon still in the bottle "You deal, I'll pour."

Later still...

Jeff: "Are you smiling becuase you are enjoying the game or because you are getting drunk?"

Me: Pouring another drink "Does it matter?"

Jeff: Starts setting up scenario 3.

Fast forward to 2 AM. Bourbon bottle lies empty and we have done every scenario in the box. My monk had levelled twice and has a pretty nicely built deck.

I enjoyed it, but I am not sure why. Clearly, adding alcohol to this one does a lot to make up for the lack of actual gameplay.
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casualgod wrote:
A good friend came over with this in tow last Saturday night. I knew that this is not my kind of game, but I decided to humor him and we played a round, after which...

Jeff: "Go for another?"

Me: Frowns, scratches head, nods. "Let me fix another drink."

Another round of card flipping and very minor choices goes by.

Jeff: "Shall we keep going or you want to play something else?"

Me: Staring at empty glass, notices plenty of bourbon still in the bottle "You deal, I'll pour."

Later still...

Jeff: "Are you smiling becuase you are enjoying the game or because you are getting drunk?"

Me: Pouring another drink "Does it matter?"

Jeff: Starts setting up scenario 3.

Fast forward to 2 AM. Bourbon bottle lies empty and we have done every scenario in the box. My monk had levelled twice and has a pretty nicely built deck.

I enjoyed it, but I am not sure why. Clearly, adding alcohol to this one does a lot to make up for the lack of actual gameplay.


But now you have played every scenario. What do you buy? More cards, or more bourbon?
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This review seems to mirror our groups feelings.

Only the level-up aspect of the game encourages us to play more. But I'm really doubting it's enough to spend $80-$100 on expansions; expansions they may be just as error filled or confusing as the core cards/rules. Or worse, monsters/villains have +3 combat check, and our players all have +3 better weapons/spells.

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David Debien
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
casualgod wrote:
A good friend came over with this in tow last Saturday night. I knew that this is not my kind of game, but I decided to humor him and we played a round, after which...

Jeff: "Go for another?"

Me: Frowns, scratches head, nods. "Let me fix another drink."

Another round of card flipping and very minor choices goes by.

Jeff: "Shall we keep going or you want to play something else?"

Me: Staring at empty glass, notices plenty of bourbon still in the bottle "You deal, I'll pour."

Later still...

Jeff: "Are you smiling becuase you are enjoying the game or because you are getting drunk?"

Me: Pouring another drink "Does it matter?"

Jeff: Starts setting up scenario 3.

Fast forward to 2 AM. Bourbon bottle lies empty and we have done every scenario in the box. My monk had levelled twice and has a pretty nicely built deck.

I enjoyed it, but I am not sure why. Clearly, adding alcohol to this one does a lot to make up for the lack of actual gameplay.


But now you have played every scenario. What do you buy? More cards, or more bourbon?


Pretty sure the Bourbon has a higher replay value.
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There's a little more strategy on cornering the villains in the later scenarios, where you have to be prepared to face 2-3 fights in a single turn to close down a location and/or beat a villain with multiple combat checks.

Also, the rulebook talks about scenarios with multiple villains, where you have to beat them all to win. There's already a fan scenario like that available on Paizo's site, written by a guy who has written professional adventures for the Pathfinder RPG, so he knows what he's doing.

So the grind does get a little tougher/more interesting. But I can see where everyone's coming from in thinking of it as mostly just a grind. I'm enjoying it so far.
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dvang wrote:
You also have a choice before, and after, a game in which cards you choose for your deck. It is, after all, partially a deck-building game.

By which you mean a build-your-deck-then-play game like Magic: The Gathering, not a build-your-deck-by-playing-it game like Dominion, right?
 
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rougenoir wrote:
MacMog wrote:
dvang wrote:
You also have a choice before, and after, a game in which cards you choose for your deck. It is, after all, partially a deck-building game.

By which you mean a build-your-deck-then-play game like Magic: The Gathering, not a build-your-deck-by-playing-it game like Dominion, right?


Is it not both, since items etc., acquired during a scenario, become available immediately, or in the next rebuild phase?

Agreed. It's definitely both.
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So, basically, this is the card-game version of Progress Quest?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_Quest
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LucasTrask wrote:
So, basically, this is the card-game version of Progress Quest?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_Quest


I think you nailed it!

...except here, it is you doin' the grinding.
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thesleeper7 wrote:
Really nice review.

Just one minor nitpick regarding replay value: The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game basically only had one playable scenario at launch, has the same simplistic choices, the game was 'designed' to have un-winnable scenarios without expansions, and look how high it ranked on BGGshake.

Compared to that piece of ____, PACG has great replay value. And there are no other games like that on the market(for the time being).




That's just flatly wrong in every way it could be. All three scenarios are totally playable and beatable with the core cards. You and your friend will be in for a tough time on the third quest but you can still do it with the right mind toward deck makeup.

LotR is not going to give you high win ratios unless you really work for it. I hardly think that makes it "un-winnable." It's a co-op, it is meant to be a challenge.
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casualgod wrote:


Pretty sure the Bourbon has a higher replay value.


Yeah, but only if you keep buying expansions.
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dvang wrote:
Look at the majority of gameplay videos here on BGG. The players often agonize on which cards to play.


That's pretty weak evidence for or against anything. I have never played a game where I didn't meet at least one player who agonized over the littlest things.
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davro33 wrote:
dvang wrote:
Look at the majority of gameplay videos here on BGG. The players often agonize on which cards to play.


That's pretty weak evidence for or against anything. I have never played a game where I didn't meet at least one player who agonized over the littlest things.


I've seen a player in a Magic: The Gathering game who had already used all his mana, had already put out a land, had already attacked, and who didn't have any 0 cost spells spend a long time agonizing over what else to do on their turn.

Nothing.
You can't do anything.
You CANNOT do anything!
End your damn turn already!

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StormKnight wrote:

I've seen a player in a Magic: The Gathering game who had already used all his mana, had already put out a land, had already attacked, and who didn't have any 0 cost spells spend a long time agonizing over what else to do on their turn.


Have we met?!

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Very interesting review (as often). I have read many reviews and session reports for PACG and could not manage to understand how a seamingly dull game could pull out such good ratings. Since I have money to burn (my banker strongly disagree) I pre-ordered the french edition (so that I can play with my 6 year old). Waiting for delivery, I kept on browsing through more intriguingly nice reviews, absolutely clueless until today when the StormKnight finally rises!
So, basically, it's Pathfinder: the f*cking Diablo cardgame?

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Bvggy wrote:
So, basically, it's Pathfinder: the f*cking Diablo cardgame?Buggy

Well, combat in Diablo is a bit more exciting.

It is kind of a hybrid of Talisman and Diablo.


mvettemagred wrote:
We're very good at calculating odds, but what odds are good enough? That depends on the check being attempted, the person attempting the check, the status of the character involved, and the overall state of the game. Sometimes, a 50% chance is fine. Sometimes, you want it higher. Sometimes you don't care if you gain a boon, so any chance of success, no matter how small, is good enough. There's no absolute right or wrong answer; therefore, it really comes down to, "Do you feel lucky, punk?"

I completely agree with you on this. Most of the card play, and most of the discuss, winds up being about how many cards to expend and dice to roll, and it's just too random to really matter what you decide. You should probably aim for a good chance of success if the card matters at all. But whether or not to chuck in another blessing once you've already got a likely success? Meh. All depends on how you are going to roll. Most of the gameplay doesn't really matter.

Quote:
And I don't agree with the strategy of having Valeros just chuck his Long Sword at his first opportunity, expecting there will be another weapon coming right along.

Um, I'd say that Valeros should, in fact, almost never chuck his Long Sword unless he really needs the bonus. But the example in question mentioned that he DID really need the bonus. As I pointed out, if you fail you'll probably just lose the sword anyway, and you've got plenty more, so if it's a nasty roll, you shouldn't have any stress about discarding it.

guigtexas wrote:
Basically, you have played the game everyday for the past month. I'd say that's pretty impressive replayability.

In all seriousness, how many other games do you own that you played 30 times in 30 days?

For the record, my "replayability" rating reflects long term replay value; how much we keep playing after the initial enthusiasm wears off. The "Addictive" rating describes that initial excitement period.

We played for about two weekends (nothing else going on + lousy weather for being outside). Now, normally I don't rate replayability until we've owned a game for a while, but in this case I already know; barring expansions, we are probably NEVER going to play this game again.
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StormKnight wrote:
It is kind of a hybrid of Talisman and Diablo.


Not intuitive, but a really good description.
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StormKnight wrote:
Is all this card flipping FUN?
Well, yes, if, and this can be a big "if", you can enjoy a game of just seeing what happens without a lot of strategy or choice. Pathfinder reminds me a lot of Talisman; just spend a while flipping cards and rolling dice and laughing about what happens.


This perfectly sums up while I'll never buy this game. I'll be happy to play someone else's version once or twice though.
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RollingSkull wrote:
thesleeper7 wrote:
Really nice review.

Just one minor nitpick regarding replay value: The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game basically only had one playable scenario at launch, has the same simplistic choices, the game was 'designed' to have un-winnable scenarios without expansions, and look how high it ranked on BGGshake.

Compared to that piece of ____, PACG has great replay value. And there are no other games like that on the market(for the time being).




That's just flatly wrong in every way it could be. All three scenarios are totally playable and beatable with the core cards. You and your friend will be in for a tough time on the third quest but you can still do it with the right mind toward deck makeup.

LotR is not going to give you high win ratios unless you really work for it. I hardly think that makes it "un-winnable." It's a co-op, it is meant to be a challenge.


I have to agree with Joe Skull. Every quest in the core LOTR game was beatable with the core cards. I got to the point where I rarely lost 'Journey Down the Anduin' and won half the time in 'Escape From Dol Guldur'. Either you're exaggerating the difficulty of the game or you didn't play it well. If you want something easy where you'll usually win, then sure don't play LOTR. If you want something very co-op and highly tactical, then it might be for you. Also there’s the new Easy Mode which is much more laid back.

With all that said. I like Pathfinder. It's a good game to play when I don't want to think too much and just level up. I hope someone merges the best of Pathfinder and LOTR LCG. That I'll buy real fast.
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From a difficulty perspective, this is one of the easiest co-ops I've played. In our first 30ish plays, we lost once."

I just can't trust that.
 
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DrWhoWho wrote:
"
From a difficulty perspective, this is one of the easiest co-ops I've played. In our first 30ish plays, we lost once."

I just can't trust that.


Um...why not and what don't you "trust" about it?
 
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DrWhoWho wrote:
"
From a difficulty perspective, this is one of the easiest co-ops I've played. In our first 30ish plays, we lost once."

I just can't trust that.


Yesterday I played my 15th game and I lost once. I didn't die. The timer just ran out so I kept all the gear and ran it again. But hey, I guess I could be lying about it.
 
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