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Subject: Discussion Thread for Combined Shipping U.S Math Trade rss

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Stoic Bird
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Welcome to the discussion thread!

If you're looking for the trade list, it's here.

If you're looking for the request list, it's here.

This is the place to let me know if you have any questions, concerns, gripes, or if you just want to discuss the trade.

This was originally listed as lowest shipping distance, but it turns out you can't really do that. See Jeff's post a little ways down for details about the change. Apologies if I got people's hopes up - I'm a little disappointed myself, but I find this metric intriguing too. I decided it would be better to leave the announcement thread wrong than to update it and notify however many hundreds of people are subscribed, so that's why that is still wrong, if you're just joining us from there.

After my last big trade, I learned that I don't have time to police them to the same level as I do my themed ones. That's a big reason the time frame is so short (to keep the number of items down), and I won't be reading through every single item asking for clarification about edition like I've done with trades I've run in the past. We shouldn't have too many shipping policy issues here, so I'll ask you all to be vigilant about items you're interested in (which is frankly a good idea anyway).

My one other request: if you have any hiccups with the trading process once the results are final, please try to work things out in private first before going to this thread. I've participated in dozens of math trades, and there have been very few actual issues that weren't caused by a simple mistake or miscommunication that was easily rectified via GeekMail.

Now that that's out of the way, have fun!
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Thomas
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
What are the rules regarding shipping distance and how is that supposed to work?
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Kevin B. Smith
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
Nice idea for an MT, and I enjoy some quick ones like this. This one doesn't fit my schedule, so I'll have to pass on it, but I will definitely take a look at how it turns out.
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
What are the rules regarding shipping distance and how is that supposed to work?
All the details are outlined along with the rules in the header of the main trade GeekList.
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'Bernard Wingrave'
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
I like the idea, just don't have time to get involved in this one. Look forward to seeing how it turns out.
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Joshua H
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
Specifically, it works like this:
TradeMax finds the greatest number of trades.

Then, it iterates with a new randomizer, and finds another set of trades,which will have the same total trades, but possibly different specific trades. When it's hit the total number of iterations, it picks the one with the shortest total shipping distance (iirc, this includes gc/gg trades, although they usually don't involve an actual shipment).

This is the only step that's different from most math trades; normally you pick the iteration with the most users with a trade, here you pick on distance. In either case, the total number of trades is the same. A user may lose out on a trade, but a trade itself is never sacrificed.
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Chris Gray
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
I normally add items through the OLWLG (which brings me back over to BGG). It doesn't appear the trade is showing up on the OLWLG yet, so I added them directly to the trade list using the "add item" feature. Just making sure this is correct/acceptable. Thanks.
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Anthony Viera
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
I want to participate but have never done a math trade before. I'm working on figuring out the olwlg but cannot find the correct math trade. Shouldn't it show up under "Other Active Shipping Math Trades?"
 
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Chris Gray
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
I think it [the OLWLG] just hasn't populated yet (see my post above yours).
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Anthony Viera
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
So if I add items manually through BGG it will eventually sync up with my OLWLG account?
 
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Adrian George
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
TerminallyChill wrote:
So if I add items manually through BGG it will eventually sync up with my OLWLG account?
Yes
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Justin Wertz
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
Why is this showing in the "Video Game" section and not the regular Board Game Trades Forum?
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Stoic Bird
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
Thanks to folks for fielding questions!

LunarSoundDesign wrote:
What are the rules regarding shipping distance and how is that supposed to work?
This has mostly been covered, but just to be totally clear, there's no change on your end at all. It's just how the computer calculates that's different.

TerminallyChill wrote:
Shouldn't it show up under "Other Active Shipping Math Trades?"
Again, mostly covered, but just to hit one other detail: JeffyJeff adds the GeekLists to the OLWLG manually (I assume as a spam control measure of some sort). Since this went up at 1 AM our time, I'm not terribly surprised it's not up yet I'd expect it later this morning. That's part of why I don't have items listed myself yet; I want to list the ones I've listed before through the OLWLG.

weezknight wrote:
Why is this showing in the "Video Game" section and not the regular Board Game Trades Forum?
Because I did this at 1 AM and didn't think about being on VGG at that point I'll talk to Octavian about moving it.
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Travis Dean
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
I like trying out the shortest shipping distance idea. Neat!
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Edward Uhler
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
Sounds I teresting. We are in.
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D. Thompson
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
Is it appropriate to add something like a $xx purchase on Steam (Not GC)?

Like any purchases totaling up to $xx sent via Steam gift or with the trade window?
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Stoic Bird
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
Outinthedark wrote:
Is it appropriate to add something like a $xx purchase on Steam (Not GC)?

Like any purchases totaling up to $xx sent via Steam gift or with the trade window?
That's fine - that's functionally equivalent to a GC. Thanks for asking!
 
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
Great idea, I'm in! I'll add my items tonight. Due to the short timeframe, I don't expect to score any trades this time, but it sure will be fun trying

Thanks for running the math trade, Bird!

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Sheng Lin
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
For some reason I can't find this math trade in OWLG. Is it just me?
 
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Matthew C
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
iruul wrote:
For some reason I can't find this math trade in OWLG. Is it just me?
No, it's not just you. I've held off on adding anything for now for the same reason.
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Stoic Bird
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
It's live in the OLWLG now! Thanks Jeff!
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Jeff Michaud
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
Quote:
First, A Note About The Metric:
Most math trades here use the USERS-TRADING metric, which means that, all other factors being equal, the software that creates the trade chains will favor an outcome that involves the highest number of users with at least one trade. This time, I'm using the Shipping Distance metric, which means that, all other factors being equal, the software will favor an outcome that involves the lowest total number of miles that the games travel. Please note that this is not a guarantee of low postage. I'm in New York, and if my shipping to California will enable a higher total number of trades, then I'm shipping to California. But, in general, it should help.
Ahhhh, "shipping distance" METRIC? The only shipping related METRIC I ever implemented was the COMBINE-SHIPPING METRIC (which has never been used I don't believe). As for Lowest Shipping Distance if you are trying to repeat my 2009 experiment...

Priority Shipping Distance - Experimental Continental USA Math Trade Discussion

That doesn't use a METRIC but uses PRIORITIES (explicit ones) with front end support from the OLWLG to assign those priorities (equal to the shipping distance for each edge/want) which depends on the math trade participants to have given the OLWLG their zipcode(s).

I considered the experiment a failure in that it was such a small reduction in the average shipping distance to be worth while... look a few replies down on that thread for the results when I back tested playing with various NONTRADE-COST's which does indeed reduce the average shipping distance... but at a cost in my humble opinion too large a reduction in the number of trades.

In any case if you are using a METRIC you should also be listing both the ITERATIONS and SEED you are going to be using in the name of transparency, as well as probably be listing explicitly the METRIC you are using such as:

METRIC=COMBINE-SHIPPING
ITERATIONS=200
SEED=1234567
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Stoic Bird
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
JeffyJeff wrote:

Ahhhh, "shipping distance" METRIC? The only shipping related METRIC I ever implemented was the COMBINE-SHIPPING METRIC (which has never been used I don't believe). As for Lowest Shipping Distance if you are trying to repeat my 2009 experiment...

Priority Shipping Distance - Experimental Continental USA Math Trade Discussion

That doesn't use a METRIC...
blush

That's exactly the trade from the past I saw, and made an incorrect assumption that it used a metric.

Combine-shipping seems like it'll achieve a similar goal, so I'll shift to that.

JeffyJeff wrote:
In any case if you are using a METRIC you should also be listing both the ITERATIONS and SEED you are going to be using in the name of transparency, as well as probably be listing explicitly the METRIC you are using such as:

METRIC=COMBINE-SHIPPING
ITERATIONS=200
SEED=1234567
Does that go in %Options% in the header? I know that's documented somewhere (I've seen it before), but I didn't see it in the organizers wiki.
 
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Chris Gray
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
Just to be clear: items added through the "add item" button in the trade geeklist itself are fine, and do not need to be modified or re-added through the OLWLG, correct?
 
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Re: Discussion Thread for Lowest Shipping Distance U.S Math Trade
furtherbum wrote:
Just to be clear: items added through the "add item" button in the trade geeklist itself are fine, and do not need to be modified or re-added through the OLWLG, correct?
Correct. Your item(s) will automatically appear in the OLWLG next time it's sync'd.

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