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Subject: List of rules changes in 6th Edition? rss

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Rusty McFisticuffs
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I was surprised to see that GEVs now treat the boundary between land & water like streams (they can't cross it unless they begin the movement phase adjacent to the boundary). That seems like a significant change, especially for scenarios like Breakthrough or The Train, but those scenarios don't appear to have been updated to reflect this. Is there a list somewhere of the other rules changes in this edition?

(Regarding that specific change, did that exist before this edition? Does it have any purpose other than to give beach hexside terrain overlays a reason to exist? Because the scenarios haven't changed, and none of the scenarios in the box actually use beach hexsides, is there a reason the change shouldn't just be ignored, other than having to confuse new players with house rules?)
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Scott Ellis
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http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/errata/gev.html lists the same rule. (edited: this is apparently listed as errata for every previous printing of GEV, although I can't speak to what portion of the rule is updated by the errata)

Quote:
5.083 Effects on GEVs: A GEV approaching the edge of a body of water must end its movement phase at the edge of the water, and may neither move onto nor leave the water until its next movement phase. A road which slopes directly into water is considered to be a ramp, and any land that slopes directly into the water is considered a beach. A GEV which enters or leaves water via a ramp or beach may do so without stopping or incurring other penalties. GEVs using a ramp may still get the road bonus.


(double edit: the rule was added to the errata page in November 2002)
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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StormCrow42 wrote:
(double edit: the rule was added to the errata page in November 2002)

What!! They can't call it "errata" if they changed it after 20+ years and half a dozen printings!
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Scott Ellis
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It appears that the errata was possibly added to be consistent with page 42 of the Ogre Miniatures rulebook (from 1992).
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David Rock

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StormCrow42 wrote:
http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/errata/gev.html lists the same rule. (edited: this is apparently listed as errata for every previous printing of GEV, although I can't speak to what portion of the rule is updated by the errata)


Looking at the 2000 (G.E.V. Edition not stated) rules, that errata still wasn't applied. I believe ODE is the first boardgame edition containing GEV rules that includes it.
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John Holder
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kuhrusty wrote:
StormCrow42 wrote:
(double edit: the rule was added to the errata page in November 2002)

What!! They can't call it "errata" if they changed it after 20+ years and half a dozen printings!


I'm with you, kuhrusty.
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Richard Smith
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The metagaming version of GEV said that the rubble from the river bridge destruction blocked the river to GEV's. (I think.) I noticed in the new version, that this rule is missing.
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Jeff Johnson
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kuhrusty wrote:
StormCrow42 wrote:
(double edit: the rule was added to the errata page in November 2002)

What!! They can't call it "errata" if they changed it after 20+ years and half a dozen printings!


You are almost as bad as Traveller fandom.
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Ken Coble
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Rick Smith wrote:
The metagaming version of GEV said that the rubble from the river bridge destruction blocked the river to GEV's. (I think.) I noticed in the new version, that this rule is missing.


Rule 13.02.2 Results of river bridge destruction - doesnt this cover the above situation? I can't copy/paste as I'm posting from my phone but it seems to address this, GEVs can't cross the river surface in the hex of a downed river bridge, etc.
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Richard Smith
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My mistake then. I was trying to find the rule quickly, and didn't see it.

Thanks! Rick
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Ken Coble
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Rick Smith wrote:
My mistake then. I was trying to find the rule quickly, and didn't see it.

Thanks! Rick


No worries. I only knew where it is because
Keith Carter
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realized we hadn't done it correctly in our first game using the Raid scenario. And it makes a difference!
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David Rock

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flintlocklaser wrote:
Rick Smith wrote:
The metagaming version of GEV said that the rubble from the river bridge destruction blocked the river to GEV's. (I think.) I noticed in the new version, that this rule is missing.


Rule 13.02.2 Results of river bridge destruction - doesnt this cover the above situation? I can't copy/paste as I'm posting from my phone but it seems to address this, GEVs can't cross the river surface in the hex of a downed river bridge, etc.


There's also a clarification that needs to be addressed, too. Not only does 13.02.2 contain "GEVs can no longer cross the river surface in that hex" but it also says "For movement purposes, all units treat that hex as the worse of swamp or rubble."

What this is actually saying is that GEVs no longer get a road bonus (it isn't water anymore), not that they can't enter the hex at all, which is slightly different than the original rule. Granted, a GEV is unlikely to want to enter the hex, since it might get disabled in the process. It's generally safer to go around anyway.
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Ken Coble
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Good point David. I don't have my old copy of GEV handy, and I didn't realize that the old rule completely blocked GEV travel on such hexes.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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flintlocklaser wrote:
Good point David. I don't have my old copy of GEV handy, and I didn't realize that the old rule completely blocked GEV travel on such hexes.

The old rule (8.041 in the versions I have) is "No units may enter that hex at all except Ogres and infantry (which treat the hex as swamp)," so yeah, 13.02.02 is a change.

One clarification in the new 13.02.01 (which I've been playing wrong for 30 years--"oops") is that the river bridge occupies three hexes, not one (and attacks into any of the three hexes can be combined--and, you can automatically destroy the bridge without falling into the river, by parking in one of the adjacent hexes and nuking it there).

An actual change in 13.02.01 is that an attack on a unit in the center hex of the bridge also gives you a full-strength attack on the bridge.
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David Rock

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kuhrusty wrote:

The old rule (8.041 in the versions I have) is "No units may enter that hex at all except Ogres and infantry (which treat the hex as swamp)," so yeah, 13.02.02 is a change.

One clarification in the new 13.02.01 (which I've been playing wrong for 30 years--"oops") is that the river bridge occupies three hexes, not one (and attacks into any of the three hexes can be combined--and, you can automatically destroy the bridge without falling into the river, by parking in one of the adjacent hexes and nuking it there).

An actual change in 13.02.01 is that an attack on a unit in the center hex of the bridge also gives you a full-strength attack on the bridge.


Yup. that's what 2nd Ed (black pocket box) and later have. My 8.041 quoted initially is from 1st Ed, which does not explicitly state "no units at all". Personally, I think that wording is more precise than the ODE rules.

As you can see, it's floated back and forth a bit over the decades :-)
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Russ Williams
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This confusing changing rule stuff was one reason I preferred just plain classic Ogre instead of GEV+Ogre.
 
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David Rock

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russ wrote:
This confusing changing rule stuff was one reason I preferred just plain classic Ogre instead of GEV+Ogre.


Then you, sir, want the quick start rules :-)
http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-5003
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