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HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Edition» Forums » General

Subject: GZ latest message to Kickstarter backers rss

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Waspinator
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If the guy or running the Kickstarter goes bankrupt, you're not getting your money back. There is NO guarantee of refunds in worst-case scenarios.
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Un Notas
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TheWaspinator wrote:
If the guy or running the Kickstarter goes bankrupt, you're not getting your money back. There is NO guarantee of refunds in worst-case scenarios.
True fact. But not only here.
If your company goes bankrupt, maybe they cannot afford the payroll.
If you want to withdraw money of your bank account and the bank goes bankrupt, you are not going to be able. OK, the bank will probably be bailed out, this is the main reason we trust in the financial system. However, if your government goes bankrupt or there is a cap from the government to pay funds you will not receive all your funds either.

So, yes... you are right, but I consider it a little bit paranoid. GZ does the project to earn money, not to goes bankrupt. If you cannot take this amount of risk, crowdfunding is obviously not your platform. I remind you all that this is a crowdfunding.
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Yago González Rozas
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un_notas wrote:
TheWaspinator wrote:
If the guy or running the Kickstarter goes bankrupt, you're not getting your money back. There is NO guarantee of refunds in worst-case scenarios.
True fact. But not only here.
If your company goes bankrupt, maybe they cannot afford the payroll.
If you want to withdraw money of your bank account and the bank goes bankrupt, you are not going to be able. OK, the bank will probably be bailed out, this is the main reason we trust in the financial system. However, if your government goes bankrupt or there is a cap from the government to pay funds you will not receive all your funds either.

So, yes... you are right, but I consider it a little bit paranoid. GZ does the project to earn money, not to goes bankrupt. If you cannot take this amount of risk, crowdfunding is obviously not your platform. I remind you all that this is a crowdfunding.

The problem is GZ might go bankrupt under court cases if they do not have the license, and then, only then, you have crowfunded them to go to court, not to get a game.
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Sylvain Charpentier
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un_notas wrote:
So, yes... you are right, but I consider it a little bit paranoid. GZ does the project to earn money, not to goes bankrupt. If you cannot take this amount of risk, crowdfunding is obviously not your platform. I remind you all that this is a crowdfunding.
You're right for any other project. But this one, even before it begins, is the subject of an intellectual property dispute.

I backed 10 projects, 6 of them were from small companies (i.e. 1 or 2 persons), I accept this kind of risk.
Here, we have a company whose first crowdfunding campaign was stopped after a few days for IP infringment because they can't (or refuse to ?) produce the evidence claimed. That kind of risk is not for me.

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Mathue Faulkner
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un_notas wrote:
TheWaspinator wrote:
If the guy or running the Kickstarter goes bankrupt, you're not getting your money back. There is NO guarantee of refunds in worst-case scenarios.
True fact. But not only here.
If your company goes bankrupt, maybe they cannot afford the payroll.
If you want to withdraw money of your bank account and the bank goes bankrupt, you are not going to be able. OK, the bank will probably be bailed out, this is the main reason we trust in the financial system. However, if your government goes bankrupt or there is a cap from the government to pay funds you will not receive all your funds either.

So, yes... you are right, but I consider it a little bit paranoid. GZ does the project to earn money, not to goes bankrupt. If you cannot take this amount of risk, crowdfunding is obviously not your platform. I remind you all that this is a crowdfunding.
Not every crowd funding project is created equally...
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Donny Behne
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un_notas wrote:
TheWaspinator wrote:
If the guy or running the Kickstarter goes bankrupt, you're not getting your money back. There is NO guarantee of refunds in worst-case scenarios.
True fact. But not only here.
If your company goes bankrupt, maybe they cannot afford the payroll.
If you want to withdraw money of your bank account and the bank goes bankrupt, you are not going to be able. OK, the bank will probably be bailed out, this is the main reason we trust in the financial system. However, if your government goes bankrupt or there is a cap from the government to pay funds you will not receive all your funds either.

So, yes... you are right, but I consider it a little bit paranoid. GZ does the project to earn money, not to goes bankrupt. If you cannot take this amount of risk, crowdfunding is obviously not your platform. I remind you all that this is a crowdfunding.

In your examples, there's a reasonable assumption of safety with your bank and your business and your government. There's no reasonable assumption of any security with GameZone. There's a very good chance you'll never see HeroQuest and you'll never get your money back. You're throwing it into a pit and hoping someone will throw back a board game. You're going to be waiting a very long time.
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Waspinator
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If right after I opened a bank account, the bank was involved in a legal dispute that shut down the ATMs, I wouldn't trust them much either. The legal threat looming over this project makes it unusually likely that we would be crowdfunding a legal defense.
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un_notas wrote:
If you cannot take this amount of risk, crowdfunding is obviously not your platform.

Uh... no. Crowdfunding one-man companies with no track record of managing international projects with contested IP is more like it.

I mean, seriously, Reaper, Flying Frog Productions, CMON, Mantic, Mayfair Games, Japanime Games, Steve Jackson Games, are all retail-name companies who have run crowdfunding projects (some more delayed than others!). Don't tell me they're (just as) likely to go bankrupt as one-man shops like GameZone. Likewise, while it's not impossible to find a KS project that's under litigation (Up Front and AIYP), I don't know of any crowdfunded project that was under the shadow of IP BEFORE the crowdfunding campaign ended (or even begun, or both, in the case of HQ25!).

If anyone can't tell the difference between GameZone's HQ25 project and Steve Jackson Game's Ogre projects, well, remember what Canada Bill Jones said about morality.
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Andrea Angiolino
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Sam and Max wrote:
If anyone can't tell the difference between GameZone's HQ25 project and Steve Jackson Game's Ogre projects, well, remember what Canada Bill Jones said about morality.

"I know it's crooked, but it's the only game in town."

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Bill_Jones#Quotations

...was not this one???
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angiolillo wrote:
...was not this one???

(: "It's immoral to let a sucker keep his money" (:

No points if you know what SJG card it comes from!


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Sylvain Charpentier
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OK, latest joke from GZ : it seems they will try a 3rd crowdfunding platform...
It should be announced today (tonight in Europe).
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Vaughan Cockell
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Ooook wrote:
OK, latest joke from GZ : it seems they will try a 3rd crowdfunding platform...
It should be announced today (tonight in Europe).

They're kidding, surely?!

Link please, this I HAVE to see!
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Mike Miller

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Ooook wrote:
OK, latest joke from GZ : it seems they will try a 3rd crowdfunding platform...
It should be announced today (tonight in Europe).

Source?
 
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Joe Simpson
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Ooook wrote:
OK, latest joke from GZ : it seems they will try a 3rd crowdfunding platform...
It should be announced today (tonight in Europe).
If at first you don't succeed...
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that Matt
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JoeRockEHF wrote:
Ooook wrote:
OK, latest joke from GZ : it seems they will try a 3rd crowdfunding platform...
It should be announced today (tonight in Europe).
If at first you don't succeed...
And then, if at second you don't succeed...
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Sylvain Charpentier
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pinkymadigan wrote:
Ooook wrote:
OK, latest joke from GZ : it seems they will try a 3rd crowdfunding platform...
It should be announced today (tonight in Europe).

Source?
The french translator has daily contact with GZ and told us on TricTrac french forum.
http://www.trictrac.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=129329&p=...

(and a new video from GZ, if someone who speaks spanish could translate, please ?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RQkJpla3PU
 
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Sylvain Charpentier
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OK, my bad. I'm the one who didn't understand ! zombie
The french translator linked this video to proove that GZ has all the authorizations from Hasbro to release this 25th anniversary edition (approx at 34-36 minutes).
 
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Sylvain Charpentier
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At 35 min and 40 seconds, Dioniso talks about "licensia con Hasbro".

But hey, who cares, it's 10 days old and since then nobody at GZ shows the evidence of this agreement. The same Dioniso said in a recent interview (3-4 days ago) that he never asked Habro and doesn't need to !


Regarding tonight's show, here is the mail from GZ :
Quote:
This early morning Verkami has reached us to inform us that they were cancelling our project. We had been in touch with Verkami since last weekend, after voluntarily asking Kickstarter to cancel the previous project, to be able to launch this new campaign on their website. We had really positive conversations with them, so we expected a nice and sweet crowdfunding campaign.

During the previous days to the crowdfunding launching they were informed about the controversy raised all across the internet about the project, which didn't seem to affect them... until yesterday. Two hours after they gave us green light to open the fund raising and they released it on their site, they phoned us to say that they would rather close it. They have done this out of fear that the polemic surrounding this project could negatively affect Verkami's public image, very oriented to the cultural world.

Our disappointment should be evident. It would have been much better that they just said they wouldn't accept our project from the beginning, before making it public.

And obviously this harms us. But the project goes on. We are already working today to host it in another platform with enough guarantees to see it done.

We will soon inform you where exactly.

A sincere thank you to all of you who keep supporting us.
The griefing Gamezone team

A last video to illustrate :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0ow4X8tiMI

edit : mail added in place of my lousy translation
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Brian Casey
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Wait a minute.

So, according to the GZ guys, THEY (not Moon) asked Kickstarter to cancel the Kickstarter Campaign?

Also, didn't the other letter, from Verkami to the backers, state that GZ jumped the gun on starting the project (although I am unclear on how that might be possible)?

I mean, granted, we could be having some translation problems here, but I don't think it would extend so far as completely losing track of who did what to whom and for how many cookies.

 
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Mr_Six wrote:
Wait a minute.

So, according to the GZ guys, THEY (not Moon) asked Kickstarter to cancel the Kickstarter Campaign?

They did, actually. MD filed a dispute with KS. At that point, KS didn't cancel the project - they put up the "IP Dispute" page. The project wasn't cancelled at this point, it was just put in limbo.

After it became clear that GZ would have to actually spend money on lawyers to get it unlocked, GZ cancelled the project.

Eric
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Moray Johnson
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Mr_Six wrote:

So, according to the GZ guys, THEY (not Moon) asked Kickstarter to cancel the Kickstarter Campaign?

To be fair, this is somewhat true. Moon only _suspended_ the campaign to sort out the legalities and GZ refused to do so. Seeing as the campaign wouldn't get un-suspended any time soon, GZ decided to cancel the campaign.
So, their statement is still technically correct. Did they spin the words in order to make it look more favorably to them ("Oh, WE totally cancelled the campaign, because WE WANTED TO!") ? You decide whistle
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Alfred van Zant
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Mr_Six wrote:
Wait a minute.

So, according to the GZ guys, THEY (not Moon) asked Kickstarter to cancel the Kickstarter Campaign?

Also, didn't the other letter, from Verkami to the backers, state that GZ jumped the gun on starting the project (although I am unclear on how that might be possible)?

I mean, granted, we could be having some translation problems here, but I don't think it would extend so far as completely losing track of who did what to whom and for how many cookies.

Moon Design filed the IP dispute that made Kickstarter suspend the campaign. Then when that wasn't going anywhere Gamezone decided to cancel it altogether.

Calling that a "voluntary" decision on their part is dubious, in the fashion we've come to associate with Gamezone. They conceded defeat when they saw no way out.

It seems that Gamezone urged Verkami to launch the project before they'd finished checking up on it. So they did, finished checking, and decided to cancel it.

So Gamezone's whining about Verkami letting the project go up and then pulling it down again is their own fault. Had they shown a little patience it wouldn't have happened.

They're also ignoring that Verkami said they felt Gamezone's project could be misleading. Instead they imply it's all the fault of the haters, and they're just poor, well-meaning victims in all this.
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Justin Colm
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[q="Mr_Six"]
They're also ignoring that Verkami said they felt Gamezone's project could be misleading. Instead they imply it's all the fault of the haters, and they're just poor, well-meaning victims in all this.

I keep getting tempted to believe they really think that and then I remember that the typical defence of the con-man is always credulity. Appear credulous yourself and trust in the credulity of others.

"But I had no idea what I was doing was wrong. I acted in good faith. I was just naive" The minute you say otherwise you've hung yourself.
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Justus
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This is pretty awesome.....

The only thing I wish was that all this HQ awesomeness was contained in one thread. As much as I hated it when the mods first dropped the hammer in the UF forums, having everything in one thread does make life a lot easier to follow....
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Andrea Angiolino
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Ooook wrote:
Regarding tonight's show, here is the mail from GZ :
Quote:
This early morning Verkami has reached us to inform us that they were cancelling our project.
...
A sincere thank you to all of you who keep supporting us.
The griefing Gamezone team

It's now on their site:
http://www.heroquestclassic.com/last-hour-project-update/
 
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