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HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Edition» Forums » General

Subject: GZ latest message to Kickstarter backers rss

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Mike Miller

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If I see it on a store shelf somewhere, I'll probably still pick it up (assuming some reasonably normal mix of good and bad reviews).

No way ever will I pre-pay, kickstart, crowdfund, etc. any project by GZ at this point, though.
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Frank Franco
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kelann08 wrote:
Here's a question for the masses:

Is there anything that GameZone could do or say at this point that would immediately win your trust 110%? Anything that would turn them from zero to hero in no time flat (please don't sue me, Disney)? If yes, what would it take?

For me, its no. I can't really fathom anything right now to justify the lies they've told. I suppose if you take some of this as lies and some of it as pure ignorance, then that convenient mixture might lead to a path of redemption. Perhaps they lied because they didn't know it would be wise to broadcast the Hasbro rights early on? That's lying + ignorance. And if it turns out they do have it I could see myself defrosting a bit but certainly not restore trust to 100%.


No.
Even if this thing did end up getting made, it wouldn't be heroquest.
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Christian Sperling
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Friman wrote:

After seeing what I've seen, I'd consider purchasing a finished product with a Stephen Baker credited in the box and Hasbro's oficial seal, only after having tried it before and having fun with it.

Blindly giving money to those guys for a KS is suicide in my opinion.


Personally, I don't give a f.....I don't care about Hasbro's official seal. Just because they've acquired some rights long ago doesn't mean anything to me.

Instead, I want Stephen Baker's official blessing.
Maybe in form of a preface in the rulebook.
The mentioning of Stephen Baker alone should be quite natural.

In addition, It would be good if the fluff or background story would come from GW, Warhammers Old World.
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Simon Lundström
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kelann08 wrote:
Is there anything that GameZone could do or say at this point that would immediately win your trust 110%?


Nothing on a crowdfunded thing gets my full trust.

My trust in them being able to create a cool board game has gone from X% to X% (I don't know what X is, but it might be enough to back them).

My trust in that the rest of the world will try to jump up, drag them down and punch them in the face, whatever they do, has risen from 0% to 100%.
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Simon Lundström
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
Even if this thing did end up getting made, it wouldn't be heroquest.


I don't think ANYthing Heroquest would be "Heroquest", regardless of who made it. Even if Hasbro makes a HQ board game, it most probably won't be HeroQuest. It will be adapted and modernized and changed. I have no real reason to think that whatever Hasbro would do out of a HW board game would be closer to the original than whatever GZ would do.
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Simon Lundström
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Friman wrote:
Stephen Baker credited in the box and Hasbro's oficial seal


Stephen Baker credited would be nice.

Hasbro's official seal, I don't give a shit about.
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John "Omega" Williams
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RedShark92 wrote:
Well, it sounds as though he had previous contact with Hasbro so that actually makes some amount of sense.


I have had contact with Hasbro (last year). That does not make me an authority or viable liaison for cutting deals. It just means I worked out my IP issues with them.

Take note that HSFrance was stating he was working on the rules translation before the Kickstarter was announced. Rules we havent seen one word of yet in any format.
 
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Zimeon wrote:
Mr Skeletor wrote:
Even if this thing did end up getting made, it wouldn't be heroquest.


I don't think ANYthing Heroquest would be "Heroquest", regardless of who made it. Even if Hasbro makes a HQ board game, it most probably won't be HeroQuest. It will be adapted and modernized and changed. I have no real reason to think that whatever Hasbro would do out of a HW board game would be closer to the original than whatever GZ would do.


Hasbro have a long history of reprinting old games with no real changes.
Just look at the shelves of Target.

Regardless, it could do with an update. But you can update something and still make it feel like the original. It was quickly obvious to me Gamezone don't have that skill and instead were simply making something entirely different.
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Simon Lundström
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
Hasbro have a long history of reprinting old games with no real changes.
Just look at the shelves of Target.

Sure, it's possible. After all this time, though, it'll probably be the subject for some update.

About GameZones board-making skill, I still know nothing. They suck at knowing their legal stuff, but for all I know, their rule-inventing skill might be good. Or bad. They did seem to like HQ, and depending on their way of playing it, it might be something similar to the way I imagined it; you never know. I sure know that the Descent-way to go wasn't my direction, even if it's an awesome game.
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Zimeon wrote:
My trust in that the rest of the world will try to jump up, drag them down and punch them in the face, whatever they do, has risen from 0% to 100%.


Yeah, because they haven't given any reason for anybody to want to rag on them. shake

I was happy to support this project at the beginning (even though I wasn't personally planning on pledging for it) - I'm on their case now because of the piss poor way they've been handling it.
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I wanted to write a bit about basic concepts of business economics. Especially about legal capacities, forms etc. Difference between privat and business persons and all that boring stuff, but I'll make it short...

Friman wrote:
konsum24 wrote:

Personally, I don't give a f.....I don't care about Hasbro's official seal. (...)
Instead, I want Stephen Baker's official blessing.


Zimeon wrote:
Friman wrote:
Stephen Baker credited in the box and Hasbro's oficial seal


Stephen Baker credited would be nice.

Hasbro's official seal, I don't give a shit about.


Flash news: Stephen Baker's blessing means Hasbro's blessing, as previously stated several times all along this last week, Stephen Baker is currently one of Hasbro's executives.

There's no Baker's blessing without Habro's and viceversa.

shake

[edit]
PS: I declare officially that you are wrong! And you have my blessing to realize it!
 
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John "Omega" Williams
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Friman wrote:
To my knowledge, the only French translation in their page are these ones: http://www.heroquestclassic.com/matriaux-de-la-boite/ , http://www.heroquestclassic.com/lintrieur-de-la-boite/
, which are, by the way, very well translated, IMO. (Just listing contents for the new box)


Yes. Good translation work. But where are all these amazing rules he talks about translating? This is the odd part.
 
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konsum24 wrote:
I wanted to write a bit about basic concepts of business economics. Especially about legal capacities, forms etc. Difference between privat and business persons and all that boring stuff, but I'll make it short...

Friman wrote:
konsum24 wrote:

Personally, I don't give a f.....I don't care about Hasbro's official seal. (...)
Instead, I want Stephen Baker's official blessing.


Zimeon wrote:
Friman wrote:
Stephen Baker credited in the box and Hasbro's oficial seal


Stephen Baker credited would be nice.

Hasbro's official seal, I don't give a shit about.


Flash news: Stephen Baker's blessing means Hasbro's blessing, as previously stated several times all along this last week, Stephen Baker is currently one of Hasbro's executives.

There's no Baker's blessing without Habro's and viceversa.

shake

[edit]
PS: I declare officially that you are wrong! And you have my blessing to realize it!


Semantically maybe, but if a Hasbro Exec blesses something that's slightly controversial, he's either a dunce or he's cleared it with his other execs (and given his status as an exec, I think option 1 is unlikely).
 
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Donny Behne
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konsum24 wrote:
I wanted to write a bit about basic concepts of business economics. Especially about legal capacities, forms etc. Difference between privat and business persons and all that boring stuff, but I'll make it short...

Friman wrote:
konsum24 wrote:

Personally, I don't give a f.....I don't care about Hasbro's official seal. (...)
Instead, I want Stephen Baker's official blessing.


Zimeon wrote:
Friman wrote:
Stephen Baker credited in the box and Hasbro's oficial seal


Stephen Baker credited would be nice.

Hasbro's official seal, I don't give a shit about.


Flash news: Stephen Baker's blessing means Hasbro's blessing, as previously stated several times all along this last week, Stephen Baker is currently one of Hasbro's executives.

There's no Baker's blessing without Habro's and viceversa.

shake

[edit]
PS: I declare officially that you are wrong! And you have my blessing to realize it!


I find your lack of reasoning disturbing.
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Andrea Angiolino
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Zimeon wrote:
I don't think ANYthing Heroquest would be "Heroquest", regardless of who made it. Even if Hasbro makes a HQ board game, it most probably won't be HeroQuest. It will be adapted and modernized and changed. I have no real reason to think that whatever Hasbro would do out of a HW board game would be closer to the original than whatever GZ would do.


Anyway, it would be nicer to have changes whose main aim is to modernize the game. Less nice, probably, to have changes whose main aim is trying to avoid legal troubles with several companies and people. Probably the first kind of changes would make a better game from a player's point of view, since that's their goal. The second kind, less so.
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Friman wrote:
There's no Baker's blessing without Habro's and viceversa.


You missed the point.
 
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angiolillo wrote:
Anyway, it would be nicer to have changes whose main aim is to modernize the game. Less nice, probably, to have changes whose main aim is trying to avoid legal troubles with several companies and people. Probably the first kind of changes would make a better game from a player's point of view, since that's their goal. The second kind, less so.


Quite so. However, I don't think that, if making a HQ style game whatever it may be, there is a real need to worry about that the mechanisms are similar or not. After all, HQ is such a basic concept and has been copied and used for decades that it's a bit of a non-issue with the "move and attack or attack and move".

At any rate, there is no HQ coming from anywhere, so this is just specilation. I'm just saying I'm not exactly trusting person X in doing a HQ style game of my liking than I am person Y.
 
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Simon Lundström
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Friman wrote:
Zimeon wrote:
Friman wrote:
There's no Baker's blessing without Habro's and viceversa.


You missed the point.


Or maybe did you?


No, I didn't. You assumed that because the two stick together, I care about both. I don't. I'd like Baker (the individual) to be credited due, but I don't care about Hasbro's (the company's) official seal of approval.

That Hasbro's seal will sort of automatically follow if Baker is involved doesn't make me care about it more.
 
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Christian Sperling
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Friman wrote:

You're telling me that you're asking for water, and you don't care about whether it's wet or not.


kelann08 wrote:
I find your lack of reasoning disturbing.

I want dry ice!
 
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Simon Lundström
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Friman wrote:
So, again, you don't care about the water being wet, as long as you get water.


You are being a bit ridiculous now, but if you want a written explanation:

"Being wet" is an inseparable aspect of "water". "Being Hasbro's executive" is not an inseparable aspect of "Baker". It just happens to be that way, but it could end being that way at any instant.

Assume Baker would be fired from Hasbro or that he would pass away, and rights would remain at Hasbro. I still would only care about Baker's name being credited (and hopefully paid, if still alive) and not the least about Hasbro's seal.

It doesn't matter that Baker probably won't be fired from Hasbro or that he's not dying, as my point was the principle: I care about the author, not a shit about the company owning the "rights".
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Sylvain Charpentier
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Hey, 2 twits from GZ in the same day, amazing !
a fan wrote:
alguna novedad respecto a otras plataformas?
GZ wrote:
de momento no podemos contaros nada. :-/ Pero todo llegará :-)


I'm not sure about the meaning..? Friman ?
Something like :
- any news from the other (crowdfunding) platforms ?
- it's out of our control right now. :-/ But everything is ... (legal ?) :-)

 
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Christian Sperling
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Friman wrote:
Maybe you want to take a look this time at the threads before posting, specially the one featuring the GZ interview with Dionisio, in which he states the reason why he can't credit Stephen Baker...

I highly doubt Dionisio's (GZ) competence to evaluate things like that.


kelann08 wrote:
I find your lack of reasoning disturbing.

I still want my dry ice!
 
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Friman wrote:
Ooook wrote:
Hey, 2 twits from GZ in the same day, amazing !
a fan wrote:
alguna novedad respecto a otras plataformas?
GZ wrote:
de momento no podemos contaros nada. :-/ Pero todo llegará :-)


I'm not sure about the meaning..? Friman ?
Something like :
- any news from the other (crowdfunding) platforms ?
- it's out of our control right now. :-/ But everything is ... (legal ?) :-)



The first sentence, you got it right. The meaning of the second one is: right now, we can't tell anything. But (keep calm), everything will be ok at the right moment.


That last bit, "ok at the right moment" is strange phrasing. Is it some kind of cultural expression that doesn't directly translate? Like "in the fulness of time"? Maybe someone can unpack it or give an "English" equivalent?
 
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Zimeon wrote:
Friman wrote:
So, again, you don't care about the water being wet, as long as you get water.

...

"Being wet" is an inseparable aspect of "water". "Being Hasbro's executive" is not an inseparable aspect of "Baker". It just happens to be that way, but it could end being that way at any instant.

...


If you freeze water, then it's not wet anymore.

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Friman wrote:
Maybe you want to take a look this time at the threads before posting, specially the one featuring the GZ interview with Dionisio, in which he states the reason why he can't credit Stephen Baker...


Whether he cannot or won't, or can and will is beyond what I said. I merely said that I'd like the originator credited, and don't care about the company's seal. And yes, it was a pretty general statement. Because as we all know, nothing of this is very likely to see the light of day.

tocoking wrote:
If you freeze water, then it's not wet anymore.


It's also not water anymore.
 
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