Recommend
11 
 Thumb up
 Hide
214 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »  [9] | 

The Ancient World» Forums » General

Subject: The Ancient World Playtesting- PHASE 2 rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ryan Laukat
United States
Sandy
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hello everyone! For the sake of clarity, I wanted to start a new thread for further playtesting. I'd like to try the game with these rule changes:

(Please don't permanently mark changes on your cards, because we might change them back. A good way to make changes might be to use cut-up sticky notes, or masking tape.)

Changes

1. Roll the damage die once per star on the Titan card when you attack.

2. Players may not retire Military cards that have been used in the same round.

3. -2 VP per starving Citizen at the end of the game. Count this before repairing all Empire cards for final VP tribe banner count.

4. Rolling the coin symbol on the damage die means you LOSE 1 coin.

5. District action costs 3 coins OR one knowledge.

6. One-star Titans do not give capacity (unless they have no special ability).

7. Remove the FORTRESS from the game.

8. The MOON FESTIVAL is now in the A deck, and costs 2 coins +1 knowledge.

9. Your player board now only gives 1 food but 4 capacity (do not play with starting districts). All players now start with 2 new Empire cards, "WHEAT FIELDS" and "BOAT". Each of these Empire cards gives 1 food.

10. Players cannot place a citizen with a skill higher than 3 on GROW.

11. Draft may never give more than 3 swords.

Download for new cards/updates:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h5xh6ucgjtsi47d/print_01.pdf
https://www.dropbox.com/s/415jnfryysw76rw/print_02.pdf
11 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Drew Sonnenberg
United States
Rock Hill
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You say that your player board provides 4 capacity. Is this in addition to having a starting district? or as opposed to having a starting district?

The first option starts you with 7 capacity (2 of which are immediately used by Wheat Fields and Fishing Boat).

The second option starts you with 4 capacity (2 of which are used).

I think you mean the 2nd option, but I just want to be sure.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian B.
United States
Nashua
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wow. #9 is a really clever way to solve the the "roll damage when you have no buildings" issue. Nice!

And #7 is really good, too. I think the only way to keep FORTRESS is to price it so high that it becomes unlikely you'd get to purchase it. (Or, in the future, make it 1 VP per 2 swords.)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Laukat
United States
Sandy
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dedlius wrote:
You say that your player board provides 4 capacity. Is this in addition to having a starting district? or as opposed to having a starting district?


I forgot to mention to not play with starting districts. So you would start with 4 capacity, 2 of which is taken up by the 2 starting empire cards.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Laukat
United States
Sandy
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
brianmbe wrote:
Wow. #9 is a really clever way to solve the the "roll damage when you have no buildings" issue. Nice!

And #7 is really good, too. I think the only way to keep FORTRESS is to price it so high that it becomes unlikely you'd get to purchase it. (Or, in the future, make it 1 VP per 2 swords.)


Thanks! I hope these solve some problems.

Yeah, I guess it could come back in at 1 VP per 2 Swords.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Drew Sonnenberg
United States
Rock Hill
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Game 5

Scores:
Me - R:6, Y:4, G:6, B:11, P:2, B:0 - 29
Jill - R:2, Y:11, G:8, B:4, P:4, B:0 - 29

Jill won because she had about 10 more coins than I did.


Well, it looks like the new changes are working!

The changes definitely made capacity more relevant. We both liked that the 1 star Titans that didn't have a special ability still gave you capacity. That was helpful without being too helpful. We both ended up having to buy a district and both ran into situations where we were unable to buy certain buildings we wanted because of not having enough capacity.

We once again, ran out of 1 star Titans pretty early on (Round 3 I believe). I think just a few more would be good. Like you said, it's nice to have a race to beat the 1 star Titans.

Jill ended up buying a bunch of buildings early on (because a lot of useful buildings showed up early). I only bought a few (a Shrine, and a few that gave me extra military strength). As a result, she had a nice economy (she also happened to get the 1 star Titans that provided a Coin every round). I was short on money the whole game. However, I spent most of the early rounds Recruiting and Jill could not afford many of them (cause she didn't have Knowledge and she used most of her money on buildings).

I had the stronger military, and was able to start taking down the bigger Titans more quickly, but by the end of the game my options started to become limited due to my lack of money. Jill meanwhile could do just about anything she wanted by Round 6 because she had plenty of money flowing in. She got her armies strong enough to take down several 2 star Titans and catch up to me in banners (she also have plenty of banners form all the buildings she was able to guy).

The game is starting to feel really well balanced (there's still work to do, but this was a huge step in the right direction). Jill was never trying to ignore Titans, she just saw good buildings and pounced on them early. I was always focused on Titans and neglected my economy. By the end we were pretty well even, which is about what you'd hope for.

Losing a coin from the damage die is a nice change, and it makes the Rebuild action feel more balanced. The addition of the starter buildings that require food also feels right and makes the Rebuild action more important early on.

I think that's about all I'll say for now. I want to get a few more games in with all the rule changes, but it definitely feels really good at this point.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian B.
United States
Nashua
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If there's room in the rulebook for an Achievements page, what would be some interesting things to do?

Some obvious ones:

Score 25+ points.
Score 30+ points.
Score 35+ points.
Score 40+ points.
Win by 15+ (?) points.
Have 5 Armies at game end.
Defeat 10+ (?) Titans.
Build 10+ (?) Empire cards.
Have 9+ (?) [Blue, Green, etc.] banners at game end.
Defeat 3+ (?) Level-3 Titans.
Score 8+ (?) points with SALT MINE.
Have 5+ (?) Knowledge at game end.

Some goofy ones:

Win with 2+ starving Citizens.
Have 5+ (?) damaged Empire cards before endgame scoring.
Have 3+ (?) stored Empire cards at game end.
Win with less than 20 points.
Score less than 15 points.

Some in-game achievements:

Produce 3+ (?) Swords in 1 round with the Draft action.
Build 3+ (?) times in 1 round.
Have 5 Citizens before round 4.
Produce 12+ (?) Income in 1 round.

And so on...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Brooks
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
Proud writer for iSlayTheDragon
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mechanicalfish wrote:
9. Your player board now only gives 1 food but 4 capacity (do not play with starting districts). All players now start with 2 new Empire cards, "WHEAT FIELDS" and "BOAT". Each of these Empire cards gives 1 food.


That's exactly the kind of change I was hoping for! Really clever way of making even the early Titan battles feel dangerous. I'm excited to try these changes out, hopefully Expand and Rebuild will get a little more action this time around.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Brooks
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
Proud writer for iSlayTheDragon
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I really like the new starting Empire cards and Capacity of 2 it created some real tension right from turn 1.

Scores:
Player 1 - R:1, Y:6, G:6, B:8, P:6, B:0, S:-2 = 25
Player 2 - R:8, Y: 4, G:4, B:11, P:4, B:0, S:0 = 31


Flag Breakdown
Player 1 - 7 from Buildings, 11 from Titans (3/1/2) = 18
Player 2 - 3 from Buildings, 17 from Titans (4/5/1) = 20

The starting District had Food which was really attractive since you could take damage on one of your Boat/Wheat Field and still be able to feed your people. I was rolling broken pillars on almost every Titan damage so Rebuild was taken more often than normal and Player 2 had to starve a worker one round because one of his starting Food got damaged. Also, at the end Player 1 rolled 3 pillars from a 3-star Titan and had to flip a food so he ended the game with a starving worker.

Both the 2-star and 3-star Titans started the game with a sword-only Titan on top and I didn't draw any units with double sword or Legacy sword abilities all game. It took until I got my 4 workers (round 4) until I could take down the first 2-star Titan and I wasn't able to Kill Magma Beast until round 6 (5+3 workers on Draft = 4 swords, worker on empire building that gives 2 swords, two buildings with swords, and a unit with a sword). Anybody else have games like that?

My builder didn't see any of the bonus buildings (including a round 4 Explore) despite having tons of money. If one had come up and he wouldn't have had to starve a citizen at the end it would have been really close.

The Capacity was pretty tough for my Builder (Player 2) so he ended up switching to military part way through. The attacker never had any problems with Capacity.

Can't wait to give this another try!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Garbe
United States
Waukesha
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
The Ancient World Playtest
Ben Garbe (4)


Used the rules changes listed in the first post of this thread (as of 1/19/14) with the following additional change:

*Removed Capacity from ALL Lv. 1 Titans, instead adding +1 income to any Lv. 1 Titans without a bonus


Results

AG: 8 Red + 11 Yellow + 0 Blue + 1 Green + 2 Purple + 6 Bonus = 28
BG: 2 Red + 4 Yellow + 11 Blue + 2 Green + 8 Purple + 0 Bonus = 27

OTHER Results


Player: Lv.1 Titan / Lv.2 / Lv.3 / Cap vs. Emp / Districts / Workers

AG: 3 / 3 / 0 / 7 vs. 5 / 1 / 5
BG: 4 / 3 / 1 / 7 vs. 5 / 1 / 4


Thoughts/Notes

First of all, the latest rules tweaks = AWESOME! It made for a much tighter game with a greater sense of "not being able to do all the things you want to do" (which is the sign of a great worker placement game in my opinion). Also, after several plays I'm still coming across new Empire cards that I've never seen before which is a great indication of the game's replayability

Amy initiated a blocking war with her very first action by placing her 3-skilled worker on Learn (knowledge was needed for several of the Empires, one of the Military cards, and the District that provided a sword). The rest of the game proceeded something like this:

- Ben takes Empire w/ food forcing Amy to starve a worker
- Amy blocks Districts preventing Ben from adding any more Empires
- Ben blocks Draft, preventing Amy from defeating any of the 3-star Titans
- Amy blocks Learn, preventing Ben from building a much-desired Empire
- Ben takes Arrow-providing Empire, preventing Amy from defeating any of the 3-star Titans (again) devil

It was a bit of a "mean" game on both sides but I wasn't quite mean enough... Despite having more banners (18 vs. 14), Amy was able to squeak out the victory due to the "+1 for each yellow banner" bonus she got. In the right situations, these bonus VP cards are clearly game-changing and in future games I'll have to try to be more defensive and maybe Explore and store them in order to prevent my opponent from getting them (though I think Amy might have flipped the table had I done that this game haha )

Questions

1) PUBLIC HOUSE provides a bonus action space for it's owner that grants 1st player + knowledge. How does this card interact with the normal 1st player action space (Rebuild)? Is 1st player for the next round granted to whoever activates one of these spaces first?

2) There is a NOMAD CAMP in the A deck that allows it's owner to place a worker to gain 1 sword and there is a NOMAD CAMP in the B deck that grants 1 food with a "wild" banner. Can one player build both of these Empires or does that violate the "Only 1 of each empire" rule? (they seem quite different...)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Brooks
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
Proud writer for iSlayTheDragon
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Action Analysis - Expand
Some premature evaluations based on mostly 2-player games

One of my favorite aspects of these rules is that players are encouraged to use the Expand action but not necessarily forced into it. I especially like how first turn Expand is not only a reasonable option but possibly very useful now. This is a great start but I see the potential to make them a more dynamic part of the game. Since it's become a bigger part with the new rules I'm going to look at what I like and don't like about the Expand action and District card mix.

Supporting Building
Districts are obviously useful for their Capacity, allowing you to construct more buildings. I like the idea that they will also support your building efforts since you are buying them with the intent to build. Here are some of the interactions I’ve enjoyed so far:

1. Alternate income - Instead of just providing a coin per turn income they give you a revenue source based on what’s going on in the game. This adds a really nice element of interaction and provides the owner with an income to construct new buildings.

2. Abilities during building - Since you are planning to build anyways it’s nice when Districts provide an ability that will be used during building. This can either let you specialize the way you’re building or just do it more efficiently.

3. Synergy with Kingdom cards - By providing synergy with buildings this might make some buildings (perhaps undervalued ones) more attractive. Instead of providing benefits during building it provides them after by interacting with the cards you built. This plays to the strength of tableau building.

With those themes in mind here's a look at the current District card mix, I've grouped them into categories to make them easier to compare:

Districts - Very Useful
1. Sword
This is probably the best District hands down not only because it increases your military but because it's the extremely valuable Sword. I've taken the Expand action just for the Sword not because I wanted the Capacity. This seems to go against the idea of the Expand action and doesn't fit in with any of the themes. Here are some alternate options that still fit with the military aspect but better interact with building:
*Every worker placed on an Empire card provides (Sword)
*If you currently have 0 Capacity left: (Sword + Arrow)

2. Food {Synergy}
This one is a very interesting alternative to Empire cards with a similar price point (3 vs 2-4). Here's a comparison:
*District advantage: 3 Capacity, can’t be damaged
*Empire (A) advantage: Flag (VP), bonus (Sword, Income, Arrow x 2)

I likes this one but don't love it. It does have a slight interaction with the new starting Empire cards since it lets them get damaged or overbuilt and still maintain 3 Food. It also interacts with a number of cards that care about Food. It's probably nice to have some simple Districts so I won't suggest complicated alternatives.

Districts - Reactive Abilities {Alternate income}
These should always pay for themselves if purchased early and potential provide a nice source of income. The ones that care about neighbors (adjacent) may be tricky to balance between 2 and 3+ player games because they are obviously better with more neighbors.

1. When Adj defeats Titan (Coin)
This one is a solid investment. You need Titans for banners and Capacity so you know this will pay off. This fits the builder niche really well because your power heavy neighbor will feed you income.

2. When Adj gains Knowledge (Coin)
This is less reliable than [1] and will probably provides less income in general but it's still a good investment. You can't easily ignore Knowledge so it should pay off in most games.

3. When You gain Capacity (Coin)
This is easier to control than [1,2] because you're not relying on your neighbors to do something but it is potentially less profitable as a result (especially with 3+ players). It's weaker now that 1-star Titans don’t provide much Capacity and will be more useful in the second half of the game. Perhaps it could ve changed to give it an interesting interaction with further Expanding:
*Gain (Coin) for each Capacity you gain

4-5. When You gain Flag (Green/Blue), If you have most (Coin x 2) {Building Ability}
This one is highly conditional and can be very profitable if you get it early but nearly useless if you can’t trigger it. I wouldn't mind this so much if you have an option of which District to select (more on this later). I really like how it can be triggered during building and encourages you to really focus on a specific color. I wouldn't mind having one of these for every color. To make it less conditional I'd far prefer something like this:
*When You gain (Flag) gain (Coin), if you have most instead gain (Coin x 2)

Districts - Building {Building Ability, Synergy}
These ones can really make a building strategy interesting and are the model for what I would like to see more of in the District deck.

1. Stored cards cost -2 (Coin) to build
Unfortunately you have to use it twice to get it to pay for itself so simply changing it to -3 (Coin) would at least allow you to break even after one Explore. You're obviously encouraged to Explore so it has nice Synergy with Empire cards that give bonuses to Explore. The potential that I see in this one is that it interacts really well with ZORI DRAMATISTS. The big stipulation here is that there’s only 1 copy of ZORI so it’s unlikely to occur often. Also ZORI can be kind of tricky to use so it's not even guaranteed to work. There's potential here for something really neat by adding more Empire cards with a way to store (probably hard to balance).

2. You may replace built Empire cards for -4 Coin cost of new card
This is probably the most nuanced of District cards and is exactly what I think more cool District abilities could be like. It pays for itself after one use, but at the tradeoff of losing a flag so that's a big conditional that must be used wisely. Now that capacity is tighter and damage is higher this one could be really useful. You can both build over damaged buildings or build when at full Capacity. It also has really cool interaction with starting Empire cards, if you have extra food you can build over them without having to suffer the loss of a flag. I love this one.

Districts - Bad
1. Learn Cost -1 (Coin)
You have to Learn three times just to break even, clearly this is not worth it compared to the other Districts. It would still be neat to have a Knowledge based ability so here's an alternative that I came up with:
*You may buy Knowledge whenever you want at the cost of (Coin x 4)
You are basically paying one Coin to save yourself an action. I'm not sure if it would be too strong but I think I'll try it out to see how it goes.

Thoughts On Expand
I was considering having 2 Districts showing at once so players could have more options for what abilities they would like when they Expand. You could think of it like deciding where to expand between several neighboring regions. This is a little more thematic and gives some nice choices. If being able to block Expand is too brutal with tight capacity it could get special placement rules that the first person to go there gets a choice of the two and the second person gets what’s left (perhaps at a higher price).

Other Observations
Districts are best purchased in the first half of the the game because you are low on Capacity and can’t yet get to the 2-star/3-star Titans. This will likely mean that Expand will get selected far less in the second half of the game. Not necessarily a bad thing just something to note.

I'm planning to do some similar analysis on the other actions, particularly Grow, Explore, Rebuild, and Draft. Obviously Build and Recruit are key actions so I'm curious to hear how others are evaluating them.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Brooks
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
Proud writer for iSlayTheDragon
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Also, this is somewhat unrelated to Phase 2 but I wanted to show how I've been doing my setup lately. I've tried to group the actions by the cards that they interact with to make finding the actions easy. Build is located next to the Empire cards (bottom left), Recruit next to the units (middle left), and Expand next to the Districts (top right). Explore and Rebuild are directly to the right of Build since they associate with buildings and Draft is up top by the Titans since it's used to help attack them. The next column over has to do with currency (Labor, Learn). Finally, I put Grow in the last column with Expand to help fill the space. I usually place the 4 and 5 workers in each color next to the Grow spot to show their relation to that action but forgot to include them in the picture below. The weirdest thing I did was to place the Recruit and Build cards vertical to line up with the decks. Here's how it looks:



I'm up for suggestions but I've found this format helps to organize the information/choices well and reduces some of the clutter. Any thoughts on ways to improve it?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Brooks
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
Proud writer for iSlayTheDragon
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My second game with the newest rules and I'm continuing to be impressed by the way that the starting Empire buildings have tightened up the game. This was a really close game with drastically divergent strategies, it's always good to see when that can happen in games.

Scores:
Player 1 - R:6, Y:11(7), G:6, B:6, P:2, B:0 = 31
Player 2 - R:11, Y: 11, G:6, B:1, P:4, B:0 = 33


Flag Breakdown
Player 1 - 3 from Buildings, 18 from Titans (4/4/2) = 21
Player 2 - 9 from Buildings, 11 from Titans (3/4/0) = 20

Misc Stats:
Player 1 - 3 Citizens, 3 Buildings, 3 Armies, 6 Military cards
Player 2 - 5 Citizens, 7 Buildings, 2 Armies, 4 Military cards

Both players focused on a strategy pretty quickly based on strong initial buildings. Player 1 got CAVERN INN (Army, Sword) and decided to try and attack as much as possible. I haven't tried out the extra Army strategy yet so it was very interesting to see. The 1-star Titans were nearly gone by the end of round 2! He picked up both Oozing Creeper (Sword) and Sand Screamer (Arrow) and in Empire B added COURT HOUSE (Arrow + Sword) to help boost the Armies. The units that showed up were mostly Knowledge-cost ones so this meant he had fewer but more powerful units. Money and actions were pretty tight from Learning and paying three separate Armies so he only ended up with 2 buildings during Empire A. He had to then face the challenge of keeping both starting Empire buildings operational (to prevent starving) along with his CAVERN INN (to keep the third Army slot) under pressure from Titan damage. I liked this balancing act. He made more frequent use of Rebuild then any previous game I've had to this point. This was a really fun twist on my traditional big Army strategy. I initially thought this strategy would win easily due to all the bonuses to attack from Titans and buildings but the damage and upkeep really balanced it nicely and prevented it from running away. Swapping the coin result on the damage die to losing a coin made a BIG difference and can make attacking really hurt. As a result of getting most of his flags from Titans he had less control of the colors he was picking up and ended with 7 yellow banners which cost him the game (any other color would have resulted in a tie which I think he would have won on the tie breaker). Paying more attention to banner color during attacking would have definitely helped, I'm used to just taking what I get from an attack rather than timing it for the right colors.

Player 2 had a nearly opposite approach which focused a lot more on building and getting all his citizens quickly. He picked up a first turn HIGHLAND TOWN (Citizen, Coin Income). It cost Knowledge so he was pretty limited on what else he could do but managed to defeat a Titan that gave Capacity as well to make room for future building. The extra Capacity was critical as he was able to then build both FISHING SHIP and VINEYARDS in the next turn to get up to 5 Food in preparation for round 3 Growth. Having 4 fed Citizens by round 3 was great since taking Grow normally limits you to 2 actions. He was then able to pick up a District (coin for Capacity) as well as a PIRATES (Coin when adj attacks) to leech Player 1's killing spree. The second half of the game was wide open since he had so many citizens so he tried to leverage Drafting (3+5 for 4 swords) and Explored to make up for a poor card selection. No bonus buildings showed up but he was able to store a double banner MONUMENT. The coolest moment of the game was deciding how to maximize points in the last round. He still had MONUMENT (Overbuild for -4 cost) stored when a BRIDGE (red double banner) showed up. He was able to double draft like normal and pick up a Knowledge with his third action (with one already available from the previous round). Then came the big point run as he impressively defeated two 2-star Titans with tiny armies followed by building MONUMENT and using its discount to afford also building BRIDGE. The overbuild allowed the replacement of his weakest color (blue). He was able to max out both red and yellow with the double banner buildings. Capacity was a great limiter for him and encouraged the mid game switch to attacking to add more building space. He frequently had to attack before he could build because he was right at Capacity.

Thoughts:
I liked that both players were able to stay competitive despite one having 5 citizens early and the other sticking with his initial 3. The fact that the player with 3 citizens was able to pick up an extra Army effectively meant he had an extra action to make up for it. I'm finding that I have grossly underestimated the value of the extra Army. I think the main reason for this is I've never seen CAVERN INN before and it seems like a much better version of the more common WALLED CITY due to not costing a Knowledge and, more importantly, coming with a Sword. It does cost more (6 Coins vs 1 Knowledge) but saves you an action since you don't have to Learn. The Sword is the real clincher because it's extra effective with more Armies in play. I'll have to reassess WALLED CITY the next time that it comes up now that I've seen this strategy in action, I've ignored it up until this point.

The other really powerful building that showed up early was HIGHLAND TOWN which allowed Player 2 to not only have his 4-citizen on round 2 but actually have four citizens active by round 3 which is normally impossible. This lead to having five citizens active on round 4 which is also normally impossible. I resisted the boring strategy of placing the 3-4-5 citizens on Draft every turn for some mega Titan killing but I wonder if it would have been extremely effective. The obvious downside would have been the damage but he still had 2 actions left to Rebuild. I like the presence of cards like HIGHLAND TOWN that let you do things that you normally can't.

This was a great game that highlighted some of the diverse strategies that the buildings can bring into the game. I would really like the presence of more game changers in the Empire A deck to promote these kind of games.

Question:
What happens if you have no money and roll a coin result on the damage die?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J W
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
dotKeller wrote:
Also, this is somewhat unrelated to Phase 2 but I wanted to show how I've been doing my setup lately. I've tried to group the actions by the cards that they interact with to make finding the actions easy. Build is located next to the Empire cards (bottom left), Recruit next to the units (middle left), and Expand next to the Districts (top right). Explore and Rebuild are directly to the right of Build since they associate with buildings and Draft is up top by the Titans since it's used to help attack them. The next column over has to do with currency (Labor, Learn). Finally, I put Grow in the last column with Expand to help fill the space. I usually place the 4 and 5 workers in each color next to the Grow spot to show their relation to that action but forgot to include them in the picture below. The weirdest thing I did was to place the Recruit and Build cards vertical to line up with the decks. Here's how it looks:



I'm up for suggestions but I've found this format helps to organize the information/choices well and reduces some of the clutter. Any thoughts on ways to improve it?


Your setup is very similar to our setup. Before our first game, we felt that there was a slight disconnect between actions and the cards they referenced. We took a photo last week of our setup but haven't posted it. We'll upload it soon
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J W
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
dotKeller wrote:
I really like the new starting Empire cards and Capacity of 2 it created some real tension right from turn 1.

Scores:
Player 1 - R:1, Y:6, G:6, B:8, P:6, B:0, S:-2 = 25
Player 2 - R:8, Y: 4, G:4, B:11, P:4, B:0, S:0 = 31


Flag Breakdown
Player 1 - 7 from Buildings, 11 from Titans (3/1/2) = 18
Player 2 - 3 from Buildings, 17 from Titans (4/5/1) = 20

The starting District had Food which was really attractive since you could take damage on one of your Boat/Wheat Field and still be able to feed your people. I was rolling broken pillars on almost every Titan damage so Rebuild was taken more often than normal and Player 2 had to starve a worker one round because one of his starting Food got damaged. Also, at the end Player 1 rolled 3 pillars from a 3-star Titan and had to flip a food so he ended the game with a starving worker.

Both the 2-star and 3-star Titans started the game with a sword-only Titan on top and I didn't draw any units with double sword or Legacy sword abilities all game. It took until I got my 4 workers (round 4) until I could take down the first 2-star Titan and I wasn't able to Kill Magma Beast until round 6 (5+3 workers on Draft = 4 swords, worker on empire building that gives 2 swords, two buildings with swords, and a unit with a sword). Anybody else have games like that?

My builder didn't see any of the bonus buildings (including a round 4 Explore) despite having tons of money. If one had come up and he wouldn't have had to starve a citizen at the end it would have been really close.

The Capacity was pretty tough for my Builder (Player 2) so he ended up switching to military part way through. The attacker never had any problems with Capacity.

Can't wait to give this another try!


Did either player find it frustrating that the 2-star Titans and the 3-star Titans were sword only? We play 2 player, and our first game with the new changes was very enjoyable, the game felt more balanced, capacity was a little tense, but it felt like there was always something to do to gain more banners.

In our second game, one of us had two armies, each with 6 attack strength (but due to the military cards that were available, each army had only 1 sword). The first 2-star Titan was easy to dispatch, but it revealed a 5-sword Titan. That player then defeated the 3-star Titan, and revealed a 9-sword Titan. All of a sudden, this powerful army was almost useless in the face of these two sword-only Titans. It was game changing. The player pursuing the Military lost due to these unlucky circumstances. The builder player had a monopoly on food, and had 5 Citizens, while Military had 3 Citizens. This means that the Draft action was much more powerful for the builder. It was a strange situation, and kind of took the fun out of the game.

We felt that due to the random nature of how Military is revealed, and how the Titans are randomly turned up, there's not a good way to plan a military that can handle sword-only Titans. It is very luck based, and in a game that lasts for 60 minutes, it feels really deflating to have a strategy that works really well, until something like a sword-only Titan shows up.

Someone that pursues a Build heavy strategy doesn't have swings of fortune this crippling. If you have a lot of money, you'll be able to build at least one or two things that get flipped up every round. To compare this to Military, and how Swords and Arrows are different currencies, imagine if you earn gold for half the game, and during round 4, a majority of Empires cost 4 scrolls each. It's hard to get scrolls, and this would really affect one's ability to build Empires if it came as a surprise.

The Draft action helps mitigate this, but I wonder if it's under powered. In the situation that I noted above, if the military player wanted to use Draft to defeat one of the sword-only Titans, it would have required two Citizens and both armies, plus a bonus sword on an empire. If the Titans were "normal" that player could have defeated 2 titans in one turn.

In our most recent game, sword-only Titans stalled the game for the military player in a discouraging way, and since the other player was Building, there wasn't much the Military player could do.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J W
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
As I was writing the previous post, I started to wonder if the limited availability of food, and how much luck plays into it's appearing in the game, puts an artificial crutch on the Grow action.

It's not so much a choice of Grow or don't Grow, quite often it's not even an option. This can be frustrating when one player gets an extra food and an extra Citizen, and gets the only card that gives food for the entire game.

Is there another way that the Grow action can be limited, but made available every game? It could be as simple as when you Grow, you gain a new Empire that has a food on it (this would drastically affect Salt Mines though-the card that gives a point per food.) This means that you have to have enough capacity to grow a Citizen. (Granted, you'd have taken up this capacity with an Empire that gives you the food in the first place.)

It just feels that the current limitation to the Grow action is swingy and luck based, and an extra Citizen or two can be very powerful. It's ok to not Grow if it's a choice, it's not as fun when it's not an option.

How do others feel about the limited availability of food and the Grow action?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Brooks
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
Proud writer for iSlayTheDragon
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
philosophygrrrl wrote:
Did either player find it frustrating that the 2-star Titans and the 3-star Titans were sword only?

...

We felt that due to the random nature of how Military is revealed, and how the Titans are randomly turned up, there's not a good way to plan a military that can handle sword-only Titans

...

The Draft action helps mitigate this, but I wonder if it's under powered. In the situation that I noted above, if the military player wanted to use Draft to defeat one of the sword-only Titans, it would have required two Citizens and both armies, plus a bonus sword on an empire. If the Titans were "normal" that player could have defeated 2 titans in one turn.

In our most recent game, sword-only Titans stalled the game for the military player in a discouraging way, and since the other player was Building, there wasn't much the Military player could do.


I have had games where I was quite frustrated by the sword-only Titans, particularly the Magma Beast (the 3-star one). This doesn't mean it's necessarily bad design just that I'm still trying to figure out the best way to defeat them.

I was planning to do a write-up on the Draft action next and this specifically relates to the Sword-only Titans. Their presence is necessary to make the Draft action worthwhile in it's current form but I feel 5 and 9 Sword-only are a bit much for a military player to reliably defeat regardless of the cards that come out. With a bad distribution of Buildings and Units a military player can be nearly hopeless in the presence of sword-only Titans. Ironically Building-heavy players that focus on Growth have a better chance due to the ability to double Draft for 4 Swords.

What I've found is that a military player absolutely NEEDS to plan around facing the 5 Sword Titans since they compose half (4/8) of the 2-Star Titan deck. It should therefore be a common occurrence and if you're going military heavy and are not ready for it then you're likely going to lose. The main ways that I've found to reliably defeat them with a single army is to get at least two extra sources of swords (Titan, Building, Double Sword unit, Legacy Sword, or Extra Army) and then Draft with the 1 and 3 or 4-worker for 2 more. Otherwise you'll need to use both armies which you don't really want to do often. This is either very setup dependent or requires waiting until round 4 assuming that you even get to take Grow in round 3 (essentially you need to Rebuild in round 2). Both scenarios are not ideal.

Hopefully I can get to my Draft write-up tonight so I can expand on this in more detail but I do think the sword-only Titans need to change in order to be more reliably defeated (but still challenging).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Brooks
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
Proud writer for iSlayTheDragon
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
philosophygrrrl wrote:
It just feels that the current limitation to the Grow action is swingy and luck based, and an extra Citizen or two can be very powerful. It's ok to not Grow if it's a choice, it's not as fun when it's not an option.

How do others feel about the limited availability of food and the Grow action?


I'll be doing a write-up on the Grow action as well soon. I think it's less straight forward then it may appear at first. More citizens are certainly useful, in particular getting the 4-worker for Drafting, but there are other useful strategies and I've seen players do well without ever Growing (see my second game). Fortunately the Grow action has an opportunity cost for getting your extra citizens (takes an action and 3 coins plus requires a food to use them). This upfront cost helps to balance out the advantage of having extra workers in the second half of the game. I personally like the way Food is implemented so that you can't necessarily count on getting your extra workers is food is scarce. This leads to more varied games and prevents scripted strategies based around getting all your Citizens.

Another thing worth noting is that it can still be worth taking the Grow action even when you don't have enough food. It unlocks your 4-worker and still provides the opportunity to feed in the later rounds. I've found this to be extremely useful (and almost required) for military strategies.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian B.
United States
Nashua
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dotKeller wrote:
philosophygrrrl wrote:
It just feels that the current limitation to the Grow action is swingy and luck based, and an extra Citizen or two can be very powerful. It's ok to not Grow if it's a choice, it's not as fun when it's not an option.

How do others feel about the limited availability of food and the Grow action?


I'll be doing a write-up on the Grow action as well soon. I think it's less straight forward then it may appear at first. More citizens are certainly useful, in particular getting the 4-worker for Drafting, but there are other useful strategies and I've seen players do well without ever Growing (see my second game). Fortunately the Grow action has an opportunity cost for getting your extra citizens (takes an action and 3 coins plus requires a food to use them). This upfront cost helps to balance out the advantage of having extra workers in the second half of the game. I personally like the way Food is implemented so that you can't necessarily count on getting your extra workers is food is scarce. This leads to more varied games and prevents scripted strategies based around getting all your Citizens.

Another thing worth noting is that it can still be worth taking the Grow action even when you don't have enough food. It unlocks your 4-worker and still provides the opportunity to feed in the later rounds. I've found this to be extremely useful (and almost required) for military strategies.


ABOUT FOOD: It is actually fairly rare that no food will show up from the A deck. In a 2-player game, for example, there is a 94% chance that *at least* 1 food will show up in the buy pool in the first 3 rounds. This figure increases with the number of players. (Of course, so does the demand for that food.) In a 2-player game, the average number of food cards to appear over the life of the A deck is 2.11. Getting more than 4 food cards to show up is very rare. (About 2%.) Also note that *none* of the A deck food cards require knowledge (in fact, they're all cheap) and only 3 of the 8 B deck food cards require knowledge (the 3 METROPOLIS cards, which also provide a citizen).

I quite like this, although I'll admit I haven't yet experienced the "outlier" game, so I can't comment on how frustrating that situation may or may not be. I can say, though, that in games where food *wasn't* particularly scarce, players have still, by choice, competed with only 3 citizens. The player who gets 5 by round 5 isn't a lock to win, in my limited experience.

ABOUT MILITARY STRATEGIES getting stalled by the randomness of the Titan cards: This may be more of a philosophical issue. Personally, I enjoy the fact that I may not be able to 100% commit to a strategy that I chose before the game started. Being able to tactically adapt to the situation (to a point) is a feature in games for me, not a bug.

One of my favorite games is Ra: The Dice Game. I love how you are mostly free to pursue whatever avenues you want, but if you don't roll what you want on a particular turn, it's often foolish (suboptimal) to *not* accept what you have and reroll too many dice looking for something else.

I enjoy how the game system itself contributes to the "story" of the experience. If I pursue a heavy military strategy, and I am always able to do everything I want on my way to pursuing that strategy, then it was me who created the story. If sometimes I'm blocked due to circumstances and I'm forced to adapt, or temporarily change my direction, then that's the "game" contributing to the story, and I like that.

But there *is* a sweet spot for this. For example, never having enough swords/arrows to attack 3-star Titans would be just as much of a problem as always being able to build towards that.

The thing is, are we in the sweet spot with food scarcity? With military potentially getting stalled? I think yes on both, but I'm slightly less confident with the all-sword Titans. Again, though, this opinion is biased by my own preferences in games and in particular my own experience so far with The Ancient World.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian B.
United States
Nashua
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
2-Player Game with all of the Phase 2 Rules.

Brian: 23 points: 2 BLUE, 2 GREEN, 2 PURPLE, 4 RED, 11 YELLOW, 2 points from PALACE. 14 coins, 16 cards, 2 knowledge, 5 food, 2 swords, 5 citizens, 2 armies, 6 military, 9 banners from Titans.

Villain: 22 points: 11 BLUE, 0 GREEN, 4 PURPLE, 6 RED, 1 YELLOW. 9 coins, 13 cards, 1 knowledge, 4 food, 10 swords, 4 citizens, 3 armies, 6 military, 11 BFT.

Having 5 citizens allowed me to Explore twice in the final round, fishing for the TEMPLE (7 points for me!). I missed, but got the PALACE instead for 3 points. I used my CRANE from the A deck to build it for free.

The CRANE, when it shows up, is fantastic. It means you can build towards a big VP card and have time to Explore for it late in the game (if it doesn't show up in the buy pool) because you don't need to save or spend an action for knowledge (for example) because you'll be able to build it for free. I didn't get my VP card, but I got something to put me ahead that I wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise.

This is what I was referring to in my post above. A little thing, the CRANE appearing in round 2, informs my strategy and creates an interesting story for that particular game.

12 Titans were defeated this game. Rebuild was taken 5 times, but Expand only once.

Villain was never in any "real" danger of running out of capacity. He finished with 9 cap, I finished with 10 cap. There wasn't much tension or urgency to Expand. The good thing, however, is that we both were paying attention to it. We had to *at least* take notice, and I did need to legitimately Expand once. That's a good thing and a significant step above the old rules, which produced many games where *nobody* Expanded or paid any attention to it because it didn't matter.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Garbe
United States
Waukesha
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
brianmbe wrote:

ABOUT MILITARY STRATEGIES getting stalled by the randomness of the Titan cards: This may be more of a philosophical issue. Personally, I enjoy the fact that I may not be able to 100% commit to a strategy that I chose before the game started. Being able to tactically adapt to the situation (to a point) is a feature in games for me, not a bug.

...

But there *is* a sweet spot for this. For example, never having enough swords/arrows to attack 3-star Titans would be just as much of a problem as always being able to build towards that.

The thing is, are we in the sweet spot with food scarcity? With military potentially getting stalled? I think yes on both, but I'm slightly less confident with the all-sword Titans. Again, though, this opinion is biased by my own preferences in games and in particular my own experience so far with The Ancient World.

My thoughts exactly
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Brooks
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
Proud writer for iSlayTheDragon
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
garbagerunner wrote:
brianmbe wrote:

ABOUT MILITARY STRATEGIES getting stalled by the randomness of the Titan cards: This may be more of a philosophical issue. Personally, I enjoy the fact that I may not be able to 100% commit to a strategy that I chose before the game started. Being able to tactically adapt to the situation (to a point) is a feature in games for me, not a bug.

...

But there *is* a sweet spot for this. For example, never having enough swords/arrows to attack 3-star Titans would be just as much of a problem as always being able to build towards that.

The thing is, are we in the sweet spot with food scarcity? With military potentially getting stalled? I think yes on both, but I'm slightly less confident with the all-sword Titans. Again, though, this opinion is biased by my own preferences in games and in particular my own experience so far with The Ancient World.

My thoughts exactly


This is also reflecting in the scores. Just because someone reports a game with low scores doesn't mean they played poorly. On the contrary, it could mean that they had a difficult distribution of cards to work with. I like the fact that in some games everything will line up nicely and others it will be really challenging and you're simply trying to play the least poorly.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Brooks
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
Proud writer for iSlayTheDragon
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Action Analysis - Grow
Some premature evaluations based on mostly 2-player games

If you’ve played any worker placement games you have learned by now that getting more workers is largely a beneficial thing to do. Sometimes it is almost a requirement to do well in the game. More recent worker placement games are taking this idea and challenging by offering the option to get more workers but making it equally viable to go without. I believe The Ancient World falls pretty soundly in the later camp and repeated plays will show that the Grow action is not a requirement to win but it sure can help.

In order to figure out how useful the Grow action is we’ll have to challenge the notion of gaining citizens as being strictly good and look at both the cost and benefits.

Opportunity Cost
Gaining a Citizen has a fairly significant opportunity cost that nicely balances out the benefits of having extra citizens. It’s therefore not always worth it to Grow if the costs are prohibitive to your strategy. Let’s take a look at what it takes to Grow:

1. One action - You have to place a worker on the Grow action instead of somewhere else

2. Three coins - It then costs three Coins to gain the citizen

3. Building with Food - This one is conditional because you don’t NEED it but it certainly helps to take full advantage of your growth. If you want that Food you’ll have to pass up on some other building. This is even more important at the end of the game where neglecting feeding will cost you points.

4. Upkeep of Food Buildings - If you have the Food to feed your workers then you’ll want to keep those buildings operational. When you take damage from Titans you’ll have to decide between damaging a useful building or one that keeps your workers from starving.

Benefits
Now on to the good news, there are several benefits to gaining a citizen.

1. Extra actions - Depending on when you grow you’ll get a number of extra actions to take in the later rounds. Note that the first time you use this new citizen it is merely matching the action it took to get him so it doesn’t really pay off until you’ve used him a second time. Because of this you obviously want to grow as soon as possible to get the most actions out of your investment. Here’s the quick reference of how many extra actions you’ll get based on when you Grow:
*Round 3: +2 actions
*Round 4: +1 action
*Round 5: break even
*Round 6: -1 action
This isn’t a lot but considering that you only get 18 actions from your citizens during the game having 1 or 2 more can really make a difference. It’s also worth pointing out that these extra actions will be in the later rounds when you have better opportunities to score more points.

2. Higher skill allows flexibility - Having access to higher skill workers is a major benefit to Growth in my opinion. If you are only growing for more actions then you are missing the beauty in the citizen skill system. Having a worker that cannot be blocked or is less likely to get blocked out of an action spot is great. This lets you be more flexible and not rush your placements because you have more reliability that you’ll get to do what you want with your high skill workers. This is obviously dependent on the workers that other players have but being the first to Grow gives an uncontested advantage.

3. Higher skill allows for better board control - Having more high skill citizens can allow you to more effectively block out your opponents from various actions. Action denial (or simply making others pay more for the shared spots) can be just as important as added flexibility in your own actions.

4. Higher skill allows powerful Drafting - Drafting becomes significantly better once you get to your higher skill citizens. The 4-citizen is the first that can Draft for 2 Swords and the 5-citizen can pair with the 3 or 4 to get 4 Swords (or the 3-4-5 for 6)! This is incredibly useful especially considering the sword-only Titans and the main reason why military players should Grow regardless of whether they have sufficient Food.

So is it worth it to Grow? I’d say yes solely based on the fourth point, powerful Drafting. Since killing Titans is the main way to get points it’s an undeniable advantage. The challenge comes when multiple players are Growing. If someone else can match your highest skill worker then you can be blocked from Drafting, forcing you to claim Start Player or send a high skilled worker to a lowly task.

Delayed Action
Grow doesn’t show up until round 3 at which point it is a hot commodity. This has an impact on the game in several ways. If you want to Grow in round 3 you’ll need to claim Start Player in round 2. This generally means taking the Rebuild action but should you do so just for the ability to Grow early, even if you have nothing to Repair? At that point you are effectively spending 2 actions and 2 coins for your 4-citizen. The main advantage is having that uncontested citizen in round 4 and you can then chose to Grow again without anyone being able to stop you. Being able to Grow with an uncontested citizen is a bit of a snowballing effect that I don’t really like. Since it’s an undeniable advantage I would like to propose that you cannot place a citizen higher than skill 3 on Grow in order to prevent it. If the player that Grew in round 3 is able to maintain Start Player and block Grow again with their 3-citizen then that’s fine, at least they had to work for that.

Food Availability/Scarcity
The usefulness of Growth is relative to the amount of Food that shows up. If it was always available then there would always be a mad dash for Grow in round 3 (or as mentioned, Start Player in round 2). There are 8 cards in Empire A (out of the current 46) that provide Food plus one District with Food as well. Chances are pretty good that one or more of these will show up in the first couple of rounds but things get really interesting if none show up. If only one shows up in Round 3 and you take Grow then your opponent will likely counter by claiming the Food. Likewise if only one player has Food then that player is just as incentivized to take Grow for the benefit as his opponent are to take it and block him. The random distribution of Food will create different scenarios that will make players assess how important the Grow action is in the current game state. This is a very good thing in my opinion. If Food is scarce enough then it may even incentivize players to Explore in an attempt to find some.

Growing Through Buildings
Some buildings allow players to gain citizens when they are built. They are much more prevalent in Empire B when the Grow action is readily available (7 of 53, 3 of which also provide Food). This provides the chance to grow even when the action is blocked or possibly grow twice in the same round (though technically you can do that with the Grow action but it is unlikely). These buildings all require Knowledge so they favor players that come in to the round with some. I like their interaction with the Grow action, making it better or worse depending on whether they show up. This is similar to the interaction that the presence of Food has with the Grow action.

Perhaps the most interesting buildings that provide growth are in the Empire A deck, the HIGHLAND TOWN (2 out of 46). They are expensive enough to prevent players from also gaining a Food for 4 active citizens in Turn 2 but still allow for the possibility by Turn 3, a turn earlier than normal. This even more drastically changes the dynamic of the Grow action by bringing citizens into the game early.

Thoughts On Grow
Overall I think that the Grow action is nicely balanced. There are enough incentives to make it worth overcoming the opportunity cost but not so much that it’s the obvious path to victory. The only problem that I currently have is the advantage that the first player to Grow has in being able to have an uncontested second Growth in the following round. I mentioned this above and want to reiterate my solution to restrict the Grow action to workers of skill 3 or lower.

Another thing that I've noticed is that it makes sense (to me) to always block the Grow spot by placing your highest worker there. I'm not sure I like this but I suppose it uses up your highest worker and makes you easier to block elsewhere.

Other Observations
Pertaining specifically to the skill system I like the way that the Draft action cares about higher citizen skill. I was thinking about whether it could be implemented elsewhere so that being blocked from Drafting isn’t so devastating. Perhaps Explore could let higher skilled citizens look at more cards or Rebuild could allow for a variable number of buildings to be repaired based on Skill level. It’s neat to have this system be unique to Draft but I could see it providing interesting choices if you had to decide where to use your higher skill workers besides the obvious Drafting and blocking. Or could shift the balance to making growth too useful but it might be worth experimenting with.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian B.
United States
Nashua
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dotKeller wrote:
2. Higher skill allows flexibility - Having access to higher skill workers is a major benefit to Growth in my opinion. If you are only growing for more actions then you are missing the beauty in the citizen skill system. Having a worker that cannot be blocked or is less likely to get blocked out of an action spot is great. This lets you be more flexible and not rush your placements because you have more reliability that you’ll get to do what you want with your high skill workers. This is obviously dependent on the workers that other players have but being the first to Grow gives an uncontested advantage.


This aspect has had the biggest impact during my plays. Having a 4 worker while my opponent's highest is a 3 is just as important as the few extra actions it will give you. If no good knowledge cards have come out, I can block Learn and force you to Grow (and possibly Rebuild) to give you any chance at keeping up. If you were pursuing military heavily, and the recruitable units all required knowledge, you'd be in a bind if you couldn't produce enough cash to hire those same armies over and over.

What I've enjoyed about this game is that the Empire decks are quite a bit larger than what's needed to fill the buy pool each round. So, in the above situation, my 4 worker vs. your 3, it plays out much differently depending on whether some SCRIBES showed up or not or whether the military units required knowledge or not. My opponent *may* desparately need to match me in the worker race, or he may be able to beat me with his original 3 workers: no Grow actions needed, (perhaps) no Learn needed, no Building *just* for food (can instead focus on better abilities/colors), etc. It all depends.

Interesting analysis!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Garbe
United States
Waukesha
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
The Ancient World Playtest
Ben Garbe (5)


Again, used the rules changes listed in the first post of this thread (as of 1/20/14) with the following additional change:

*Removed Capacity from ALL Lv. 1 Titans, instead adding +1 income to any Lv. 1 Titans without a bonus


Results

BG: 0 Red + 4 Yellow + 4 Blue + 6 Green + 11 Purple + 4 Bonus = 29
AG: 11 Red + 2 Yellow + 11 Blue + 2 Green + 1 Purple + 0 Bonus = 27

OTHER Results


Player: Lv.1 Titan / Lv.2 / Lv.3 / Cap vs. Emp / Districts / Workers

BG: 3 / 1 / 2 / 7 vs. 7 / 0 / 5
AG: 4 / 2 / 1 / 10 vs. 8 / 1 / 4


Gameplay Notes

Gosh I am starting to love this game I enjoyed it from the start, but these rules changes continue to work well and have really turned it into something special.

Of particular note is how tight Capacity is now. In the last round I had just enough money, just enough workers, and the perfect building (ARENA, which grants TWO blue banners) ready to go but I was already maxed out on capacity and didn't have the resources to kill a Titan AND build the Empire (I was ONE sword short... AARRRRHHH!cry)

As others have mentioned, the sword-only Titans can throw a bit of a wrench in your battle plans and that was definitely the case in the middle rounds of this game, but Amy and I were both able to react accordingly and kill a couple of big Titans in the latter rounds.

Other Thoughts
Any other ideas for a way to determine starting player? The past couple games we've had to roll the die over a dozen times before someone rolled a coin

Possible stretch goal for the Kickstarter campaign: score pad. While it's definitely possible for everyone to add up and report their own scores at the end of each game (see Race for the Galaxy), there's something fun about everyone reporting their totals for each color and seeing all the results side-by-side (see 7 Wonders) ...but maybe that's just me

Questions

NONE!
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »  [9] | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.