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Subject: can armor units ram each other? rss

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vasilis xiradakis
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My question is what is going on when an armor unit (LT,MT or HT or MHWZ) rams an enemy armor unit (not an ogre).
Can this be done?
The rules describe what to do when other armor ramming ogres (6.07.2), ramming by GEVs (6.07.3), but in 6.07.4 we read " units other than those specified are too slow,,, to ram effectively.."
But if an armor unit can ram an ogre (destroying itself and damaging only 1 tread) then how can't ram another smaller armed unit?
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Rob Rob
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The ramming unit is squished under the Ogre's giant treads. Other units aren't so big.
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McKinley Hamby
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Huh,, No. If you are playing Ogre, then the "normal" units are all on the same side. If you are playing G.E.V. then the ramming rule is replaced with and overrun rule.

There is an option that if you are using an Ogre in G.E.V. that you could use the ramming rule for the ogre, but it was discourage, as the overrun rule was more realistic. Or at least as realistic as you can be in an SF game.
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Andrew Walters
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In the latest rules section 6.07 says that GEV types can ram other armor units, but other armor units cannot ram each other, or GEVs. It specifies that the units are not fast enough or heavy enough to ram, by which they mean not enough to ram effectively.

Think of a couple of modern MBTs. For one to actually put another one out of action it would have to be moving at a good clip, which means moving in a relatively straight line, which makes it pretty easy to avoid, generally speaking.

Remember that a disabled armor unit still has some capacity to move and defend itself, under computer control if nothing else.

Remember that each armor unit, according to GURPS Ogre, has a 30mm point defense system firing 13 rounds per second of HEAT. This is designed to take out incoming missiles and cannon rounds. It has little difficulty engaging a much bigger, much slower enemy armor unit that wants to actually make contact. 30mm HEAT is never going to defeat the front armor of a HVY, but it can certainly take out a track, stopping the would-be rammer.

So even if the target is disabled or stuck there's a good chance you can't ram it. If it's stuck *and* disabled there are probably better things you can do with your armor unit.

If you want to come up with your own rules for handling deliberate collisions like this they would be interesting, but if ramming were realistically (to the extent we can use that word) weighted they would probably be used very rarely.
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vasilis xiradakis
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Thank's to all of you.
Your answers was very instructive.
My first thought on the subject was that armor units other than GEVs cannot ram except as per size table dictates.(in basic ogre rules).
Then I think that one way that I can handle this is to have the ramming armor unit to make an attack with twice his strenght and then destroyed. Just like GEVs.I think of like a suicide attack, a kamikaze.
But the description of andrewwthumbsup was quite revealing.
I start to play with my 9 year old son and the question was from him. He asked me if he can had armor units and infantry along with his ogre, and then we came to the question of handling ramming for armor units alone.
So, in our simple rules games armor units can't ram. When he becomes familiar enough we can switch to the more complex overrun rules.
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can somebody explain me how ramming works and/or point me to some OGRE tutorial video?

If i want to use only games OGRE versus armor is Quick Start rules enough, or is it still sort of incomplete rulebook?

Whole chapter 6.0 Ramming in Ogre Rulebook (page 13), especially the "size table" in point 6.03 was extremely confusing for me. in fact i wanted to ask the question here sooner or later. But now after reading the previous posts i seem to grasp the idea: only OGRE can be charged by other vehicles, right?

The book doesn't seem to be written better the average Games Workshop game despite year 2014, kickstarter and all. Maybe they were thinking about players playing Ogre since 30 years but it is not especially new player friendly. I spent years long with Battletech and even terrain description at very beginning begs for some sort of table reference. (i had just the rulebook on my ipad and had no EXTRA reference.pdf on hand)

Cheers
Martin
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vasilis xiradakis
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dorelas wrote:
If i want to use only games OGRE versus armor is Quick Start rules enough, or is it still sort of incomplete rulebook?


Yes,quick start rules is enough.

dorelas wrote:
only OGRE can be charged by other vehicles, right?


Basically yes.Paragraph 6.07.3 explains what happen when other armor ram ogres.

dorelas wrote:
especially the "size table" in point 6.03 was extremely confusing for me

The size table is confusing at first glance I agree on that, but that is only the first impression.For example say that you use a GEV to ram. If you ram an ogre then the ogre losses 1 tread (1st column of the table), if you ram a building then the damage done is 1d6 (2nd column of the table) of SP (structure points) to the building and if you ram a train then you make an 1-to-1 attack against the train (3rd column). In any case GEV is destroyed after ramming.If you use a Missile tank instead of GEV then the results would be 1 tread for an ogre,and an 1-to-2 attack to the train. You can't ram a building with missile tank hence the n/a on the building column.The missile tank is destroyed after ramming.

Finally if you want to play the basic scenarios with one side controlling an ogre and the other the armor units, then all you have to do is move (movement phase 4.02.2) and fire (Fire phase 4.02.4) and if you have GEVs a second move for the GEVs.(4.02.5) That's all.
I hope that I was helpfull
Happy Gaming
 
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