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Subject: Spring is Coming 2014 US-Only Math Trade (DISCUSSION) rss

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Mark Rousar
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Anyone have any success with any of the chrome checkbox extensions? I saw a couple in their app store and was gonna try one out this time. Making sure, of course, to double check that it doesn't get too check happy.
 
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This is my 1st math trade. Can anyone tell me how to search for a specific title within the want list on the OLWLG if that is even possible?

For instance, I have TTR: Europe in my wantlist, but I would like to see if any other versions of TTR are in this trade without looking at every item. Is there a way to do that on the OLWLG?
 
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Dekryr wrote:
This is my 1st math trade. Can anyone tell me how to search for a specific title within the want list on the OLWLG if that is even possible?

For instance, I have TTR: Europe in my wantlist, but I would like to see if any other versions of TTR are in this trade without looking at every item. Is there a way to do that on the OLWLG?
Here is what I would do. In step 3 of the OLWLG, at the top you will see this line of text:

Quote:
4 days left to offer (add) games You are only viewing new items added since you last viewed this page. If you would like to view the entire list click here.
Click "click here".

I would then just use your browser to do a page search for which ever title you are looking for.
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JBMoby wrote:
Dekryr wrote:
This is my 1st math trade. Can anyone tell me how to search for a specific title within the want list on the OLWLG if that is even possible?

For instance, I have TTR: Europe in my wantlist, but I would like to see if any other versions of TTR are in this trade without looking at every item. Is there a way to do that on the OLWLG?
Here is what I would do. In step 3 of the OLWLG, at the top you will see this line of text:

Quote:
4 days left to offer (add) games You are only viewing new items added since you last viewed this page. If you would like to view the entire list click here.
Click "click here".

I would then just use your browser to do a page search for which ever title you are looking for.
Ok so just a ctrl+f search is the best way. Thanks.
 
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Ted Marshall
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Also, when you are at the step 3 list, you can click on the word "Game" in the header to sort the list by title. Note that the cursor doesn't change from a text cursor, but it is still clickable, which is confusing.
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mzrousar wrote:
Anyone have any success with any of the chrome checkbox extensions? I saw a couple in their app store and was gonna try one out this time. Making sure, of course, to double check that it doesn't get too check happy.
I use CheckBoxer and have had zero problems with it.
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gonzoron wrote:
mzrousar wrote:
Anyone have any success with any of the chrome checkbox extensions? I saw a couple in their app store and was gonna try one out this time. Making sure, of course, to double check that it doesn't get too check happy.
I use CheckBoxer and have had zero problems with it.
As an aside, if you have a broader set of wants and don't highly discriminate, you can also consider non-duplicate protected groups. Reduces clicking by a LOT.
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I have done a couple of these trades and I have always wondered... why is it such a bad thing to delete items from the list?
What is the logical/technical reasons behind that?
 
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corkysru wrote:
I have done a couple of these trades and I have always wondered... why is it such a bad thing to delete items from the list?
What is the logical/technical reasons behind that?
There are no technical ones, the OLWLG handles it fine.

Some people scan the geeklist and write down the item numbers they're interested in, and deleting items messes up their lists. Frankly, I don't understand how that's a preferable workflow, but how other people assemble their lists isn't my concern.
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Fauxreigner wrote:
corkysru wrote:
I have done a couple of these trades and I have always wondered... why is it such a bad thing to delete items from the list?
What is the logical/technical reasons behind that?
There are no technical ones, the OLWLG handles it fine.

Some people scan the geeklist and write down the item numbers they're interested in, and deleting items messes up their lists. Frankly, I don't understand how that's a preferable workflow, but how other people assemble their lists isn't my concern.
I used to do it that way too. But there is the risk of someone deleting something, so I quit doing it.

I keep my "want in trade" games updated in the Collection page. As I go through the Geeklist for the math trade, if I see some other title I'm interested, I just add it to my collection as "want in trade" and deal with it later in the OLWLG.

I can see the item numbers being essential for GCs and other Out of Scope items, though.
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lgoldberg wrote:
Fauxreigner wrote:
corkysru wrote:
I have done a couple of these trades and I have always wondered... why is it such a bad thing to delete items from the list?
What is the logical/technical reasons behind that?
There are no technical ones, the OLWLG handles it fine.

Some people scan the geeklist and write down the item numbers they're interested in, and deleting items messes up their lists. Frankly, I don't understand how that's a preferable workflow, but how other people assemble their lists isn't my concern.
I used to do it that way too. But there is the risk of someone deleting something, so I quit doing it.

I keep my "want in trade" games updated in the Collection page. As I go through the Geeklist for the math trade, if I see some other title I'm interested, I just add it to my collection as "want in trade" and deal with it later in the OLWLG.

I can see the item numbers being essential for GCs and other Out of Scope items, though.
To be honest... Just book mark the item. Click on the name and then save it as a bookmark. This avoids needing to remember/save the item number. BGG automatically will link to the correct item since you are using the URL which contains the actual geeklist item number(not the number it is on the list). To be completely honest I can't see how a person could participate in a math trade and NOT understand how to use bookmarks in their browsers.

This is probably not the place for the discussion(I believe there is a thread somewhere for this but I don't have the link and I am on limited time at work) but honestly if there is no technical reason I would argue it's easier to have people delete their wrong/traded/whatever items then marking them "unavailable".
My reason for this is two fold:
1) less items on the list(not a good reason necessarily)
2) less subscription notifications of items being edited in the middle of the geeklist.

 
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On the other hand, if someone posts a listing, realizes that it's inaccurate in some way, and relists it, deleting the item means that anyone who was interested in it doesn't know if the item was relisted. Editing the entry allows the poster to provide a link to the updated listing.

It also forces people to change how they add items to their lists for a relatively low benefit.
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corkysru wrote:
I have done a couple of these trades and I have always wondered... why is it such a bad thing to delete items from the list?
What is the logical/technical reasons behind that?
1. As others have already stated, because we want to be accommodating to those who use pre-OLWLG methods.
2. Editing means that the mod gets a subscription hit, and can double check for problems.
3. Editing indicates that you've changed your mind (or whatever) and we're accepting of that; deleting is trying to say "I'm not here and never was" indicating a higher level of dishonesty.
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yaverot wrote:
corkysru wrote:
I have done a couple of these trades and I have always wondered... why is it such a bad thing to delete items from the list?
What is the logical/technical reasons behind that?
1. As others have already stated, because we want to be accommodating to those who use pre-OLWLG methods.
2. Editing means that the mod gets a subscription hit, and can double check for problems.
3. Editing indicates that you've changed your mind (or whatever) and we're accepting of that; deleting is trying to say "I'm not here and never was" indicating a higher level of dishonesty.
Reply to #3)Deleting does not mean that. Deleting means "cleaning things up". Now.. that can mean you were dishonest. Or it can just mean you made a mistake. I am honestly a little disturbed you view deletion as such a dishonest act. Do you by chance teach Science Labs? I always remember we were never allowed to erase anything(in fact most professors required pen so that things could not be changed).. we had to cross out and initial any changes or mistakes in the lab notebooks.
Reply to #2)So does adding an item. Either way it is a subscription notification.
Reply to #1) Dinosaurs went extinct for a reason. All I'm saying is that if you can use the OLWLG(which is a requirement for this isn't it?) You can be technologically incompetent.
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corkysru wrote:
yaverot wrote:
corkysru wrote:
I have done a couple of these trades and I have always wondered... why is it such a bad thing to delete items from the list?
What is the logical/technical reasons behind that?
1. As others have already stated, because we want to be accommodating to those who use pre-OLWLG methods.
2. Editing means that the mod gets a subscription hit, and can double check for problems.
3. Editing indicates that you've changed your mind (or whatever) and we're accepting of that; deleting is trying to say "I'm not here and never was" indicating a higher level of dishonesty.
Reply to #3)Deleting does not mean that. Deleting means "cleaning things up". Now.. that can mean you were dishonest. Or it can just mean you made a mistake. I am honestly a little disturbed you view deletion as such a dishonest act. Do you by chance teach Science Labs? I always remember we were never allowed to erase anything(in fact most professors required pen so that things could not be changed).. we had to cross out and initial any changes or mistakes in the lab notebooks.
Reply to #2)So does adding an item. Either way it is a subscription notification.
Reply to #1) Dinosaurs went extinct for a reason. All I'm saying is that if you can use the OLWLG(which is a requirement for this isn't it?) You can be technologically incompetent.
#3: Editing means admitting a mistake and moving on. Deleting means damaging the public record to pretend the mistake never occurred. The first is honest, the send is dishonest. If it was "cleaning up" then old math trade geeklists would routinely be deleted as they became sufficiently old.

#1: The OLWLG doesn't work right if you use multiple browsers/computers (losing track of where you are) meaning that using the geeklist itself is superior for certain people, and they can handle the OLWLG one time at the end, when they've allocated a block of time to do so.
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corkysru wrote:
lgoldberg wrote:
Fauxreigner wrote:
corkysru wrote:
I have done a couple of these trades and I have always wondered... why is it such a bad thing to delete items from the list?
What is the logical/technical reasons behind that?
There are no technical ones, the OLWLG handles it fine.

Some people scan the geeklist and write down the item numbers they're interested in, and deleting items messes up their lists. Frankly, I don't understand how that's a preferable workflow, but how other people assemble their lists isn't my concern.
I used to do it that way too. But there is the risk of someone deleting something, so I quit doing it.

I keep my "want in trade" games updated in the Collection page. As I go through the Geeklist for the math trade, if I see some other title I'm interested, I just add it to my collection as "want in trade" and deal with it later in the OLWLG.

I can see the item numbers being essential for GCs and other Out of Scope items, though.
To be honest... Just book mark the item.
My bookmarks are a permanent set of useful information, developed over nearly two decades. I have no desire to clutter up my bookmarks with temporary junk, and then have to go back and delete them. I imagine there are others that feel the same way. In theory, it's a workable idea, though. If you don't mind managing a second copy of the same information as on the GL.

corkysru wrote:
Click on the name and then save it as a bookmark.
Actually you would right-click on the item number, and then bookmark that.

corkysru wrote:
To be completely honest I can't see how a person could participate in a math trade and NOT understand how to use bookmarks in their browsers.
No comment.
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yaverot wrote:
corkysru wrote:
yaverot wrote:
corkysru wrote:
I have done a couple of these trades and I have always wondered... why is it such a bad thing to delete items from the list?
What is the logical/technical reasons behind that?
1. As others have already stated, because we want to be accommodating to those who use pre-OLWLG methods.
2. Editing means that the mod gets a subscription hit, and can double check for problems.
3. Editing indicates that you've changed your mind (or whatever) and we're accepting of that; deleting is trying to say "I'm not here and never was" indicating a higher level of dishonesty.
Reply to #3)Deleting does not mean that. Deleting means "cleaning things up". Now.. that can mean you were dishonest. Or it can just mean you made a mistake. I am honestly a little disturbed you view deletion as such a dishonest act. Do you by chance teach Science Labs? I always remember we were never allowed to erase anything(in fact most professors required pen so that things could not be changed).. we had to cross out and initial any changes or mistakes in the lab notebooks.
Reply to #2)So does adding an item. Either way it is a subscription notification.
Reply to #1) Dinosaurs went extinct for a reason. All I'm saying is that if you can use the OLWLG(which is a requirement for this isn't it?) You can be technologically incompetent.
#3: Editing means admitting a mistake and moving on. Deleting means damaging the public record to pretend the mistake never occurred. The first is honest, the send is dishonest. If it was "cleaning up" then old math trade geeklists would routinely be deleted as they became sufficiently old.

#1: The OLWLG doesn't work right if you use multiple browsers/computers (losing track of where you are) meaning that using the geeklist itself is superior for certain people, and they can handle the OLWLG one time at the end, when they've allocated a block of time to do so.
#3 Old mathtrades are not mistakes that clutter things up. I have deleted some of my old geeklists that contributed nothing to the site.

#1 What would deleting an item before the geeklist gets locked by the organizer(after the end date has been reached) do if any person was going to go through the list all at once?
Oh wait... it WOULDN'T matter.
 
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lgoldberg wrote:
corkysru wrote:
lgoldberg wrote:
Fauxreigner wrote:
corkysru wrote:
I have done a couple of these trades and I have always wondered... why is it such a bad thing to delete items from the list?
What is the logical/technical reasons behind that?
There are no technical ones, the OLWLG handles it fine.

Some people scan the geeklist and write down the item numbers they're interested in, and deleting items messes up their lists. Frankly, I don't understand how that's a preferable workflow, but how other people assemble their lists isn't my concern.
I used to do it that way too. But there is the risk of someone deleting something, so I quit doing it.

I keep my "want in trade" games updated in the Collection page. As I go through the Geeklist for the math trade, if I see some other title I'm interested, I just add it to my collection as "want in trade" and deal with it later in the OLWLG.

I can see the item numbers being essential for GCs and other Out of Scope items, though.
To be honest... Just book mark the item.
My bookmarks are a permanent set of useful information, developed over nearly two decades. I have no desire to clutter up my bookmarks with temporary junk, and then have to go back and delete them. I imagine there are others that feel the same way. In theory, it's a workable idea, though. If you don't mind managing a second copy of the same information as on the GL.

My bookmarks are a constantly improving collection of useless links I have been developing for the past 12 years... And I frequently will be updating, adding and removing certain things from them. It's easy to have a folder you simply delete and recreate when you need it again.

lgoldberg wrote:

corkysru wrote:
Click on the name and then save it as a bookmark.
Actually you would right-click on the item number, and then bookmark that.
ACTUALLY you would have to right click, then select "open in new window(or tab depending on your preference)" and then bookmark the resulting new page.
Or just wheel click on links. I always forget some mice don't have that.
 
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Or we could just agree that not everyone will do things the way any given user does.
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jimmcmahon wrote:
Or we could just agree that not everyone will do things the way any given user does.
I just asked a question and was carrying on a discussion about reasons behind it.
 
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corkysru wrote:
yaverot wrote:
corkysru wrote:
yaverot wrote:
corkysru wrote:
I have done a couple of these trades and I have always wondered... why is it such a bad thing to delete items from the list?
What is the logical/technical reasons behind that?
1. As others have already stated, because we want to be accommodating to those who use pre-OLWLG methods.
2. Editing means that the mod gets a subscription hit, and can double check for problems.
3. Editing indicates that you've changed your mind (or whatever) and we're accepting of that; deleting is trying to say "I'm not here and never was" indicating a higher level of dishonesty.
Reply to #3)Deleting does not mean that. Deleting means "cleaning things up". Now.. that can mean you were dishonest. Or it can just mean you made a mistake. I am honestly a little disturbed you view deletion as such a dishonest act. Do you by chance teach Science Labs? I always remember we were never allowed to erase anything(in fact most professors required pen so that things could not be changed).. we had to cross out and initial any changes or mistakes in the lab notebooks.
Reply to #2)So does adding an item. Either way it is a subscription notification.
Reply to #1) Dinosaurs went extinct for a reason. All I'm saying is that if you can use the OLWLG(which is a requirement for this isn't it?) You can be technologically incompetent.
#3: Editing means admitting a mistake and moving on. Deleting means damaging the public record to pretend the mistake never occurred. The first is honest, the second is dishonest. If it was "cleaning up" then old math trade geeklists would routinely be deleted as they became sufficiently old.

#1: The OLWLG doesn't work right if you use multiple browsers/computers (losing track of where you are) meaning that using the geeklist itself is superior for certain people, and they can handle the OLWLG one time at the end, when they've allocated a block of time to do so.
#3 Old mathtrades are not mistakes that clutter things up. I have deleted some of my old geeklists that contributed nothing to the site.

#1 What would deleting an item before the geeklist gets locked by the organizer(after the end date has been reached) do if any person was going to go through the list all at once?
Oh wait... it WOULDN'T matter.
We won't get anywhere further on #3, so I'll avoid replying to that.

#1, you missed the point. People do work through the geeklist a little at a time, as things are posted. A page of 25 items here, a page of 25 items there, writing down the item numbers of interesting items. They can do this across multiple machines and browsers, because they're relying on the BGG subscriptions instead of OLWLG syncs. Then once the list is locked, they go to the OLWLG once when they have time, and enter only taking 10 to 20 minutes - its a no-thought data entry exercise. By deleting items, you screw up their numbers. Yes it doesn't make a difference if they wait until after the list is locked, but then they don't have enough time to go through the whole list. And long (3day+) wantlist submission periods are already a problem, I don't want to encourage longer ones.

Yes, I do use the OLWLG, it is better than having to do it all by hand.
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yaverot wrote:
corkysru wrote:
yaverot wrote:
corkysru wrote:
yaverot wrote:
corkysru wrote:
I have done a couple of these trades and I have always wondered... why is it such a bad thing to delete items from the list?
What is the logical/technical reasons behind that?
1. As others have already stated, because we want to be accommodating to those who use pre-OLWLG methods.
2. Editing means that the mod gets a subscription hit, and can double check for problems.
3. Editing indicates that you've changed your mind (or whatever) and we're accepting of that; deleting is trying to say "I'm not here and never was" indicating a higher level of dishonesty.
Reply to #3)Deleting does not mean that. Deleting means "cleaning things up". Now.. that can mean you were dishonest. Or it can just mean you made a mistake. I am honestly a little disturbed you view deletion as such a dishonest act. Do you by chance teach Science Labs? I always remember we were never allowed to erase anything(in fact most professors required pen so that things could not be changed).. we had to cross out and initial any changes or mistakes in the lab notebooks.
Reply to #2)So does adding an item. Either way it is a subscription notification.
Reply to #1) Dinosaurs went extinct for a reason. All I'm saying is that if you can use the OLWLG(which is a requirement for this isn't it?) You can be technologically incompetent.
#3: Editing means admitting a mistake and moving on. Deleting means damaging the public record to pretend the mistake never occurred. The first is honest, the second is dishonest. If it was "cleaning up" then old math trade geeklists would routinely be deleted as they became sufficiently old.

#1: The OLWLG doesn't work right if you use multiple browsers/computers (losing track of where you are) meaning that using the geeklist itself is superior for certain people, and they can handle the OLWLG one time at the end, when they've allocated a block of time to do so.
#3 Old mathtrades are not mistakes that clutter things up. I have deleted some of my old geeklists that contributed nothing to the site.

#1 What would deleting an item before the geeklist gets locked by the organizer(after the end date has been reached) do if any person was going to go through the list all at once?
Oh wait... it WOULDN'T matter.
We won't get anywhere further on #3, so I'll avoid replying to that.

#1, you missed the point. People do work through the geeklist a little at a time, as things are posted. A page of 25 items here, a page of 25 items there, writing down the item numbers of interesting items. They can do this across multiple machines and browsers, because they're relying on the BGG subscriptions instead of OLWLG syncs. Then once the list is locked, they go to the OLWLG once when they have time, and enter only taking 10 to 20 minutes - its a no-thought data entry exercise. By deleting items, you screw up their numbers. Yes it doesn't make a difference if they wait until after the list is locked, but then they don't have enough time to go through the whole list. And long (3day+) wantlist submission periods are already a problem, I don't want to encourage longer ones.

Yes, I do use the OLWLG, it is better than having to do it all by hand.
#3. Finally something we agree on!

#1. I actually prefer going through the list as it's put up. I save any numbers for unique entries(groups or whatever) and other than that I just add the game to my want list and let the OLWLG takes care of telling me what to pay attention too.
 
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Matt D
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Can we please move on from discussing the merits of deletion vs non-deletion? Or at least move the discussion to its own thread in the trades forum? This thread is designed for discussion about this math trade in the specific, and while this sort of debate may be healthy for the site in general, it does tend to "clog up" those in this trade subscribing to this list for announcements.

And of course, if you make it its own thread you invite discourse from the entire BGG community, not just those monitoring the discussion for this particular trade.

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-=::) Dante (::=-
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KEW GARDENS
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hestiansun wrote:
Can we please move on from discussing the merits of deletion vs non-deletion? Or at least move the discussion to its own thread in the trades forum? This thread is designed for discussion about this math trade in the specific, and while this sort of debate may be healthy for the site in general, it does tend to "clog up" those in this trade subscribing to this list for announcements.

And of course, if you make it its own thread you invite discourse from the entire BGG community, not just those monitoring the discussion for this particular trade.

I'll only ask one more question on the subject as it applies to this Math Trade then.

During the last MT the OLWLG was behaving buggy (probably due to its enormous size) and numerous times when using it to add items double and even triple entries were made.

Now in this case only, I did delete the entries mere moments after their posting. Quickly enough that there were either no additions after them, or at most a handful that had gone up simultaneously.

Obviously this was not with "dishonest" intentions. The one and only dupe I missed which had many pages added after was left up and I entered an empty want list for it.

Just want to check specifically with you Matt (not wanting to spur further debate unless you invite it) as to whether this would be an acceptable circumstance for deletion or if even in this case it is not to be done.
 
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