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Cry Havoc» Forums » Variants

Subject: one roll to rule them all rss

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pascal bons
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I am a samourai blade/cry havoc fan from a long time now... The coming of guiscard put me back into it. I get my cry havoc box from the attic and have a go with my 7 y.o. son with the first scenario : 5 VS 5 in the street...

For this game I have tested an old idea, with a D20... I keep the turn as it is, no zoc, you move, you fight, your opponent does the same...
For combat I use the d20 like this : To hit you must do equal or under the attack score of your man, you may gang up and add attack scores against the same defender. If you hit, the defender is stunned, unless your roll is better than the defender defense score, then you wounded him.
If the defender is already wounded, a stun result kills the defender.
For bows, it goes like this : you hit with a 10 or less and wound if your score is above the defense score of your target.

There's no retreat rules by now. But the idea is : if you are in a better ground than your opponent, you can retreat to avoid a hit. If it's a wound, you retreat but you are stun. If you are the attacker and you miss, you have to retreat if the defender is in a better ground. If you can't, you take a hit (stun or dead if you are already wounded).

Then, what about knights and high values (attack score of 30 for Sir Richard), you can split a score higher than 20, with 30, you can make an attack at 20 and then 10, or two attacks at 15... Also, if you gang up with 6 men against 1, you can make one big attack, adding all the scores, or you can split attacks as you want. You split scores according to attack values.
I think that knights can't gang up, their score is already above 20, so they make individual attacks, one after the other.

For long bows, crossbow, change the "to hit" score, I will say : 8/10/12 for bows, long bows, crossbows... You get a minus 2 if you shoot more than 25 hexes away, you can keep the minus 2 if the shooter is wounded.
You can't retreat when you are shoot at, an arrow hits the target or not.

I will have a try with peasants and knights pretty soon to see if the D20 way works with a mix of low and high values.
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Ruben Rigillo
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At a first glance just a question rises:
What if the defense value is higher of the attackers' or the to hit roll?
Impossible attack?
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Dan Buman
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You have an interesting idea there. I just wondered why you don't use the Guiscard rules for Cry Havoc? They are an evolution of the rules from all of the games in the series and are a good balance between realism and playability.

Ah yes Street Fight... one of my favorite all time scenarios!!!!! That's a great one for new/young players. I'm glad to see you introducing your son to such a wonderful game
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pascal bons
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@Dan : Well, I will play Guiscard rules with cry havoc fans... But I'm not sure the new set of rules is for beginners/initiation...
I don't like infiltration rules, but I like the differential table instead of the old odds table. Sure, I will give Guiscard a try.

I think that the d20 way is lighter, instinctive and table less. I like table less wargames. As my first try with d20 works, I think it is worth sharing.

@Ruben : when your opponent def is higher than your attack, you can only score a hit and stun him if he is not wounded. Imagine a peasant with a wood club beating a full armored knight...

I think that peasant scores vs knight scores, with the peasant not being able to hit most of the time and the knight sure to hit all the time, are a good representation of levee VS trained/seasoned men.
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Dan Buman
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@Pascal. I see what you are saying and that makes sense. I might suggest using the Guiscard rules with new/younger players and then leaving some of the more advanced rules out such as infiltration, advance after combat, and etc.. That way as they gain experience you can gradually add on rules and pretty soon they are playing full fledged Cry Havoc/Guiscard .

Regardless, the main thing is to have fun and it sounds like you are doing that! After all, that is what games are about
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pascal bons
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1932f20 wrote:
Regardless, the main thing is to have fun and it sounds like you are doing that! After all, that is what games are about :)
That's it... I've put my hands on magna carta (a french version of the rules, with debug and addition from vikings and crusades). 116 pages of rules, covering every aspects of the game.
I will use this set with grognards, not with my son and casual gamers.

I was thinking of the high attack scores, I will try this rule : every point above 20 in a single attack is deducted from the defense score. A 24 att knight VS a 12 def sergeant will attack with a 20 VS 8 (12-4), so the knight is sure to stun the sergeant and has more chance to wound him.
That rule applies only if your score is above 20. A dragon with an attack score of 75 for the head can attack 4 enemies, 3 with a score of 20, one with a score of 15, but he can also attack 3 enemies with a score of 25 and lower their def score by 5.
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pascal bons
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Ok, just having a siege game :
Board Game: Siege

The d20 works pretty well, come up with some ideas : too much stun and no retreat, so here is the new mechanic. It speeds up the game, no table, little calculation...

You roll a d20 equal or under your attack score :
-> if it's under your opponent def score, he must retreat (one hex, two if you are in + terrain). If your opponent can't retreat, flip his counter (stun or dead if previously wounded).
-> if the roll equals the def score, your opponent flip his counter (stun or dead if previously wounded)
-> if the roll is higher than the def score, your opponent is wounded (dead if previously wounded).

Shooting with the d20 : with a crossbow roll equal or under 12, longbow under 10, bow under 8. Substract 2 if the target is in light cover, 4 in hard cover, and 2 if your shooter is wounded.

Multi melee : add the attack score, if above 20, substract the excess from the def score (i.e. : a 24 att score VS a 12 def score is like a 20 VS 8). Yes a 20 can't fail and is more likely to wound the defender.
In my siege game, 2 knights were opposed with a wounded soldier with a def of 4, well in that case, it's an automatic kill !
You can engage an opponent with 2 men, then with a third adjacent man : for example, you have three knights against one opponent knight ; you engage with a decent 24 vs 12 (making it 20 vs 8) with two knights, you roll a 8, your opponent is stunned, with a def of 2, your third knight can now attack with a 12 vs 2, and surely finishing the work and wound the opponent.
Remenber, you choose a combat, resolve it, and choose another combat... You can engage the same opponent again, if some of your men are ready for a combat.

Attacker retreat : if you roll higher than your att score and are in a - terrain, you must retreat one hex.

Counterstrike : if your roll higher than your att score but lower than your opponent att score, you take a counterstrike and flip your counter : stun or dead if already wounded...

Next step : a scenario with knights and horses :)


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