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Subject: Regarding two ruling questions rss

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Hey so me and my friends play this a lot but we have some ruling questions.

1. If Ellen Tigh starts in the brig and ends her movement to meet an ally that can move her out of the brig (ex. Romo). Can Ellen Tigh still move to another ally's location AND use her movement ability to give 1 card to the player in the same location to draw 2?

2. Regarding the very first receives skill step before the first player has drawn his/her skills. Are you allowed to draw more than what your pool allows? For example: Cally can draw 1 politics but during the pre-game receives skills; can Cally draw 3 politics?


If someone could input their thoughts on this, that would be great.
 
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Applejack123 wrote:
Hey so me and my friends play this a lot but we have some ruling questions.

1. If Ellen Tigh starts in the brig and ends her movement to meet an ally that can move her out of the brig (ex. Romo). Can Ellen Tigh still move to another ally's location AND use her movement ability to give 1 card to the player in the same location to draw 2?

2. Regarding the very first receives skill step before the first player has drawn his/her skills. Are you allowed to draw more than what your pool allows? For example: Cally can draw 1 politics but during the pre-game receives skills; can Cally draw 3 politics?


If someone could input their thoughts on this, that would be great.
1. Allies are only encountered at the end of a player's movement step. Romo is automatically triggered if a player is in the brig (you can't avoid him) because even if you choose to not move (in the case of the brig you cannot move): those steps still occur.

If Romo allows you to move out of the brig to a Galactica location, you may then take an Action because your Movement step is over.

However, you do not get the benefit of encountering another Ally nor do you get to use Ellen's OPT ability because Ellen's movement step ended in the brig.

Ellen can only use her ability if she shares a location with a character at the end of her movement step.

2. You must stay within the restrictions of your character sheet. (Pg. 5, Core Rulebook: "Each player, except the starting player, draws a total of three Skill Cards from among any of the cards he can draw during his Receive Skills step.) (Emphasis added)

Cally, on her Receive Skills step can only draw 1 Politics on her Receive Skills step. Therefore, the same applies for the beginning of the game.

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Kwijiboe wrote:
Applejack123 wrote:
Hey so me and my friends play this a lot but we have some ruling questions.

1. If Ellen Tigh starts in the brig and ends her movement to meet an ally that can move her out of the brig (ex. Romo). Can Ellen Tigh still move to another ally's location AND use her movement ability to give 1 card to the player in the same location to draw 2?

2. Regarding the very first receives skill step before the first player has drawn his/her skills. Are you allowed to draw more than what your pool allows? For example: Cally can draw 1 politics but during the pre-game receives skills; can Cally draw 3 politics?


If someone could input their thoughts on this, that would be great.
1. Allies are only encountered at the end of a player's movement step. Romo is automatically triggered if a player is in the brig (you can't avoid him) because even if you choose to not move, and not take an action: those steps still occur.

If Romo allows you to move out of the brig to a Galactica location, you may then take an Action because your Movement step is over.

However, you do not get the benefit of encountering another Ally nor do you get to use Ellen's OPT ability because Ellen's movement step ended in the brig.

Ellen can only use her ability if she shares a location with a character at the end of her movement step.

2. You must stay within the restrictions of your character sheet. (Pg. 5, Core Rulebook: "Each player, except the starting player, draws a total of three Skill Cards from among any of the cards he can draw during his Receive Skills step.) (Emphasis added)

Cally, on her Receive Skills step can only draw 1 Politics on her Receive Skills step. Therefore, the same applies for the beginning of the game.

Regarding number 1. Thats what I thought as well but the argument is that the player can decide, at the end of their movement phase, the order in which they will meet an ally first or a player. So in this case, Ellen Tigh will decide to meet the ally first and then meet a player (even though Ellen Tigh can't meet a player first, this is still possible).
 
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Kwijiboe wrote:

1. Allies are only encountered at the end of a player's movement step. Romo is automatically triggered if a player is in the brig (you can't avoid him) because even if you choose to not move, and not take an action: those steps still occur.

If Romo allows you to move out of the brig to a Galactica location, you may then take an Action because your Movement step is over.

However, you do not get the benefit of encountering another Ally nor do you get to use Ellen's OPT ability because Ellen's movement step ended in the brig.

Ellen can only use her ability if she shares a location with a character at the end of her movement step.

To further elaborate on Carlos' point, Ellen's OPT can also be used if you encounter an ally on your space that sends you to sickbay or the brig as well. Since both happen after movement ends, you have the choice of which will occur first. So if you are sent to the Brig, I believe you can still use Adroit on the character that was in your space before you encountered the ally.
 
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wcboy18 wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:

1. Allies are only encountered at the end of a player's movement step. Romo is automatically triggered if a player is in the brig (you can't avoid him) because even if you choose to not move, and not take an action: those steps still occur.

If Romo allows you to move out of the brig to a Galactica location, you may then take an Action because your Movement step is over.

However, you do not get the benefit of encountering another Ally nor do you get to use Ellen's OPT ability because Ellen's movement step ended in the brig.

Ellen can only use her ability if she shares a location with a character at the end of her movement step.

To further elaborate on Carlos' point, Ellen's OPT can also be used if you encounter an ally on your space that sends you to sickbay or the brig as well. Since both happen after movement ends, you have the choice of which will occur first. So if you are sent to the Brig, I believe you can still use Adroit on the character that was in your space before you encountered the ally.
This leads to the argument in my second post. Do you think its allowed?
 
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Exodus Rulebook wrote:
At the end of a player’s Movement step, if his character is in the
same location as an ally token, he must encounter that token’s
corresponding Ally Card before proceeding to his Action phase
Ellen's Card:
Board Game: Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game – Pegasus Expansion

states "when you end your movement step, you may ...".

That seems suspiciously like a "tie": Two Conditions are true at the same moment, and this game always has "Current Player" choosing which order to resolve things that happen at the same moment.

I'd say, without reference to the FAQ's, that the Ellen player can choose the order, and thus could likely do both, meet the player, and then meet Romo (who, IIRC, always kicks the player he meets out of the brig (barring a disaster)).

editted to clarify.
 
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Applejack123 wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
Applejack123 wrote:
Hey so me and my friends play this a lot but we have some ruling questions.

1. If Ellen Tigh starts in the brig and ends her movement to meet an ally that can move her out of the brig (ex. Romo). Can Ellen Tigh still move to another ally's location AND use her movement ability to give 1 card to the player in the same location to draw 2?

2. Regarding the very first receives skill step before the first player has drawn his/her skills. Are you allowed to draw more than what your pool allows? For example: Cally can draw 1 politics but during the pre-game receives skills; can Cally draw 3 politics?


If someone could input their thoughts on this, that would be great.
1. Allies are only encountered at the end of a player's movement step. Romo is automatically triggered if a player is in the brig (you can't avoid him) because even if you choose to not move, and not take an action: those steps still occur.

If Romo allows you to move out of the brig to a Galactica location, you may then take an Action because your Movement step is over.

However, you do not get the benefit of encountering another Ally nor do you get to use Ellen's OPT ability because Ellen's movement step ended in the brig.

Ellen can only use her ability if she shares a location with a character at the end of her movement step.

2. You must stay within the restrictions of your character sheet. (Pg. 5, Core Rulebook: "Each player, except the starting player, draws a total of three Skill Cards from among any of the cards he can draw during his Receive Skills step.) (Emphasis added)

Cally, on her Receive Skills step can only draw 1 Politics on her Receive Skills step. Therefore, the same applies for the beginning of the game.

Regarding number 1. Thats what I thought as well but the argument is that the player can decide, at the end of their movement phase, the order in which they will meet an ally first or a player. So in this case, Ellen Tigh will decide to meet the ally first and then meet a player (even though Ellen Tigh can't meet a player first, this is still possible).
In your hypothetical, Ellen's OPT ability can only be used if there happened to be another Player in the brig with her because that is where her movement step ended. In that case only, Ellen is allowed to decide which to resolve first.

If Ellen moves out of the brig thanks to Romo, her movement step doesn't end again on the location she decides to move to. Therefore, she can't then encounter another Ally or use her OPT on the location she moves to.
 
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If you check the UFAQ the question has been asked and answered:
Quote:
Q: When playing with the Ionian Nebula (from Exodus), which happens first, Ellen Tigh's Politically Adroit ability or encountering an ally in her location?
A: (Tim Uren, FFG, to infocynic) Because both effects happen at the same time, the current player chooses the order.
Since Ellen chooses the order the effects occur, then yes, she could encounter an Ally in the Brig that moves her to another player and then use Politically Adroit.
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Kwijiboe wrote:
In your hypothetical, Ellen's OPT ability can only be used if there happened to be another Player in the brig with her because that is where her movement step ended. In that case only, Ellen is allowed to decide which to resolve first.

If Ellen moves out of the brig thanks to Romo, her movement step doesn't end again on the location she decides to move to. Therefore, she can't then encounter another Ally or use her OPT on the location she moves to.
You are thinking of the end of the movement step as atomic. Since multiple effects can happen during this time I think that (just like everything else in this game) you resolve each effect with the current conditions that are true at the time they resolve. Thus, if Ellen chooses to encounter the ally first and is moved as a result, when she resolves her OPT, she evaluates where she is at that time, not where she happened to be before another effect resolved.

So I'd allow her to encounter Romo, move somewhere else (if he is benevolent of course) and then be Adroit with someone in her new space, sure.
 
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GerryRailBaron wrote:
Exodus Rulebook wrote:
At the end of a player’s Movement step, if his character is in the
same location as an ally token, he must encounter that token’s
corresponding Ally Card before proceeding to his Action phase
Ellen's Card:
Board Game: Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game – Pegasus Expansion

states "when you end your movement step, you may ...".

That seems suspiciously like a "tie": Two Conditions are true at the same moment, and this game always has "Current Player" choosing which order to resolve things that happen at the same moment.

I'd say, without reference to the FAQ's, that the Ellen player can choose the order, and thus could likely do both, meet the player, and then meet Romo (who, IIRC, always kicks the player he meets out of the brig (barring a disaster)).

editted to clarify.
But can Ellen start her turn in the brig, meet Romo to move to a location with an ally and then use the OPT?
 
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TO clarify further:

if Ellen ends her movement STEP in the Brig with Romo and another Player, then she should be able to choose to be Adroit with that other character AND THEN meet Romo.

(At this point her movement step is ending, and she is meeting BOTH the character AND Romo literally at the same moment. Thus it's a tie, Current Player's choice to resolve order of resolution.)

However, were she to choose to meet Romo first, get moved to another location, and there meet a second player character, she should NOT be allowed to be adroit with that second character.

(Because by that point her Movement Step is OVER and she meets someone else. She did NOT meet that second character at the same moment she met Romo. Since her interaction with Romo is at the END of the Movement Step, then by the time she meets the 2nd player her Movement Step is over, and thus Adroit does NOT trigger. It's similar to moving during an XO, its not a Movement STEP, just a move).
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jsciv wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
In your hypothetical, Ellen's OPT ability can only be used if there happened to be another Player in the brig with her because that is where her movement step ended. In that case only, Ellen is allowed to decide which to resolve first.

If Ellen moves out of the brig thanks to Romo, her movement step doesn't end again on the location she decides to move to. Therefore, she can't then encounter another Ally or use her OPT on the location she moves to.
You are thinking of the end of the movement step as atomic. Since multiple effects can happen during this time I think that (just like everything else in this game) you resolve each effect with the current conditions that are true at the time they resolve. Thus, if Ellen chooses to encounter the ally first and is moved as a result, when she resolves her OPT, she evaluates where she is at that time, not where she happened to be before another effect resolved.

So I'd allow her to encounter Romo, move somewhere else (if he is benevolent of course) and then be Manipulative with someone in her new space, sure.
If that is your interpretation then she would also encounter the Ally.

I think it's pretty clear:

Movement step ends > Encounter Ally > Move out to Command where Cain and a Player are standing > Nothing happens

In order to use the OPT and to activate the Ally, you would need an extra movement step. However, Ellen's movement step ended in the Brig.
 
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Applejack123 wrote:

But can Ellen start her turn in the brig, meet Romo to move to a location with an ally and then use the OPT?
ninja As per my above post, "No": Those aren't at the same moment, the interaction with the ally (Romo) ENDED her Movement Step, moving her to the next player's location. Adroit is no longer eligible to be activated since her Movement Step ended BEFORE she encountered the second player.

 
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Alright well the unofficial FAQ says its allowed but you guys seem to agree with me that its not allowed. A grey area it seems.
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Applejack123 wrote:
Alright well the unofficial FAQ says its allowed but you guys seem to agree with me that its not allowed. A grey area it seems.
The unofficial FAQ does not address this question. There is an extra wrinkle here.

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Well true. Would be nice if we could get some more input.
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Somebody give me a TL;DR of what the specific question is. I'll give a ruling and submit to FFG if needed (the FFG guy is on vacation according to the last e-mail I got... maybe at GenCon).
 
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InfoCynic wrote:
Somebody give me a TL;DR of what the specific question is. I'll give a ruling and submit to FFG if needed (the FFG guy is on vacation according to the last e-mail I got... maybe at GenCon).
If Ellen Tigh starts her turn in the brig with Romo with good trauma. Can she meet Romo and move to a location with another player then use Adroit on that player?
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I'm not seeing why the ruling as in the UFAQ wouldn't apply. The fact that Romo moves her is irrelevant, she still gets to pick which order to do things, so if she picks Ally/Adroit, she gets to be Adroit with someone once she finishes processing the Ally.
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Applejack123 wrote:
Hey so me and my friends play this a lot but we have some ruling questions.

1. If Ellen Tigh starts in the brig and ends her movement to meet an ally that can move her out of the brig (ex. Romo). Can Ellen Tigh still move to another ally's location AND use her movement ability to give 1 card to the player in the same location to draw 2?
Even though you can usually tell by context, I'd ask that folks not interchange the terms "ally" and "character", as the former's only a thing found in IN.

I always thought it's one or the other, not "all at the same time".

If it's the latter, then people are saying Ellen's in the Brig, she PA... let's say Baltar in the Brig, encounters Romo, gets moved to Hangar Deck, and can also PA Kat there too.

Otherwise, thinking it's the former, she can only PA Kat or Baltar.

Hmm, given the wording, I'm inclined to think it's the latter... she would be able to PA both characters.

Applejack123 wrote:
2. Regarding the very first receives skill step before the first player has drawn his/her skills. Are you allowed to draw more than what your pool allows? For example: Cally can draw 1 politics but during the pre-game receives skills; can Cally draw 3 politics?
No. The "initial seed" has to be within your colors and numbers.

Later on when a crisis card instructs each player to draw 2 skill cards, since it's done one at a time in that case, you can go beyond the number (so Cally can draw 2 yellow/Politics), but still not beyond colors since it doesn't explicitly allow you to do so (so she couldn't draw red/Piloting)
 
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ackmondual wrote:


Hmm, given the wording, I'm inclined to think it's the latter... she would be able to PA both characters.

She can't PA twice, that would be having two ends to her Movement. She can only PA once, either before or after encountering an Ally.
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oriecat wrote:
I'm not seeing why the ruling as in the UFAQ wouldn't apply. The fact that Romo moves her is irrelevant, she still gets to pick which order to do things, so if she picks Ally/Adroit, she gets to be Adroit with someone once she finishes processing the Ally.
This is the Scenario:

Ellen is in the Brig with Romo (Ally).

Once Ellen's turn begins, Romo (Ally) triggers because Ellen's movement step ends in the brig. Romo is benevolent and allows Ellen to move from the Brig to a different location.

Ellen decides to move to Command, where Adama (Player) and Cain (Ally) are sitting.

These are the questions:

1. Can Ellen use her Adroit ability on Adama?
2. Will Ellen's movement from Romo (Ally) trigger Cain (Ally)?

These are the two stances:

+Ellen can use Adroit on Adama. Look at the UFAQ for the answer.

OR

+Ellen cannot use Adroit on Adama, her movement step ended in the Brig when Romo (Ally) was activated.

(No one seems to be arguing that the second Ally is activated, however, if Ellen is able to use Adroit: then, it follows that the second Ally is also activated. Since, both Adroit and Ally rules trigger when the Movement step ends)
 
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There are two things happening simultaneously at the "end" of the movement step, so the step does not end completely until both are resolved. If, in the course of resolving one effect Ellen moves to a different location, that does not prevent the other effect from potentially happening.

No one is arguing that you could encounter a second ally because you can only encounter a single ally in a turn.
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I don't believe they're happening simultaneously, concurrently, yes.
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oriecat wrote:
ackmondual wrote:


Hmm, given the wording, I'm inclined to think it's the latter... she would be able to PA both characters.

She can't PA twice, that would be having two ends to her Movement. She can only PA once, either before or after encountering an Ally.
I take it that she's only allowed to choose 1 character to PA anyways? For example, Cain and Kat are in the same location?
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