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Subject: Unofficial Manual Rewrite: Questions to answer and feedback request rss

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Dean Ray Johnson

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Progress report, 21 Feb 2015: Expansions book beta.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k7e15wykjqwh9ad/HoN_Unofficial_Exp...

Crossposted to the DevilPigGames forums:
http://www.devil-pig-games.com/en/forum/?action=viewtopic&t=....0

The story thus far:
* Thought about changing careers.
* Took a technical writing class.
* Needed something to practice on.
* Asked people about boardgame manuals that needed a rewrite.
* Rewrote a few manuals.
* Asked suggestions for the next rewrite. A BGGer nominated HoN.
* Workin' on it.

You can click the Dropbox link above for my first draft. I have a small list of questions and clarifications. I'll probably be out of town for a few days for work this week, but I hope to get started on the graphic layout pretty soon.

Feedback is great! Nitpicky feedback is even better! Don't worry too much about typos, though, since I'll proofread the whole thing at least one more time.
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Dean Ray Johnson

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Open Questions, last updated Dec 07 2014.

See Mezike's and lastele's replies for past questions.

40.1 Page 5 of the v1.2b manual says, "If you reach the scenario’s victory condition, or a player no longer has any order tokens to place on units, the game ends at the end of the current round. (It goes without saying that if a player no longer has any units or orders, he has lost the game!)"

I asked Axel, "6.3.1 A rule in the rulebook says that a team immediately loses if it has no units or order stars. The scenario The Road to Death says that the American player wins by moving heavy vehicles off of the map before the battle ends on Turn 7. If the Americans destroy all of the German units, but the Americans don't move any heavy vehicles off of the map, who wins?"

Axel replied, "The american player has all the remaining turns to exit a vehicle, otherwise, it's a draw."

The way that I read this (which I think is a good way to look at the scenarios), losing all of your units or order tokens means that you CANNOT WIN the battle, not necessarily that you LOSE the battle.

Here is how I currently plan to word this:

Quote:
Disarray
A team falls into disarray when it cannot give orders during the Activation Phase.

A team cannot give orders if it has no order tokens (or special order tokens), or if it has no surviving units. An autonomous unit can receive an order without an order token.

A team in disarray cannot win the battle. However, the battle may still end in a draw if the opponent does not meet its objectives.

Disarray Example
In The Road to Death (Scenario Book p.XXX), the Americans must move a heavy vehicle off the map before the end of Turn 7. If the Americans stop to fight on the way, they may destroy all of the German officers and send the Germans into disarray. But the Americans must still get a tank to the front lines before the end of Turn 7, or the battle ends in a draw!


40.2 The manual says that the team cannot win the battle if it has no order tokens. What if the team has an autonomous unit?

41.1 Page 7 of the v1.2b manual says, "During its move, a vehicle can rotate 45°. Vehicles can also rotate while stationary. It costs 1 movement point for each 45°."

Does this apply to one-square light vehicles, specifically the Willys .50 Cal and the Zundapp? Do these vehicles have to rotate a certain direction, or can I move these vehicles in any of the 8 directions?

42.1 How is a High Command recruitment tile different from a Field Command recruitment tile? Do both tiles share equipment tokens with units from other tiles?

42.2 Can a team have more than one Field Command tile? Can a team have more than one High Command tile?
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X. Nostradunwhich
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17.1: A Supressed marker modified movement under most circumstances.

It does not apply for the 'Driven Back' card, although that has an explicit exclusion so likely does not need to be covered in the rules.

It also does not apply to an infantry unit suppressed as part of an Opportunity fire attack aimed at said infantry unit. The infantry gets to complete its move with its full movement value. That is covered under the Suppressed rules.

It also does not affect Destruction or Heavy Vehicle damage rolls:

http://www.devil-pig-games.com/en/forum/?action=viewtopic&t=...

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Dean Ray Johnson

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Been a long past couple of days. I'll try to check this stuff out before the weekend or so. Thanks!
 
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Dean Ray Johnson

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I've updated the first reply with new questions and follow-ups. Thanks!

...Oh hey, I never noticed that file on the website with explanations of all of the special abilities. I'll add the flamethrower/engineer thing on the next draft.
 
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Heroes of Normandie is suppose to be a war game that; unlike Advanced Squad Leader, anyone can quickly learn and play. But from all the FAQs that is associated with HON, that is not the impression I get. Perhaps it could be that players aren't bothering to read the rules or the rules themselves are too ambiguous. Whatever the reason, a rule book needs to be as enjoyable to read and understand as a comic book (sad but true, most people I know would rather read a comic book than a novel).
Some of the suggestions for a good rule book are as follows...

Less text more images

Answers that are easily visible (you shouldn't have to use a whole page of text to express the answer, considering HON is designed to be a user friendly game)

A good great index

The rule book should not contain too many pages (some gamers are discouraged by large rules books such as Advanced Squad Leader)

Do not use acronyms (ie: ASL (Advanced Squad Leader).

Do not include answers that refer you to another page (I hate that). Have everything pertaining to a certain topic in the same place.

Don't use large words to explain an answer (I don't want to use my dictionary to learn the game)

Include a Summary Sheet: these are real handy


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Dean Ray Johnson

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grahamj wrote:
Heroes of Normandie is suppose to be a war game that; unlike Advanced Squad Leader, anyone can quickly learn and play. But from all the FAQs that is associated with HON, that is not the impression I get. Perhaps it could be that players aren't bothering to read the rules or the rules themselves are too ambiguous.


Part of writing a good rulebook means that you include all rules that may be necessary at some point, but you structure those rules for easy navigation. Say, the basic rules for a phase or action should appear in a list, but any side notes and precisions should be boxed off to the side, making it clear which part you need to know the first time that you read through.

If you'd like an example of my writing aesthetic, have a peek at my rewrite of the Myth manual. I mostly stuck to the formatting guidelines of the original manual, but I tried to clean things up a bit.

And yay, more answers~ I'll try and read them later tonight.
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Dean Ray Johnson

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I am procrastinating going to the gym, so I read through the new questions. I'm going to send Axel a message with all of my current questions, and then I'll be out of town again for a few days.

Quote:
3.1x Do terrain infantry defense bonuses affect assaults? Since you don't attack versus a defense value? What about other defense bonuses, like Additional Shielding equipment?
Yes, the defender gets the bonus to their dice roll.
Could a heavy vehicle use Additional Shielding against an assault? This token specifies a shot in the 1.2 rulebook.
No. From the rulebook: If the defending unit is a heavy vehicle it must use the combat bonus from the yellow secondary weapon. Additional Shielding adds to the vehicle defence value, not the weapon attack value that is used in an assault.


Which "defense" bonuses do you add to the defender's roll during an assault? Anything other than the infantry defense bonus from terrain?

Quote:
I was specifically thinking of custom scenarios, where the objectives only count for victory points, so an army may take control of an objective without immediately winning.
In a custom scenario, can one team take control of a common objective after the other team has taken control of it? If the Americans take control of the American objective, can the Germans do anything to force the Americans to lose control, like pushing American units away from the objective?
Anyone can control objectives, so one side could boot the other off 'their' objective. An objective is only controlled if there is a unit adjacent to it; in some scenarios you only have to hold it for a single supply phase, in others it has to be held at the end game (or is part of the end game trigger). Which one matters will depend on the type of free play scenario you are playing I guess.


Okay, let me be more specific:

30.1 I am playing a 400 pt. Custom Scenario. This scenario has a US primary objective and a German primary objective. On Turn 4, the Americans move a unit adjacent to the US primary objective and take control, but they do not have enough victory points to win the battle, so the game continues.
30.1.1 On Turn 5, there are no units adjacent to the US primary objective. Do the Americans lose control of it?
30.1.2 On Turn 6, the Americans retake control of the primary objective. On Turn 7, there is a German unit and an American unit adjacent to the US primary objective. Do the Americans lose control?

Quote:
I'm gonna ask for an official ruling here, since it may or may not make thematic sense to win a scenario without taking the objective.
Fair enough, but the logic of completely routing your enemy is that you could then freely take all the objectives without opposition so it does indeed make thematic sense!


In The Road to Death, the Americans are trying to push heavy vehicles to the front lines, as reinforcements for their allies. Let's say they destroy all of the German units in this scenario, but they fail to move a single heavy vehicle off the map before the scenario ends on Turn 7. I think this says that the American front lines are destroyed, because the Americans couldn't bring reinforcements in time. The Germans win a pyrrhic victory, losing their defensive troops but winning the larger battle.

Thematically, I think that someone could lose a battle even if they destroy all enemy units. But the rules do say that you auto-win if you destroy all units or order stars! So I'm going to keep this in my request list.

Quote:
11.3x Do grenades, rifle grenades, and panzerfaust (G/RG/PF) count as "shots?"
In which context?
It would help to clean up a lot of semantics if we could just say that they count as shots. For example, could these action cards be played against grenades (G/RG/PF)?
* It Bounced Right Off It: Play when a vehicle is eliminated as the result of a "shot."
* Hit the Dirt! Play when your opponent announces a "shot."
Well, they aren't really shots as you are activating equipment rather than your unit's standard weaponry. I would advise checking in with the designers before altering any of the semantics in the rules, some things may have been worded in a particular way for a reason!


I think it's not so much about how I word G/RG/PF as I how I word other things. For example, Triggerhappy says that you place a Suppressed token "before you fire." You said above that I could place a token when throwing a grenade. Is "firing" different from a "shot?"

I'm confused about the exact definition of which attacks can be modified by action cards and equipment. I think my vocabulary is something like:

Shot: A bullet. Includes regular firing attacks, as well as special abilities like Machine Gunner and Suppressive Fire. This does not include Grenades or Panzerfaust, which replace a shot.
Fire: A bullet or blast. Includes any shots, as well as Indirect Fire, Panzerfaust, Grenades, and other blast pattern or equipment attacks.
Attack: Any shot or blast, and assaults.

And that gives me a new action card question:

30.2 Some Artillery cards say, "An artillery positioned off the map fires on one of your opponent's vehicles." Does this count as a shot? Does this count as firing? Can I modify this attack with appropriate equipment tokens or action cards?

Quote:
I meant to ask how often it matters that it affects the combat bonus rather than the die roll. Is there anything that specifically worries about the combat bonus, other than Machine Gunner and Suppressive Fire?
Sorry, I don't quite grasp what you are asking for here! A list of everything that affects combat bonuses??


Having re-read the rules, I think that it mostly matters for Machine Gunner and Suppressive Fire. I'm don't see anything else that immediately cares about bonus-to-combat-bonus rather than bonus-to-rolls. If there are other major special abilities or options that care about this, then I would want to add a reminder about it with other notes about Suppressed markers.

Quote:
21.4 Units can retreat into an enemy Transport (from an assault). Could they move into an enemy Transport with a regular move order?
Where did you see this ruling? I must admit it is unfamiliar to me. Why would troops willing climb into an enemy transport? They can certainly enter one of their own transports this way though.

Page 18 of the v1.2 rules: "It is possible to lead an assault from a vehicle with the Transport special ability, as well as retreat in a vehicle if the Assault is lost, whether the unit is the attacker or defender."

I swear that I saw a FAQ that said this meant a unit could retreat into an enemy transport, but I can't find that ruling now. I must have read this half-awake at 1 in the morning... I'm going to leave an open question for now as to whether units can enter an enemy transport.

Quote:
21.11 Flamethrowers and the green-arrow-and-gear icon appear in army boxes, which are mentioned in the multiplayer rules. I'd like to add both of these abilities to the base rules, if anyone could copy the rules for these icons.
Look in the rules for the D-Day scenario pack, they are covered in there.


I think that my final version of the manual will only include rules from the base box. Then I'll create a separate PDF that has all of the expansion elements that I can find. That should reduce clutter for new players.
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Dean Ray Johnson

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Mezike wrote:

30.1.1 On Turn 5, there are no units adjacent to the US primary objective. Do the Americans lose control of it?
Yes, they lose control.
30.1.2 On Turn 6, the Americans retake control of the primary objective. On Turn 7, there is a German unit and an American unit adjacent to the US primary objective. Do the Americans lose control?
Yes, they lose control.

Wait a second. The manual mentions flipping an objective to its "controlled" side. But these objective tokens don't have a controlled side. There are only sides for neutral, American, or German.

I notice that the official HoN special abilities page lists a Charge ability (bugle icon), but I didn't see this on any units in Genesteal's bible...

I spent the last few days proofreading and separating expansion elements. Uploading the latest draft now. Axel sent me a message on the DPG forums saying that he's reading my notes~
 
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X. Nostradunwhich
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dreamshade wrote:
I notice that the official HoN special abilities page lists a Charge ability (bugle icon), but I didn't see this on any units in Genesteal's bible...

That would be Emil Preischkat from the Carentan set.

You can get a preview image of the board here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1538673930/shadows-over...

But in any case, it is in an expansion.
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Dean Ray Johnson

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Browsing responses in the Unofficial FAQ thread...

Quote:
Tarod: Zündapp: Is this a vehicle or a unit? It's obviously a vehicle, but the Counter size would indicate it is a (infantry) unit. Does it move like infantry? If not, how does it pivot?

xSuperioRx: I ain't got the game yet myself, but the Zündapp only takes one space right? In which case it moves like infantry. The movement described on page 5 in the rulebook mentions that "In order to move a vehicle occupying two spaces", this means that the rule describing vehicle movement only affects those that take up two spaces.

clem: RIGHT

The v1.2 manual says, "During its move, a vehicle can rotate 45°. Vehicles can also rotate while stationary. It costs 1 movement point for each 45°."

clem seems to be saying that this only applies to two-square vehicles? That one-square vehicles like Willys jeeps don't need to point in a certain direction in order to move in that direction? Or does this note only apply to the Zundapp since it's shaped differently from other vehicles?
 
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Dean Ray Johnson

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Spent much of my long weekend editing images and trying to match the original manual's formatting. Here's a preview page with rules for Setup.
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X. Nostradunwhich
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Looks really good.
 
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X. Nostradunwhich
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I am digging through the text more, and did find one issue under "Custom Armies"

Quote:
Field Command: An army of 200 army points or more may recruit one (and only one) field command tile. Any unit in the army may use the equipment on this tile.

This does not cover High Command, available at 500 points. That is not detailed anywhere else, but should be covered. Since this is the section for building custom armies, this would be the logical point

One more point: Command tiles ("Officer Recruitment Tiles") are not limited to sharing equipment AFAIK.

v1.2 Rulebook, p. 13 wrote:
A recruitment option put on an Officer Recruitment Tile allows the entire army to benefit from the option.

That includes Traits and of course Orders.
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X. Nostradunwhich
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I have been thinking about this a bit more and I have a proposal. Feel free to correct language or reject as required

Text from Alpha version wrote:
Field Command: An army of 200 army points or more may recruit one (and only one) field command tile. Any unit in the army may use the equipment on this tile.


My proposed change wrote:
Officer Recruitment Tile: Officers, such as a Field Command tile, show a restriction on the minimum army point total needed to recruit them (200+ in this case). An army of sufficient points may recruit one (and only one) Officer Recruitment Tile. Any unit in the army may use or benefit from a recruitment option on this tile.


Although, I am not sure where the limit of only 1 Officer Recruitment Tile is located, I am willing to bet that it exists if you added the text to the proposed rewrite
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Dean Ray Johnson

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Nostradunwhich wrote:
This does not cover High Command, available at 500 points.

I hadn't seen those. It's not in the base box, so I will add that to the expansion rules at the end.

Quote:
One more point: Command tiles ("Officer Recruitment Tiles") are not limited to sharing equipment AFAIK.

In my list of questions up there, Mezike says command tiles don't share Traits with the other tiles (but they do share Orders, which are specifically for the entire army).

Quote:
Although, I am not sure where the limit of only 1 Officer Recruitment Tile is located, I am willing to bet that it exists if you added the text to the proposed rewrite

I don't remember where I saw that off the top of my head, but I know that the rules for 3-4 Player games say that an alliance can only have one field command tile between the entire alliance.
 
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X. Nostradunwhich
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dreamshade wrote:
Nostradunwhich wrote:
This does not cover High Command, available at 500 points.

I hadn't seen those. It's not in the base box, so I will add that to the expansion rules at the end.

Your call

dreamshade wrote:
Nostradunwhich wrote:
One more point: Command tiles ("Officer Recruitment Tiles") are not limited to sharing equipment AFAIK.

In my list of questions up there, Mezike says command tiles don't share Traits with the other tiles (but they do share Orders, which are specifically for the entire army).

My bad. I forgot the different text on Page 6. That text limits the "army wide" bonus to equipment and orders. Mezike called it correctly.

dreamshade wrote:
Nostradunwhich wrote:
Although, I am not sure where the limit of only 1 Officer Recruitment Tile is located, I am willing to bet that it exists if you added the text to the proposed rewrite

I don't remember where I saw that off the top of my head, but I know that the rules for 3-4 Player games say that an alliance can only have one field command tile between the entire alliance.

That one would be worth a clarification, I think. Especially in light of High as well as Field command.
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Hello,

I post here the answers I gave to Dreamshade today :

So, I reply to all questions ask by Dreamshade in his email.

I will try to answer to all the other questions in order to make an official answer!

Quote:
1.5 Infantry can pass through an alley between buildings (two half-squares combine between the buildings). Can the infantry stop in an alley, or only pass through?

An infantry unit can move, stop, assault in an alley.

Quote:
1.8 Can heavy vehicles stop on a wreck or only pass through?

Yes, heavy vehicles can stop on a wreckof a light vehicle (See p.11, Structure)

Quote:
2.4 Does the term "Blocked LoS" only apply to obstacles, or does it also apply to views blocked by other units? (Semantics question, may matter when a special ability doesn't function with Blocked LoS.)

It also applies to views blocked by anything (obstacles with "X", units except if it there is an infantry and a vehicle in the battle, buildings, …)

Quote:
5.5x Can a unit inside a building fire a Howitzer attack out of the building?

Yes

Quote:
5.5.1x Can a unit inside a building fire an Indirect Fire attack out of the building if the unit has Clear LoS to the target?

No

Quote:
5.5.2x Can Gun units (infantry that occupy a little more than one square) be inside a building?

Yes

Quote:
6.2 Can vehicles take control of primary objectives or secondary objectives?

Yes, except if the scenario says no.

Quote:
6.3.1 A rule in the rulebook says that a team immediately loses if it has no units or order stars. The scenario The Road to Death says that the American player wins by moving heavy vehicles off of the map before the battle ends on Turn 7. If the Americans destroy all of the German units, but the Americans don't move any heavy vehicles off of the map, who wins?

The american player has all the remaining turns to exit a vehicle, otherwise, it's a draw.

Quote:
7.2 When I take control of a bonus tactics, do I immediately reveal it to the opponent? Can I hide the tactics until I use it?

You can keep it face-down

Quote:
9.5 Can a Personal Order unit receive a bluff token?

No, we must precise it in the next version of the rules, it must be a numbered order token

Quote:
9.6 Can I use two Artillery Spotter unit on a single dispersion roll, reducing the dispersion distance to zero?

Yes

Quote:
9.6.1 Can an Artillery Spotter reduce the dispersion of a Smoke bomb?

Yes again ;-)

Quote:
9.11 Transport and Fire on the Move: If a heavy weapon has Fire on the Move, and is transported in another vehicle, can it fire anytime when the Transport moves? Does the heavy weapon need an order token to fire on the Transport's move? Or does the heavy weapon only fire on its own order number (and it needs Fire on the Move to do that)?

The heavy weapon must wait its own order number and needs Fire on the Move to do that.

Quote:
10.4.1 The Recon Team has Scout 3 and Ambush. So I could:
* Deploy the unit 3 squares away from the deployment zone, with the visible side up.
* Deploy the unit inside the deployment zone, with the concealed side up.
Could I deploy the unit outside of the deployment zone, with the CONCEALED side up? Would I have to reveal the unit to the opponent first?

It's 2 separate abilities, so you CAN deploy at 3 spaces away, AND you can deploy on the ambushed side ^^ If your opponent deploys its troops and one of them can spot your unit, your unit is spotted ^^

Quote:
11.8 A Machine Gunner unit attacks a group of infantry. Could it use Ammo tokens and Ammo Belt tokens together on the same attack?

You can use Ammo and Ammo Belt to add bonuses in the same action.

Quote:
11.10 Can APC Shells tokens be used for any of a heavy vehicle's weapons? Or only the primary weapon?

APC shell => Grey attack bonus, sonly for heavy vehicle's weapons with a grey attack bonus different than "X"

Quote:
11.11 Demolition Charge: I don't have these tokens in the base set. How much Destruction damage to these tokens deal? Can vehicles place these tokens?

Destruction value of 4. Vehicles cannot place this token.

Quote:
11.12 Goliath: What's on the reverse side of these tokens?

Destruction value of 2, attack bonuses ( +3 inf, +2 LVehicle, +1 Hvehicle)

Quote:
11.12.1 When a Goliath explodes, does it roll an attack against a target, or does it automatically hit?

You roll an attack

Quote:
11.12.2 Can a Goliath explode during the Supply Phase?

No, because you must follow the Immutable Rule of the Supply phase

Quote:
11.12.3 Can a Goliath move through an enemy vehicle without exploding?

Yes

Quote:
11.12.4 Does the Goliath deal Destruction damage?

Yes

Quote:
14.2 "Immutable Rule of Special Abilities: You can't turn over a unit more than once per movement!" Could I flip the unit and move it, then play the Speed Setup card later in the turn? (Semantics question, should probably say it can't turn over more than once per turn.)

Yes, an unit can only flip once per turn, but it's the immutable rule of Special abilities, so the rule is only for Special abilities ^^So, cards can modify this rule

Quote:
15.1 "Allied players can show their Action cards to each other. They can exchange Action cards only during the Supply Phase." Does this mean that one player in the alliance can give their cards to another player? Or if one player discards during the Supply Phase, another player in the alliance could pick up those cards?

The one player in the alliance can give their cards to another player in the same alliance

Quote:
15.2 In a 2v1 battle, all three players try to play an action card at the same time. The 2-player alliance has initiative (Initiative Marker showing their side). Is the order of action:
* 1st ally on 2-player side -> 2nd ally on 2-player side -> Solo player?
* 1st ally on 2-player side -> Solo player -> 2nd ally on 2-player side?

1st ally on 2-player side -> Solo player -> 2nd ally on 2-player side

Quote:
21.1 If a heavy vehicle has a firing arc, does the arc apply to both of the vehicle's weapons? (Mezike believes it only applies to the primary weapon.)

If nothing says the contrary, to both of the vehicle's weapons. For example, in the next Gazette (issue #2), you will find the Crocodile (an Hobart's funny), and the arc of fire is only for the flamethrower (special ability) and it is specified in the rules.

Quote:
21.8 Sharpshooter increases the range of units with Limited Range. Does this increase the range of Grenades, Rifle Grenades, or Panzerfaust?

No, Sharpshooters character trait increases the range of the Limited Range special ability marked on the unit counter (as for Panzerschreck), not on an equipment (as for grenade).

Quote:
21.10.1 Go! Go! Go! When do you play this card? On the officer's activation? On any allied activation? On an opponent's activation?

After thinking, only during the activation of a unit belonging to the player who plays this Action card. But this unit doesn't need to be one of the target of this Action card.

Quote:
21.10.2 Precision: Play to reduce dispersion distance. Can this stack with an Artillery Spotter to reduce dispersion distance to zero?

Yes!

Quote:
21.10.3 Dynamic: Are there any restrictions to when you can play a card that says to "play during the activation phase?" Could you play these during an enemy's activation?

You can play it during an enemy's activation, as a counter!

Quote:
21.10.4 Geballte Ladung: Does this card use the same rules as Grenades? (Ignores obstacles, can throw into buildings and defensive positions, etc.?) Could I play Return to Sender on this?

The same mechanics as a grenade (the red triangle is missing on the card).

Quote:
21.10.5 Surprise: Can I assault through a window with this card? If the assault fails, could the attacker retreat back through the window?

Yes, you can assault a unit through a windows with this card, but you can't retreat except if you use another Surprise Action card.

Quote:
21.12 A Tricky token (concealed token that isn't actually a unit) comes into LoS of a concealed enemy unit. Does the Tricky token spot the concealed enemy?

No, each time 2 concealed units may spot each other, you must follow these rules :

– Tricky counters or assimilates (counters without units, or without associated unit) are spotted first,

– order of play : 1st ally (active -> 1st opponent -> 2nd ally -> 2nd opponent, etc.

Precision : if at any time there is only one side (ally or opponent) with units, the others tricky counters or assimilates

21.13 The Infiltration Kickstarter trait only fits on the Miller's Rangers tile. Can this trait's Concealed tokens be used by any unit in the army, or only by units on that recruitment tile? Does the trait's Scout 6 ability apply to the entire army?
Only units belonging to this recruitment tile.

Quote:
30.1 I am playing a 400 pt. Custom Scenario. This scenario has a US primary objective and a German primary objective. On Turn 4, the Americans move a unit adjacent to the US primary objective and take control, but they do not have enough victory points to win the battle, so the battle continues.

30.1.1 On Turn 5, there are no units adjacent to the US primary objective. Do the Americans lose control of it?

Yes, there is no american unit.

Quote:
30.1.2 On Turn 6, the Americans retake control of the primary objective. On Turn 7, there is a German unit and an American unit adjacent to the US primary objective. Do the Americans lose control?

Yes, there isn't only american unit, an opponent unit is present.

Quote:
30.2 Some Artillery cards say, "An artillery positioned off the map fires on one of your opponent's vehicles." Does this count as a shot? Does this count as firing? Can I modify this attack with appropriate equipment tokens or action cards?

Yes, it counts as a shot, it's firing, and yes, you can modify it with equipments (as Ammo when you use some air support Action card if you target an infantry unit).

Quote:
30.3 Can an infantry ever move into an enemy Transport?

No! It's considering as an assault! See p.7 "An infantry unit cannot pass through vehicles and enemy infantry"

Quote:
30.4 The action card It Bounced Right Off It protects a vehicle hit by a "shot." Could I use this card when the vehicle is hit by…

30.4.1 …Indirect Fire or Howitzer?

30.4.2 …a Grenade, Rifle Grenade, or Panzerfaust?

30.4.3 …Flamethrowers?

30.4.4 …an Artillery card or Airstrike card attack?

Yes, but this Action card prevent only damage! The Suppressed marker of Flamethrower is not canceled, as any other effects different of the damage itself.

Quote:
30.4.5 …assaults?

No

Quote:
30.5 The Triggerhappy trait allows you to place a Suppressed marker when a unit "fires" on a target. Can I place the marker before using…

30.5.1 …Indirect Fire or Howitzer?

30.5.2 …a Grenade, Rifle Grenade, or Panzerfaust?

30.5.3 …Flamethrowers?

30.5.4 …an Artillery card or Airstrike card attack?

Yes, the marker can be placed before or after the shot.

Quote:
30.5.5 …assaults?

No
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Dean Ray Johnson

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Nostradunwhich wrote:
dreamshade wrote:
Nostradunwhich wrote:
This does not cover High Command, available at 500 points.

I hadn't seen those. It's not in the base box, so I will add that to the expansion rules at the end.

Your call

dreamshade wrote:
Nostradunwhich wrote:
Although, I am not sure where the limit of only 1 Officer Recruitment Tile is located, I am willing to bet that it exists if you added the text to the proposed rewrite

I don't remember where I saw that off the top of my head, but I know that the rules for 3-4 Player games say that an alliance can only have one field command tile between the entire alliance.

That one would be worth a clarification, I think. Especially in light of High as well as Field command.


Oh ho ho, the manual says that an alliance can only have one HIGH COMMAND tile. I originally thought this was a typo that meant FIELD COMMAND tiles. Now that I look again, I don't see anything that restricts the number of FIELD COMMAND tiles in an army. I'll ask for a clarification on this.
 
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Posted a new draft. This should be 95% of the text for the base manual. I mostly now need to run around plugging in images. Also sent a few final questions to Axel. Still plan to rework the scenarios and expansion material when I get a chance.
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(Oops, edited wrong post.)
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Progress report, near completion with base rules:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8mkqu1m0329lzk/HoN_Unofficial_Man...

Stuff to do: fix all of the page numbers and page references, update the table of contents, proofread for typos, create a quick reference for the back page, try and cram the component list in somewhere. Otherwise, pretty close to done.

This would be the best point to read through and offer feedback. Please let me know if I'm missing anything.
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I read a couple of section so far. Good work! Some suggestions/typo fixes:

Page 2, P1: "Heroes of Normandie is a skirmish between American and German armies in World War II." Problem is with "skirmish" and that Commonwealth units (and I assume others in the future) may be used also.

I'd changes this to something like "A Heroes of Normandie scenario is a skirmish between allied and axis armies in World War II." Or whatever.


Page 3, Bonus Tactics section, box is has two opposing sentences that are confusing without being separated or additional text.

"Some scenarios don't use terrain overlays, objectives, or bonus tiles!. [However, if used,] place these elements as shown on the scenario's map.


Page 4, Units, figure, Special Abilities box

Assault: can fight [initiate] hand-to-hand combat


Page 4, Infantry

"Some infantry [units have] machine guns, bazookas, or other heavy weapons"


Page 4, Heavy Vehicle, figure, Front Defense box shows "7" but should show "9"

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Additional comments through page 11.

I apologize if my comments are off track as I only started playing this month. I'm not sure I completely understand the rules in a few areas given the nature of the original rule book.

Page 6, More About Order Tokens, Special Orders

- text says special order is action 0 occurring before any others. My understanding is special orders may be played at any time, e.g., before order 1, between 1 and 2, etc.


Page 6, Activation Phase, Step 3

- wording here implies order 1 of each side, then order 2 of each side. However, this is not the case if unit with an order yet to play is killed. The wording should instead indicate that the next highest order token is played. That is, player with initiative plays his next highest order token, then the other player does the same.


Page 7, Hedgerow, arrows and impassable icon

- text says "Blocks movement through intersections"
- old text said "it is impossible to pass between the two spaces connected by arrow symbols" implying you could pass through the two diagonal hedgerow spaces
- new text would be less open to interpretation if it clarified for certain one way or the other
- this is a case where I'm not sure what discussions have taken place to interpret/change the original rules


Page 8, Infantry Movement, First Figure

- the captions don't seem to apply to movement, e.g., "Infantry - one square", therefore they are slightly confusing at first.
- maybe the text should simple say something like "these units all occupy one space for all purposes including movement" or "slightly under- and over-sized units occupy one space for movement"


Page 8, ZoC

- This is another case where maybe my ignorance is the problem
- the new wording implies a unit cannot exit and then re-enter ZoC, but is still ambiguous
- the old wording was unambiguous (maybe wrong, I don't know) as it said "unit may freely enter or exit a ZoC but cannot move within it." Is this no longer true?


Page 8, Building Movement

- text should be edited for clarity, for example: "infantry [may] move from one square [at the end of the arrows point] to another [for a cost] as of one movement point."


Page 9, Movement Resolution Order, Step 1

- Why does the player have to declare the movement type before a multi-space movement? I would think the player could move a unit with 3 movement points a total of 2 spaces before declaring he is going to assault. That is, the player shouldn't need to indicate assault until one space away from the target (meaning step 1 is part of the loop of actions - step 6 would refer back to step 1 not step 2). Maybe I am missing some unstated nuance to the current rule set. I'd be grateful if you could clarify.


Page 10, Other Bonuses and Penalties, Long Range

- consider changing text for clarity, for example: "Reduce the attack roll by -2 against targets more than 7 squares away[, unless unit has range limited to 7 or less]."


Page 11, Firing Arc

- I know the MG nest arc particularly confused me and I decided it was a 90 degree arc. If you added some text clarifying the arc for the common units with arc of fire that would help new players a lot. For example, you could say "the MG Nest has a 90 degree arc of fire and the ??? unit has a 180 degree arc of fire".





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pisqueeter wrote:
I apologize if my comments are off track as I only started playing this month. I'm not sure I completely understand the rules in a few areas given the nature of the original rule book.

That's actually the best feedback to get. It's not as useful to get feedback on a rulebook from someone who's already memorized all of the rules~

I'll probably read these when I get off work tonight, thanks!
 
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