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Subject: Sample 2 player game rss

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Sean McCarthy
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Some discussion in another thread prompted me to play through a 2-player game and explain my decisions. I decided to pick what I thought was the hardest of 5 sets of starting obstacles, so it wouldn't be a complete pushover, but play the rest of the game out randomly from there. Here are the obstacle sets I had to choose from.

From gallery of SevenSpirits
(Apologies for the image quality.)

I chose Ork Bounty Hunter + Yak Muscle, which I believe is the hardest, given random roles and metatypes. It attacks for the most combined damage, and it has the most damage required to defeat of any of the sets, and all the colored damage is the same two colors, increasing the odds that you have a shortage of some color or other. (Sudden Fade / Wired Merc is a close second.)

I then randomly determined the race and primary role and secondary role for each of the two runners, and set the one with the greater hit points to go first. Runner A was an Ork Decker with Face aspirations. Runner B was a Human Street Samurai with a minor knack for magic. Shortly after setting up our two heroes, I realized that their main roles happened to match the colors required to defeat the two obstacles, so I decided to switch them both to their secondary roles. Now it was an Ork Face and a Human Mage. I set up the rest of the game and began.

From gallery of SevenSpirits
Black Market: Icon Grab, Guiding Spirit, Clairvoyance, Sniper Rifle, Doc Wagon Contract, Lightning Bolt.

Ork Hand: Street Smarts x3, Quick Shot, Mark.
Mage Hand: Street Smarts, Quick Shot, Mark, Mana.

Remember that since this is 2-player, we are skipping the first two crossfire event draws, and both players start with +1 nuyen.


I've played out the game and taken pictures already, but this is where I now pause the report and let people come up with their best plan.

I'll give 5 to the first person to guess my preliminary plan for how to kill both obstacles, and 20 if someone convinces me that their plan is better.
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Ettienne Fourie
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I'm taking a stab at this without a closer look at the cards from my game.

Turn 1:
Ork uses 3 Street Smarts on the Yak Muscle and takes 2 wounds. Buys an Icon Grab. Draws 3 cards.
Human discards (or discarded) Street Smarts and Mana due to Bounty Hunter Flipped ability. Finishes off Yak Muscle with Quick Shot and Mark. Takes no wounds and gains 3 Nuyen (2 to Ork). Draws 3 cards.

I'm unsure about the buy as I can't make out the costs, but I reckon Sniper Rifle (4?) and Clairvoyance (3?).

This should give everyone enough cards/damage to finish off the Bounty Hunter on the Human's next turn.

Turn 2:
Ork plays whatever 3 cards he drew and the Mark to take out the first two levels. Human assists with Clairvoyance, granting 1 damage (drawing and discarding probably won't make any difference), Ork plays Icon Grab for the additional two damage to take out the 3rd level. Finally, Quick Shot takes out the 4th level. Ork takes two wounds and draws 3 cards.

Human uses Sniper Rifle to take out the Bounty Hunter. Might also play a Mana card (if available) in order to be able to buy Lightning Bolt. Human gets 6 Nuyen, Ork 5 and they carry on from there.

I'm hoping I'm not messing up due to misremembering the exact sequence of turn events i.e. drawing cards before buying from the market.

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Sean McCarthy
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I like your thinking, but there are a couple of rules issues with your plan.

1) Both players are only drawing 2 cards each turn. I wonder if you misread the rule, which is "draw 2 if you have 3 or less in hand", as "draw until you have 3".

2) On the bright side, the Ork Bounty Hunter doesn't cause any discards, because the crossfire level is not yet 2 or higher.

To answer your question btw, Clairvoyance costs 2.
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Ah, my bad. I had it the other way around. Thought it was draw 3 if you have two or less cards in your hand modest

I should probably play a bit more often. This "puzzle" has given me the kick I needed to plan on getting it to the table soon.
 
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
Start of round

No crossfire.

Face starts plays his whole hand to kill Yak Muscle. It's important to elimnate the threat of 2-dmg as quickly as possible, and the other player has less life. Additionally, it's instant cash surge from turn one. He gets 3 Nuyen, so now has 5, Mage gets 2, has 4, so 6.

Face takes 2 dmg.

Face now drained his whole hand, which is never good, but I think it's justified in this case. Face draws two cards, and we know that these will be Street Smarts and Mana.

Face choices from Black Market:
- Icon Grab - this is remarkably good choice, especially for 2 player game, as it covers for the symbols you lack. But the problem with is, that it it requires Green cards, and Face only has one in his deck currently. No green cards in Black Market either.
- Doc Wagon - possibly, if they want to play the safer game. But there's no immediate need to buy it now and, unless some bad cycling happens, it will stay in Black Market for later buy.
- Rifle - we can afford that and 2 last levels of Ork Bounty Hunter are 4 dmg total, so it could be handy.
- Clairvoyance - we have Mage on board, so it's less tempting - and we might want to leave more blue cards for him, to trigger his spells easier. The assist is ok, but for now, we don't have any blue damage to deal. Pass.
- Guidining Spirit - same as above.
- Lightning Bolt - would be my first choice (especially know that Mana is in hand), but sadly, one nuyen short and Face did not play Mana this turn. Damn.

I would probably take Rifle, even if it generates one "blank" round (see later). If not, then Icon Grab.

Mage - great opening hand. We can safely apply 4 dmg to Ork Bounty Hunter, draw 2 Mana cards. Mage has 6 nuyen, so he can get Lightning Bolt, unless something nice (like Deathtouch) pops in in place of Rifle.

End of round

Face : 4HP / Street Smarts / Mana / Rifle / 1 Nuyen
Mage : 5HP / Mana / Mana / Lightning Bolt / 0 Nuyen

Ork Bounty Hunter - 2 first dmg cleared., Yak Muscle: killed.

Start of round

No Crossfire

Here Face faces (aha!) a dillema. He doesn't have cards to apply enough damage to clear 3 dmg in lvl3 of Ork Bounty Hunter. He cannot buy anything either. He takes 2 dmg (getting him to 2HP),
but draws 2 cards from reshuffled discard. More cards is good - we will be better prepared for next Scene. Additionally, there will be another perk with this route, see later.

Mage just applies Lightning Bolt, 2 more dmg level cleared, leaving last 2. Draws 2 more cards from reshuffled discard and probably won't be able to buy anything.

End of round

Face : 2HP / Street Smarts / Mana / Rifle / card / card / 1 Nuyen
Mage : 5HP / Mana / Mana / card / card / 0 Nuyen

Start of round

Crossfire card kicks in. Hopefully we're good :).

Here, Face has Ork Bounty Hunter all prepared for him. Uses Rifle and Ork dies. 6 Nuyen for face, totaling to 7, 5 for Mage. They both heal 1 level, and - *ka-ching*, crossfire card is discarded. Mage has a free turn without crossfire, and we're entering Scene 2 with Crossfire level 0.

Face will probably buy Doc Wagon to repair himself.
Mage - whatever nice is there in market.

Face : 3HP / Street Smarts / Mana / card / card / Doc Wagon / 2 Nuyen
Mage : 5HP / Mana / Mana / card / card / 5 Nuyen

Update: I disagree about the choice of Yak Muscle as hardest. Demolitions Expert and, particularly, Wired Merc are harder. They give more money, but they need more damage to be applied, meaning, it's not possible to wipe one totally in first turn. In general, obstacles with high level of damage at first (4, 5) are pain in the ass, as they drain the hand and for some characters starting with less cards, might be impenetrable for few rounds. As second card I would probably put Wired Merc or Light Combat Drone.
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Daniel Trott
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Not sure about your plan, but I'll give it a try:

1st round

Ork's Turn
- Uses 3x Street Smarts + 1x Quick Shot on Yak Muscle (down to last level)
- Draws two cards and buys Icon Grab

That means he will have a hand containing: 1x Icon Grab, 1x Street Smarts, 1x Mana, 1x Mark (this will come in handy for Icon Grab), possible damage: 5 due to playing Icon Grab and Mark together next turn
Nuyen: 0

Human's Turn
- Will play Mark on Yak Muscle to finish him off and his remaining hand on the first level of the Bounty Hunter
- Receives 3 Nuyen (7 Nuyen total) and Ork gains 2 Nuyen (2 Nuyen total)
- Draws two cards (only 3x Mana left in drawing deck) and buys Lightning Bolt (no problem here because he played one Mana)

The current hand of the human will be 2x Mana and 1x Lightning Bolt with a possible damage of 2x Mana + 2 consecutive level
Nuyen: 1

Obstacles left: Bounty Hunter with first level cleared.
Crossfire Event: None
Crossfire Event discard pile: 0 cards



2nd round

Ork's Turn
- Plays 1x Mark, 1x Street Smarts, 1x Mana and 1x Icon Grab
- Applying damage: 1 Decking for the second level of Bounty Hunter, 1 Skill, 1 Spell, 1 Decking (total 3) for the third level and due to playing Icon Grab plus another Decking card he applies one Weapon damage for the 4th level of Bounty Hunter
- Draws two cards and buys possibly Clairvoyance

Hand: at least Clairvoyance (great assist card for better chance of drawing a better card to replace a basic card) + 2 random cards
Nuyen: 0

Human's Turn
- Finishes the remaining two levels off of the Bounty Hunter with his Lightning Bolt (2 consecutive levels of damage)
- 6 Nuyen for the Human (7 Nuyen total) and 5 Nuyen for the Ork (5 Nuyen total)
- Draws two cards and could possibly buy either Sniper Rifle + Guiding Spirit (7 Nuyen total cost) or DocWagon Contract (total 5 Nuyen)
Note: All good cards, but personally I'd prefer Sniper Rifle + Guiding Spirit, because clearing two levels of damage with Sniper Rifle can come in handy on Obstacles which have high damage levels on their last two levels and Guiding Spirit to possibly draw Lightning Bolt again

Hand: 3x Mana, 1x Sniper Rifle, 1x Guiding Spirit + 2 random cards
Nuyen: 0 Nuyen (or 2 Nuyen if you bought DocWagon Contract)

Obstacles left: None
Crossfire Event: None
Crossfire Event discard pile: 0 cards

Edit note
I was too late :o
But I took another route than rattkin
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Richard Ham
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I thought this thread was so awesome, I made a little video about it:



Also, here's Jens and my opening gambit:

1) orc uses 3 street smarts to take out first level of yak muscle, takes 2 damage, draws street smarts & mana, and buys icon grab

2) human finishes yak muscle using quick shot & hacking, earning $3 (and orc gets $2). draws 2 mana, buys doc wagon and clairvoyance (or maybe not, depending on what else came out).

3) orc uses assist from doc wagon & clairvoyance to heal 1 and do 8 total damage to bounty hunter, takes 2 more damage, draws 2 & probably saves money unless another icon grab came out.

4) Human finishes bounty hunter and ends wave, with both runners getting to buy something.

Or something like that

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Daniel Trott
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rahdo wrote:
I thought this thread was so awesome, I made a little video about it:

1) orc uses 3 street smarts to take out first level of yak muscle, takes 2 damage, draws street smarts & mana, and buys icon grab

2) human finishes yak muscle using quick shot & hacking, earning $3 (and orc gets $2). draws 2 mana, buys doc wagon and clairvoyance (or maybe not, depending on what else came out).

3) orc uses assist from doc wagon & clairvoyance to heal 1 and do 8 total damage to bounty hunter, takes 2 more damage, draws 2 & probably saves money unless another icon grab came out.

4) Human finishes bounty hunter and ends wave, with both runners getting to buy something.

Or something like that

This seems legit to me, too
 
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Xunrel wrote:
Not sure about your plan, but I'll give it a try:

1st round

Ork's Turn
- Uses 3x Street Smarts + 1x Quick Shot on Yak Muscle (down to last level)
- Draws two cards and buys Icon Grab

That means he will have a hand containing: 1x Icon Grab, 1x Street Smarts, 1x Mana, 1x Mark (this will come in handy for Icon Grab), possible damage: 5 due to playing Icon Grab and Mark together next turn
Nuyen: 0

Human's Turn
- Will play Mark on Yak Muscle to finish him off and his remaining hand on the first level of the Bounty Hunter
- Receives 3 Nuyen (7 Nuyen total) and Ork gains 2 Nuyen (2 Nuyen total)
- Draws two cards (only 3x Mana left in drawing deck) and buys Lightning Bolt (no problem here because he played one Mana)

The current hand of the human will be 2x Mana and 1x Lightning Bolt with a possible damage of 2x Mana + 2 consecutive level
Nuyen: 1

Obstacles left: Bounty Hunter with first level cleared.
Crossfire Event: None
Crossfire Event discard pile: 0 cards



2nd round

Ork's Turn
- Plays 1x Mark, 1x Street Smarts, 1x Mana and 1x Icon Grab
- Applying damage: 1 Decking for the second level of Bounty Hunter, 1 Skill, 1 Spell, 1 Decking (total 3) for the third level and due to playing Icon Grab plus another Decking card he applies one Weapon damage for the 4th level of Bounty Hunter
- Draws two cards and buys possibly Clairvoyance

Hand: at least Clairvoyance (great assist card for better chance of drawing a better card to replace a basic card) + 2 random cards
Nuyen: 0

Human's Turn
- Finishes the remaining two levels off of the Bounty Hunter with his Lightning Bolt (2 consecutive levels of damage)
- 6 Nuyen for the Human (7 Nuyen total) and 5 Nuyen for the Ork (5 Nuyen total)
- Draws two cards and could possibly buy either Sniper Rifle + Guiding Spirit (7 Nuyen total cost) or DocWagon Contract (total 5 Nuyen)
Note: All good cards, but personally I'd prefer Sniper Rifle + Guiding Spirit, because clearing two levels of damage with Sniper Rifle can come in handy on Obstacles which have high damage levels on their last two levels and Guiding Spirit to possibly draw Lightning Bolt again

Hand: 3x Mana, 1x Sniper Rifle, 1x Guiding Spirit + 2 random cards
Nuyen: 0 Nuyen (or 2 Nuyen if you bought DocWagon Contract)

Obstacles left: None
Crossfire Event: None
Crossfire Event discard pile: 0 cards

Edit note
I was too late :o
But I took another route than rattkin
My initial instinct is to go with rattkin's play so as to play towards having the tightest decks for the end game, however it is very risky as you are Staggered if the Crossfire doesn't turn up your way. This is better, and while the Ork deck isn't the greatest, you get two of the "knock off two full levels" cards in one deck with Guiding Spirit to cycle through.

For sure though, if there is any good card I would not buy anything on the Ork's turn, preferring to get the benefit of +5 nuyen first. For the Ork you would highly value the recursive Green card for 3 nuyen, as it would allow you to maximize Icon Grab. But you probably pick up Doc Wagon.
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XDarkAngelX wrote:
My initial instinct is to go with rattkin's play so as to play towards having the tightest decks for the end game, however it is very risky as you are Staggered if the Crossfire doesn't turn up your way. This is better, and while the Ork deck isn't the greatest, you get two of the "knock off two full levels" cards in one deck with Guiding Spirit to cycle through.

For sure though, if there is any good card I would not buy anything on the Ork's turn, preferring to get the benefit of +5 nuyen first. For the Ork you would highly value the recursive Green card for 3 nuyen, as it would allow you to maximize Icon Grab. But you probably pick up Doc Wagon.
Yeah, you're probably right to save the +5 Nuyen on the Ork's turn to maximize the chance of getting more decking cards and get full use of the recently bought Icon Grab.
And by any chance of picking up Pair programming this will give the chance of using Lightning Bolt and/or Sniper Rifle once the Human has discarded them.
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Another thing I thought about was trying to let both obstacles live for the first round, so that each player would take 2 points of damage, basically so that i would get full use of the free heal with the scene reset (I hate throwing away a free heal on someone who hasn't been hurt) by focusing on taking out the bounty hunter first so that a larger influx of cash would have allowed both players to buy high value cards, but I couldn't quite find a way to make it work

Man I love this game!!!
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I don't own the game, but I finally ordered it yesterday.

I think I would have the Ork play everything except the mark and then take the yak muscle down to the last level. He'll take two damage, draw two cards and buy the icon grab.

Then the human will finish the muscle off with his mark and take out the first level of the bounty hunter. He'll get 3 nuyen, which is enough to let him buy lightning bolt and draw two cards.

Next turn the Ork will be able to get the next three levels off of the bounty hunter with his icon grab, mark and two other cards and the human will be able to finish it off with the lightning bolt. After the scene is complete and he heals, he'll be down three health, but he can still buy that doc wagon before the crossfire deck has a chance to force it to cycle out of the black market.
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8Darren wrote:
I don't own the game, but I finally ordered it yesterday.

I think I would have the Ork play everything except the mark and then take the yak muscle down to the last level. He'll take two damage, draw two cards and buy the icon grab.

Then the human will finish the muscle off with his mark and take out the first level of the bounty hunter. He'll get 3 nuyen, which is enough to let him buy lightning bolt and draw two cards.

Next turn the Ork will be able to get the next three levels off of the bounty hunter with his icon grab, mark and two other cards and the human will be able to finish it off with the lightning bolt. After the scene is complete and he heals, he'll be down three health, but he can still buy that doc wagon before the crossfire deck has a chance to force it to cycle out of the black market.
I went back and read the other posts. It looks like it was already covered.
 
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Thanks Rhado for the video. I would not have known about this thread with out it.

This is my favourite game from 2014 and I think this will be useful for my Shadowrun Crossfire addiction. Maybe I will successfully complete some runs!!
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Xunrel's is certainly the correct series of moves. I would only add that the Ork player would almost certainly want to purchase the Doc Wagon Contract during the scene-end buying round, and then use it immediately at the beginning of the next scene (in which the Ork Player takes the first turn). That player will after all be starting scene two with only 3 HP. Also, like Xunrel I had figured that the Ork player should purchase clairvoyance at the end of round 2; of course, if a second icon grab had been turned up in the black market since the end of round 1, then that would make for a far better purchase than clairvoyance.
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Elliotmi wrote:
Xunrel's is certainly the correct series of moves. I would only add that the Ork player would almost certainly want to purchase the Doc Wagon Contract during the scene-end buying round, and then use it immediately at the beginning of the next scene (in which the Ork Player takes the first turn). That player will after all be starting scene two with only 3 HP. Also, like Xunrel I had figured that the Ork player should purchase clairvoyance at the end of round 2; of course, if a second icon grab had been turned up in the black market since the end of round 1, then that would make for a far better purchase than clairvoyance.
I am wary of clogging a deck with 2 cost cards. To be fair, Icon Grab is the best of them, and Clairvoyance the second best, so that might be okay. Doc Wagon is almost certainly the buy with the extra 5 nuyens, so I guess it's not a bad idea.
 
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I believe my version prepares you better for the next scene. I basically planned till middle of Scene 2. Remember that Icon Grab and Clairvoyance are still there to buy. The key is to buy it in appropriate time and make the best use of it, because the time is super tight for 2p. Icon Grab is suboptimal here, imho. But, I guess we'll see how it goes :) - I'm genuinely curious. This is fun!
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All right, let me summarize my thoughts about this setup. We have a lot of conflicting priorities.

* Killing both obstacles by turn 6 (round 3) is good because it's the last chance to get zero crossfire level for the second scene.

* Killing both obstacles by turn 4 (round 2) is good because it's the last chance to guarantee no crossfire event interference with the plan. But it is something of a sacrifice compared to finishing by turn 6, because both result in the same crossfire level, but this one "wastes" a chance to bury one of the crossfire events.

* Killing each obstacle before it attacks a second time is quite good, as they both hit for 2. It means starting the second scene with 5 HP instead of 3 HP in the case of the Ork, or with 4 HP instead of 2 HP in the case of the Human.

* Killing each obstacle before it attacks the first time is worth 1 HP on a high-health character - not much, but it's got some value.

* Killing an obstacle quickly means getting its nuyen reward quickly, which means buying cards sooner. In particular, with an Ork and a Human, any cards bought on turn 1 (and played turn 2) are going to get shuffled back into the deck at the end of turn 2, so that is extra valuable.

I observe that we have all our green and black basics in hand. This is both good and bad - good because we have access to them and know where they are, but bad because if we want to use our starting hands for raw damage, we will lose those important colors and won't draw them for the second turn.

Now let's look at some basic options: kill the Ork Bounty Hunter ASAP, and kill the Yak Muscle ASAP.

Kill the Ork Bounty Hunter ASAP

Killing the Ork's obstacle turn 3 and the Human's on turn 4 is pretty efficient in terms of the damage our runners take, and fulfills a lot of our goals, so let's look at this first. We have a total of 9 damage in hand, and the Ork draws 2 more at end of turn. So as long as the Human is able to apply all of his cards, we have enough raw power if we can buy one more damage. So one possibility: Ork plays 4 cards holding Quick Shot, and buys Icon Grab. Human plays full hand. Ork plays full hand - the Ork Bounty Hunter is dead! An improvement of this is for the Ork to hold onto her initial Mark until her second turn - then you end up saving a card because Icon Grab is turned on (and it makes up for the fact that the Human couldn't reach the first black icon on the damage track). However, both of these plans now run into a snag: the Yak Muscle is still alive, and all we have left to kill it is two Mana cards from the Human, plus bought cards. The only visible way to do this is with the Human buying the Sniper Rifle to do the green and black symbols, and the Ork buying an assist (Clairvoyance or Doc Wagon) to help with the 3. This is pretty inefficient and it might hurt in scene 2 to have spent so much money to do 3 damage to the Yak Muscle. Still, I think it's a viable plan.

An alternate continuation would be to let the Yak Muscle live to hit a second time, but at this point I no longer like this plan because it leaves the Human at 1 HP, allows a crossfire event to show up and potentially ruin your chances to finish that round, and has the wounded human lead off scene 2.

Kill the Yak Muscle ASAP

Our Ork is of course perfectly capable of just offing the Yak Muscle. Normally this would be fantastic! However, the current black market does not work well at all with this plan. Our Ork will earn some money, but will have nothing she wants to buy. The Guiding Spirit and Lightning Bolt are not options, the Doc Wagon does no damage, the Clairvoyance, while providing flexibility, has a very low power level, the Sniper Rifle won't even be playable next turn, and the Icon Grab will not have a green card to pair with. So then why are we doing this? The Icon Grab is really the most efficient buy here for the Ork, in my opinion, but it only costs 2 nuyen and requires her to hold onto the Mark. So we alter the plan slightly and play only the other four cards against the Yak Muscle, planning for the Human to finish it off. We take 2 damage, draw Street Smarts and Mana (the only cards left in our deck), and buy Icon Grab.

Since this is now describing what I actually did, here's a picture.
From gallery of SevenSpirits

You can barely see that the new card in the market is a second Doc Wagon Contract - unfortunately not something we care about. We wanted to reveal a simple card that does damage.

The Human can now play Mark to finish off the Yak Muscle, which is good because it earns nuyen and prevents the damage. And he can play his other 3 cards against the Ork Bounty Hunter, which will allow the Ork to play her whole hand against it. Alternately, he could hold onto his three cards for next turn - a play that is better than the one I made, but not the best one. I will walk you through my play first, and discuss the variations afterward. So OK, play the whole hand, and buy Sniper Rifle, which will be perfect to finish off the Bounty Hunter. The Sniper Rifle is a really powerful and efficient card, with a drawback of being conditional. In this case, we have a great place to put the Sniper Rifle's damage, so it's a very efficient buy for the nuyen. We can finish out the scene on the Human's turn, so the human buys it.

From gallery of SevenSpirits

The new card in the market is a second Lightning Bolt. Again, not what we were looking for. The market is now full of cards that we can't effectively use for one reason or another.

On the Ork's turn two, her choice is clear: she has to get through the first black symbol if we are to kill the Ork Bounty Hunter, so she plays her whole hand, drawing back Icon Grab and Quick Shot. There is now an argument to made for buying Clairvoyance with her 2 nuyen, and that is that she will gain 5 nuyen more from the Bounty Hunter's death and won't be able to spend it all in the one buy between scenes. However, I still don't want to buy this card without a clear purpose for it, since it's fairly weak in the abstract (though incredibly helpful to have in the market for when you need it). I am still concerned about being able to dish out enough raw damage for the nuyen I have.

The Human now plays, and finishes off the Bounty Hunter with the Sniper rifle. This is the moment that is matters that our black market is so restrictive: three of the six cards require you to play a spell that turn to buy them, and the other three cards only do one damage apiece. I hate to do this, but the Human is pretty much forced to play a mana for no damage so he can buy Lightning Bolt and Guiding Spirit. It's still good, mind you, but it's a bit wasteful. At this point I look back and there are two options that would have turned out better, but first let's finish up the round.

From gallery of SevenSpirits

Backdoor and Hero move have appeared in the market to replace the two spells, and Backdoor is great news. It means that the Ork can buy a card that does some good damage and pairs with the drawn Icon Grab, instead of a Doc Wagon contract. It's very unlikely that the healing from Doc Wagon will be better than just being able to dish out 6 damage with good color flexibility, since even the wounded Ork will have 3 health. As a last note, as you can see, the Human drew two Manas. We seem to be pretty well set up for scene 2, although things can always go downhill fast.

Now, how about those better options? As I pointed out, the Human could have held onto his three non-Mark cards on turn 1. Then, The Ork applies 4 damage (3 and green) on her second turn, and the Human finishes off the Bounty Hunter with four basics (3 and black) and Sniper Rifle. Net result? The Ork has one more card in hand. We earned that extra card because the Human didn't have to waste a mana just to be able to buy Lightning Bolt and Guiding Spirit. Even if we weren't going to have to waste a mana later, it would have been better to have the extra held basic card in the Ork's hand instead of in the Human's hand, because the Ork is leading off the next scene. So this was just purely suboptimal play from me. (What can I say, there's only one of me and I'm distracted trying to take pictures of every step. whistle)

The second option that's clearly better in my view is Xunrel's plan, which you can find in the posts above. Xunrel started off the same, but had the Human buy Lightning Bolt instead of Sniper Rifle first. Strange, huh? I just described a plan that was able to kill the Bounty Hunter with a 4-cost card and then end the scene with the 6-cost card in hand, and here I am talking up a plan that spends the 6-cost card and ends with the 4-cost card in hand. What gives? You will see. In Xunrel's plan, the Human plays out his hand on his first turn as I did, doing 3 damage to the Bounty Hunter. The Ork takes it down to the last two levels, and Lightning Bolt finishes. Xunrel's Human then draw two cards, putting him at four basics, and can buy Guiding Spirit plus whatever the best option is now there for 4 nuyen, let's say Sniper Rifle. Here's the key point: there are only 4 cards left in the Human's deck - 3 basics and the Lightning Bolt. So on the Human's next turn, he can play Sniper Rifle, then play Guiding Spirit pitching all four basics and drawing into Lightning Bolt 100% of the time. This only works because the purchasing order of Lightning Bolt first allows him to hold the fourth basic. Compared to my improved plan above, the Ork does have one fewer basic, but in this specific case of being able to Guiding Spirit for your whole deck because of it, I think it's better to have the extra basic in the second seat. So 20 to Xunrel! (I do think he got a little lucky here that I noticed he was guaranteed to draw back Lightning Bolt, when he only advertised a "possible" draw of it. )

Before we move on, I would also like to discuss a plan that intentionally delays until turn 5, such as rattkin's. This strategy does have some serious merit: as long as the crossfire event from round 3 doesn't throw a wrench in the works, you come out ahead, because you get to draw two more cards, have the Human start the second scene, and have one free turn without a crossfire event. This is often a good strategy to take in 2 player, and I think it works especially well when you have some slower characters like a troll + dwarf, for example. In this situation, I do think there are several factors pointing against it. First, we have an Ork and a Human, so we have enough starting firepower to take down these two obstacles quickly. Second, both of them hit for 2 - so leaving one up for three turns is sketchier than normal. It's true that the plan doesn't involve letting the Bounty Hunter hit a third time, but the possibility of it is why the crossfire draw is riskier than normal here. For example, if A Little Help comes up, the Ork is getting staggered and we are in serious trouble. The third drawback of rattkin's plan is it involves spending a lot of power. In it, we enter the second round with Lightning Bolt spent and no Guiding Spirit for the Human... and those cards are the only real damage-dealers currently visible in the market. So while I think that this plan has merit too, I prefer to take the more conservative one and end scene one before the first crossfire draw, because I think we're going to win and I don't want to take that risk.
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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The problem with your play, rattkin, is autolose on a terrible Crossfire card. That's not a position I want to be in at the end of the first scene. More like second or third.

Icon Grab this early isn't great but having both Sniper and Lightning Bolt in the same deck as Guiding Spirit is clutch. The Ork already did its job, Ork decks are there to get you through the beginning ASAP and are terrible the longer the game goes on. A Clairvoyance assist can even help cycle to those cards even more often. We also get the single card reshuffle right on that deck right before scene 2, so we might be lucky and pull Sniper, Lightning Bolt or Guiding Spirit on that draw or on the assist.
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After healing up and buying Backdoor, a Coordinated Attack shows up in the market. Excellent!

But now some obstacles show up. Not so excellent:

From gallery of SevenSpirits

That's Scrybot Tracer and Jaguar Shifter facing the Ork, and Deckhead facing the Human.

And the crossfire event is:

From gallery of SevenSpirits


No problem there - we aren't holding assists anyway. But it looks like the Ork is going down. What do we do?

The Ork is holding Quick Shot, Icon Grab, Backdoor. The Human is holding 3x Mana, Lightning Bolt, Guiding Spirit, and has a deck consisting of one of each basic plus Sniper Rifle.

Feel free to continue discussing the first scene - it's probably going to be remain the most interesting and complex single decision point of the game, because of how far ahead you can plan. But we will also move on. This is going to be harder to compare, because plans spiral off into contingencies pretty quickly now, but I am curious to hear your thoughts and still plan to hand out 5 and perhaps 20 where I think they are earned.
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It's better to autolose on scene 1 than enter later ones and find out you had suboptimal decks. I would much rather risk staggered and play again than play th other way around. Thanks for the summary, though, Sean. This is great.
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rattkin wrote:
It's better to autolose on scene 1 than enter later ones and find out you had suboptimal decks. I would much rather risk staggered and play again than play th other way around. Thanks for the summary, though, Sean. This is great.
One not even that suboptimal deck (Icon Grab is the best thing 2 nuyens can buy, we now just have to prioritize getting the 3 drop green and Backdoor, which are both awesome cards in their own right) and a powerful engine ready to go in the other.
 
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First, thanks for doing this - when I get some time, I plan to actually lay out my cards to match your setup, and work through it on my own. I did want to ask you about this bit:

SevenSpirits wrote:

* Killing both obstacles by turn 4 (round 2) is good because it's the last chance to guarantee no crossfire event interference with the plan. But it is something of a sacrifice compared to finishing by turn 6, because both result in the same crossfire level, but this one "wastes" a chance to bury one of the crossfire events.
I remember hearing this same sentiment expressed in the 2p video, and it still isn't 'clicking' with me. Why do you consider it a "wasted" chance to bury a crossfire event, rather than making more progress before the crossfire even occurs? I can envision very specific instances where it might make sense to wait for the next turn and bury the crossfire card (ie, trying to cycle your deck), but I would think it would be vastly preferable, in most situations, to prevent an extra round worth of damage, and simply move on faster before drawing the crossroads card, rather than taking the damage and getting a round with a buried crossroads. Could you elaborate on what I'm missing here?
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eviljelloman wrote:
First, thanks for doing this - when I get some time, I plan to actually lay out my cards to match your setup, and work through it on my own. I did want to ask you about this bit:

SevenSpirits wrote:

* Killing both obstacles by turn 4 (round 2) is good because it's the last chance to guarantee no crossfire event interference with the plan. But it is something of a sacrifice compared to finishing by turn 6, because both result in the same crossfire level, but this one "wastes" a chance to bury one of the crossfire events.
I remember hearing this same sentiment expressed in the 2p video, and it still isn't 'clicking' with me. Why do you consider it a "wasted" chance to bury a crossfire event, rather than making more progress before the crossfire even occurs? I can envision very specific instances where it might make sense to wait for the next turn and bury the crossfire card (ie, trying to cycle your deck), but I would think it would be vastly preferable, in most situations, to prevent an extra round worth of damage, and simply move on faster before drawing the crossroads card, rather than taking the damage and getting a round with a buried crossroads. Could you elaborate on what I'm missing here?
Having one extra turn is basically trading damage for card draws. 2 damage now might save you more than 2 down the road, and drawing one extra Crossfire card now that will get buried halfway through the round means probably drawing one less later also, due to the extra cards drawn.

That's why that was my instinctual play, until I saw what I feel is a better play in Xunrel's.

You do end up being forced to buy Icon Grab early on the Ork instead of splitting Sniper and Lightning Bolt. That's a real cost. I just really like being able to cycle to get both my "deal 2 levels" in the same deck so I feel that cost is slightly offset. And I dislike auto-losing this early.
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rahdo wrote:
SevenSpirits wrote:
Feel free to continue discussing the first scene
Sean (or anyone, really) I'm curious, could you explain a bit more why you valued getting a sniper rifle into the human deck over the Doc + Clairvoyance, so much so that you were willing to take 2 more damage on the orc runner, and one turn longer to start scene 2 (rather than finishing sooner and having the new obstacles spawn while there was no crossfire card in effect at all). Is clairvoyance really that bad? We've always found it fairly awesome in 2p to help guarantee the colors we need...

Also, in other news, I just filmed another runthrough of your playthrough... should be up in an hour or so
I'm not understanding the comparison - was there any way to end the scene in three turns? I didn't see one posted, at least.

Also, I don't buy the comparison of Sniper Rifle vs Doc Wagon + Clairvoyance. I think the right comparison is Sniper rifle + Guiding Spirit, a combination which also costs 7 nuyen.

I like having Clairvoyance and Doc Wagon available, but I'd prefer to buy them "just in time", because in terms of converting nuyen to raw firepower they aren't very efficient.
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