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The Lord of the Ice Garden» Forums » General

Subject: Second edition from RedImp coming soon! rss

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Isaac Hayward
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Hello all,

This is Isaac Hayward from RedImp Publishing.

I have recently been brought on to help publish the second edition of "Lord of the Ice Garden" in English, as well as to correspond with everyone here on BBG about any questions or concerns.

Please fell free to contact me at CustomerService@redimp.pl with any questions, or just post them here on Lord of the Ice Garden BGG forums and I will answer them as soon as I can.

Everyone have an awesome day and please look forward to more information about the second edition release of this amazing game coming soon.

Regards,

Isaac Hayward. (^_^)
RedImp Publishing.
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Daniel Honig
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Question: does it look like there will be any rules changes in the second edition? Or just updated rulebook/clarifications/etc.
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René Schep
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The only thing I think they might add is that you can't end the game on Death snow if you couldn't win.
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Isaac Hayward
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Andarel wrote:
Question: does it look like there will be any rules changes in the second edition? Or just updated rulebook/clarifications/etc.


Rene is correct. The only significant rule change will be that you can no longer end of the game by Dead Snow unless it will cause you to win. This change is being made to prevent kingmaking. Any other changes will be slight, if any at all. The main purpose of the update is to stream-line learning and add answers to all of the questions that arose during the first edition.
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Peter Chinkin
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Jadehope wrote:
Andarel wrote:
Question: does it look like there will be any rules changes in the second edition? Or just updated rulebook/clarifications/etc.


Rene is correct. The only significant rule change will be that you can no longer end of the game by Dead Snow unless it will cause you to win. This change is being made to prevent kingmaking. Any other changes will be slight, if any at all. The main purpose of the update is to stream-line learning and add answers to all of the questions that arose during the first edition.


This is a terrible rule change! I have personally been the victim of such kingmaking via the Dead Snow track but it seems ridiculous to me that players should be controlled in this way.

It is down to the dynamics of a gaming group and an individual's choice as to whether such action is acceptable and appropriate. Some groups might have issues with kingmaking and certain individuals might use it in a vindictive way but surely it is down to the people involved to work it out in the most appropriate way for them?

Part of the skill of this game is in balancing all of the different victory and game end conditions. If you are clearly about to win and you have made it impossible for anyone to compete then it would be foolish to leave yourself vulnerable to losing via the Dead Snow. You should have spent some actions increasing your reputation or taken fewer Making actions.

I prefer not to kingmake, but I have a set of rules that I like to follow when I realise that I cannot win a game. I choose one of the following:

1) Maximise my own score - I do what I can to get the most points, regardless of all other considerations.
2) Maximise my position - if I can't get first place, aim for second; or just not last!
3) Minimise the difference in points between myself and the winner - this can mean bashing the leader or restricting the opportunities for other players to do well.

In LotIG this is a bit more complicated as there are arguably three different ways of measuring score and position (personal victory condition, points, reputation) and it probably depends on which condition triggers the game end. This can lead to some interesting decisions and some paths that might allow for kingmaking without it necessarily being a bad option.

Consider a scenario where you are in last place for points but you are only one step away from reaching your personal victory condition. All the players gang up to prevent you achieving your victory and this is effectively handing the game to the player who is winning on points. However, as your last action you can tip the Dead Snow marker over the end. You finish with the second highest reputation but still lose. How can you say this is any worse than finishing in last place on points?

I firmly stand by the position that players should have the choice. Changing the rule seems entirely unnecessary and negates a perfectly reasonable course of action.
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Don Sombrero
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Do the changes regard only the rulebook or is the second edition likely to contain any changes to the actual box content (or board layout)?
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Isaac Hayward
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@Peter: Thank you for your very passionate plea. I will definitely forward it to Krzysztof.

@John: All changes will be to the artwork (new iconography), rules (better flow, more circumstantial details, and a better summary) and player aids (specialized for each different character, rather than just the same generic details on each player aid).

Thanks guys, please keep the feedback coming. (^_^)
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Isaac Hayward
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bjlillo wrote:
Ahh! Don't change the iconography! I just got a (way too expensive) copy of this and I don't want to be confused with the new ruleset.


Hey BJ! I believe 90% of the iconography will be staying the same. I understand its only new iconography for abilities like placing Red Towers, etc, as well as a few icons for the game board that will help remind people of frequently overlooked rules (i.e. placing your marker on the BOTTOM of a reputation stack when using Raven Shadow).
I will try my best to get everything posted here and hopefully approved by yourself before going into the final release. (^_^)
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Jadehope wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
Ahh! Don't change the iconography! I just got a (way too expensive) copy of this and I don't want to be confused with the new ruleset.


Hey BJ! I believe 90% of the iconography will be staying the same. I understand its only new iconography for abilities like placing Red Towers, etc, as well as a few icons for the game board that will help remind people of frequently overlooked rules (i.e. placing your marker on the BOTTOM of a reputation stack when using Raven Shadow).
I will try my best to get everything posted here and hopefully approved by yourself before going into the final release. (^_^)


That kind of makes sense but I must say I fully understand BJ.

Redimp have recently released the statement saying there are about 50 copies available, which are way overpriced. I decided to go for it and played my first game two days ago.

If it turns out that the new edition is released soon (which will probably be better and cheaper) I will feel cheated. And I guess I'm not the only one.
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Isaac Hayward
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@BJ and John.

Don`t worry guys. RedImp is still a very small publisher of only a few people working by commission. Even I had to buy my own copy of the first edition, money is very tight. I have no reason to believe the second edition will be any cheaper, and on top of that it`s several months away at best. I really hope you`re both enjoy the game to it`s fullest now. (^_^)

As such, we would love to know what you think from your plays.
I`ve actually just finished a Player Aid that I really hope can help you enjoy the game even more. I tried to include all the most commonly overlooked rules and answers from the FAQ: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/113729/lord-ice-garde... . Please let us know what you think. I really hope it will make any need for the updated rules in the second edition obsolete.

Both of you have a fantastic day, and keep of enjoying Midgaard,

Isaac Hayward,
RedImp Publishing.
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J
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bjlillo wrote:
I'll let you know when I play it. A friend of mine bought it for me on the condition that my first play would be with him, so other than the learning solo game I'm going to do, it won't see the table until March.

The dreaded poison pill!
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Sebastian Elliker
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Concerning the rules change for ending the game with the dead snow track, the problem with this change is that it might just force a player to play the game even though he has no way to win at all. This is the case because the dead snow track is linked to the essential "Making"-action and without using the action (either to end the game or to create units), playing the game might just be pointless for some players in some games.

If you really want to avoid this kind of kingmaker problem, perhaps add a rule to the effect that if the usage of the "Making"-action will end the game with a loss for the current player, the game does not end, but the current player incurs some kind of negative effect.

Edit: Concerning the negative effect, a possibility would be that the player who uses the Making-Action gains a Vuko Token for every space the Dead Snow track would advance (instead of ending the game).

Furthermore, this could also be the case if people are at -9 of the reputation track. Thus, there is always a negative effect if one uses the Making-Action.
 
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eurek
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Hi,
I'm an owner of the first edition, I really like the game in spite (for me at least) of its flaws: iconography, rulebook, and maybe some graphic choices (territory chits fonts - brown cubes). I'm glad to hear that the game will have a second print with some of the above fixed, so it can reach a wider audience after just few months.

I hope however that the owners of the first print - that helped making the 2nd possible! - will not be forgotten. Will you consider upgrade packs / stickers / .. depending on the rework done?



Enrico
 
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I'm exactly of the same opinion.

I would propose the solution like Portal did with the upgraded version of Robinson - just release an upgrade pack that contains only materials that have been modified (board, reference cards, etc) - that would seem fair.
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Isaac Hayward
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enricodonaggio wrote:
Hi,
I'm an owner of the first edition, I really like the game in spite (for me at least) of its flaws: iconography, rulebook, and maybe some graphic choices (territory chits fonts - brown cubes). I'm glad to hear that the game will have a second print with some of the above fixed, so it can reach a wider audience after just few months.

I hope however that the owners of the first print - that helped making the 2nd possible! - will not be forgotten. Will you consider upgrade packs / stickers / .. depending on the rework done?



Enrico


@Eurek, John Brown - I'm definitely seeing what can be done about that. Please bear with us though as we unfortunately don't have the manpower of Portal Publishing just yet. As always, your enthusiasm for our games is what is pushing us to achieve even greater heights on our next title. Thanks so much for the kind words. (^_^)
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Francesco Gasparetti
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Isaac can you give us any news about the timing of the second version?
 
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Isaac Hayward
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gapsxever wrote:
Isaac can you give us any news about the timing of the second version?


Hello Francesco. You might be worried about the timely release of Blood Rage on Kickstarter as we are. While the overall game-play experience seems quite different, the theme and even map design seems scarily similar. Almost like a long lost twin. lolz.

Because of Blood Rage we will be pushing the release date back roughly two weeks, but we are still planning to launch during this month at this stage. We hope you are still as excited for Lord of the Ice Garden second edition as we are. (^_^)
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Ahmad Siddiqi
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Dear Isaac, that's great to hear. Any chances of this being available in the US? Or at not such an expensive price?
 
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Don Sombrero
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Wait, is the actual reprint happening this month? With updated graphics and everything?
 
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Isaac Hayward
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Don Sombrero wrote:
Wait, is the actual reprint happening this month? With updated graphics and everything?


Plans were to release the game this week. But because of the competition it will be roughly a fortnight from now. Its my understanding at this stage that the prices and shipping will be similar to the previous kickstarter. There will not be much in the way of graphical improvements, it is mainly the rule book that is being updated, most of everything else will remain the same. The game will most likely only be available through kickstarter as well.

Hope that answers your questions. (^_^)

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J
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Any chance we'll be able to purchase the new rule book separately to go with our first edition game?
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Isaac Hayward
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jarredscott78 wrote:
Any chance we'll be able to purchase the new rule book separately to go with our first edition game?


I'm pushing for it. The more interest the better. (^_^)
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Thanks for thec quick reply!

Just two more questions:

1. Is it an international version only and there will be a separate one on Wspieram.To or is it aimed at Polish backers as well?

2. Will it be possible to purchase only the contents of the Ulf's Bag?
 
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Isaac Hayward
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Don Sombrero wrote:
Thanks for thec quick reply!

Just two more questions:

1. Is it an international version only and there will be a separate one on Wspieram.To or is it aimed at Polish backers as well?

2. Will it be possible to purchase only the contents of the Ulf's Bag?


Sorry it took awhile to get these details.

1. There will be a Polish version of the game printed and released in Poland through normal channels and without the International rules.

2. Ulf's Bag will be available separately because you asked. (^_^)

Have an awesome day!
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Manubis Premier
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Hello,

I was frustrated to know too late about the first edition of this game cry.
Will the second edition be available in France (or Germany) ?

Best Regards,
Manubis.
 
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