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Subject: What's the final word on the hill giant promo? rss

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Scott Russell
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If you're willing to pay extra, then why are you not willing to just buy it from DoW? Are you now having an issue with shipping and handling?
Seems pretty clear, but I'll spell it out.
I'd pay $70 for a complete set, I won't pay $70 plus shipping.

Alternatively, I'd consider $22 for a figure $30+ is too much.

I suspect that you also have price points, they are just different than mine.

Quote:
Please, order it or don't, but this incessant whining about perfectly acceptable business practices is rediculous,


Quote:
whine

5. a feeble, peevish complaint.


I assume that this is the meaning you are using. I've stated I won't be pre-ordering and why. I suppose this could be construed as a complaint, but it's hardly feeble or peevish. As I noted in an earlier post, I have explained to DoW why I am not pre-ordering and offered some suggestions that if implememented would induce me to do do so. I see it as constructive criticism, but you are free to feel otherwise.



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as are the character attacks on DoW.
I said I found their offer a bit hypocritical and have explained why. You can choose to understand or not.
 
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Scott Russell
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The example would have to be if McDonalds was offering a happy meal "inside" for $4 with a free drink and then Burger King was offering the same deal for $3 without the drink.
It must be a curious part of the country you live in. We can only get McDonald's hamburgers at McDonald's, either inside or drive through. They are not available at Burger King.

With Battlelore, there is a base set and a bonus figure. If you buy it inside (storefront) you get a mini, if you buy it outside (online [except directly] you don't. I'm comparing delivery options, not different manufacturers.


Quote:
What you seem to miss is that you cannot hold one company responsible for the practices of another.
I still haven't seen where anyone is doing this. You keep sprinkling it in your posts, but I haven't seen it except in your posts.
 
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Mike zebrowski
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It is highly unusual for a game company to sell their own games online at a discount. After all, game companies are the ones that set the MSRP and they can easily sell a game for less than anyone else on the planet.

If a game company starts to undercut retail stores, then there is little incenstive for retail stores to carry their products.

Days of Wonder wants B&M game stores to carry BattleLore. The best way to have B&M stores carry BattleLore is for people to want to buy BattleLore at a B&M store. In order to make this happen, Days of Wonder has created an incentive program, namely the Hill Giant.

Now Days of Wonder knows that not everyone has a nearby game store. Thus they make the same offer through their web-store. Now, they can not undercut the B&M stores; otherwise, the whole purpose behind the promotion will be ruined.

Mike Z
 
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Scott Russell
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Again, you may continue to ignore the dictionary all you want, but it makes your arguments flawed and rediculous. There is nothing hypcritical about what they are doing.
If they want to encourage storefront purchases, they shouldn't also offer the same deal online. I can't make it any clearer than that.



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The actual FACT of the matter is you don't LIKE what they are doing and so you are willing to attack their character (and our language).
I actually don't have an emotional reaction to their offer, so your "fact" is similar in value to your arguments. I analyzed the costs involved and decided that I wouldn't participate in their offer. I explained why directly to DoW and also on this forum.

The situation seems to be that you don't like my position and the reasoning behind it, so you choose to portray it as an attack.

 
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Dear Days Of Wonder,

I am writing to inform you of my decision to no longer purchase any Days Of Wonder games. My reason for this decision is that it has become increasingly apparent that you are no longer serving the board gaming consumers in a manner that I find ethical and that fits my personal financial needs.

In particular, your decision to market BattleLore in a fashion that rewards the average local retailer and the uneducated consumers who foolishly buy at full retail (or nearly so). I find such marketing ploys on the part of a large publisher of board games to be both immoral and hypocritcal.

Why?

For the obvious reason that you are punishing the real board games fans such as myself. As a gamer who buys only at deep discount I feel that Days Of Wonder has abandoned people like me, overlooking the fact that because I never pay retail I can buy even more games... which even the most obtuse and dimwitted person can see does much more for expanding the hobby than simply selling games to "casual" consumers with no guarantee they'll become enthusiastic enough to see that deep discounts are really what drives this hobby.

As a knowledgable consumer and a respected member of BoardGameGeek I have my own bottom line to look after and I have a responsibility to ensure that my peers here at BGG are made aware of publishers who put their interests ahead of the interests of those of us who made you what you are today.

Since you have made it impossible for me to buy BattleLore at 35% off AND get the Hill Giant miniature I have decided that your company no longer has the integrity that I require in a game publisher. I am furious that you would, in collusion with retailers, create a devious and possibly illegal program to strip me of $21, all for a miniature that probably costs you .10 cents.

Should you reconsider, I'll be available as a consultant to your marketing department at a rate of $150 per hour. Plus expenses. I am also willing to share my insights with your staff by being available as a playtester, reviewer and industry insider. Hill Giants, Earth Elementals and review copies can be sent directly to my home address.

Sincerely,

Elton Mooch
Gamer-At-Large

 
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Mark Bigney
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qzhdad wrote:

If they want to encourage storefront purchases, they shouldn't also offer the same deal online. I can't make it any clearer than that.
I believe they are offering the deal online for people who do not live close to game stores and are completists.
Hey, wait, isn't that you?
 
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John Lopez
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Hypocritical: You keep using that word... I don't think it means what you think it means. (And since it was defined and the definition ignored already, let me spell out why I don't think the offer is hypocritical.)

DoW has decided to support local stores with a promo. The also decided to make that promotion available *at*a*much*higher*price* online. To discourage online purchases, and encourage local stores while giving some kind of out for those who have no local option.

Hypocritical would be if they made the promo available for local stores to use to entice people and then undercut them online with the same package. This is not what they are doing. You can paint it however you want, but it appears you are the only one who sees running a promotion without completely denying those who really have no FLGS as bad.

So you can continue to spill kilobytes of pixels complaining about it, but the only thing that this thread seems to be is an extended troll against DoW because of some perceived slight (perhaps because you already ordered and *then* found out how the promotion worked?) My suggestion: cancel your order. Write nasty letters to DoW. Write your congressman asking for fair and equal treatment for online stores during promotions. But I would hope the thread has been long enough to convince you that nobody else is being convinced that DoW is evil for running a promotion on a figure that is completely optional for game-play purposes and is available to all through very reasonable (to me, obviously not to you) terms.

'Nuff said.
 
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Scott Russell
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Ok, fine, as you state you are "comparing delivery options..." of Two completely different companies! Hello, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You are holding one company (DoW) responsible for what... (TH,B&B, etc...) chooses to do.

This is plainly obvious b/c if this other option weren't available there wouldn't be any of these "peevish complaints." DoW made a business model, the etailers made one too. Just b/c there are different (or even at odds) does not mean that the one you don't like is hypcritical.
It seems that you are mixing discussions. The whole point of the cost of the "free" figure at one place vs another has nothing to do with my application of the word hypocritcal.

The whole point of that thread was discussing the concept of calculating the cost of the "free" figure. If you can get BL for $X with Hill Giant and $Y without the Hill Giant, then the cost of the Hill Giant is $X-Y. Seems pretty obvious to me.

Quote:

You still seem to have no handle on what that word means.
I agree that at least one of us is having comprehension issues.

I will also point out that perceptions are not facts and it is quite possible to disagree on how to interpret a situation.

In my opinion, I perceive professing to support storefronts while providing a means to avoid it and get the same benefit as hypocritical. I understand that people can interpret the situation in a different way. I don't even foam at the mouth when others disagree with me. cool

It may even be that they aren't supporting storefronts, but instead are just trying to prop up the street value of their products. But then, it seems that they should allow other online stores the option of participating as long as they charge MSRP.

And to repond in passing to some other posts above, hypocritical isn't synonymous with evil or immoral. (And personally I find applying the concept of morality to businesses misguided.)


It may prove to be a good business practice in this case. I don't really see my discussion as derogatory to DoW or their products. I enjoy (and own) several DoW products. Some purchased at retail price, others purchased at a discount.

I've explained why I won't be taking advantage of their current offer and suggested modifications to this or future offers that might tempt me to participate. It's free (but they can send the $150 per hour, if they want), candid feedback of this particular marketing tool and what the penalty may be with respect to my purchasing plans.


$70 + shipping is more than I am willing to gamble on a new game based strongly on a system that hasn't dazzled me. Everyone has a price point and that is close to mine. If they were offering free shipping like they are in Europe, I'd probably bite. As it is, I won't.

 
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Paul DeStefano
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I'm pretty sure my next game release will have promos only through stores that have a "Y" in their name.

After all, look at the amazing publicity generated by making a special offer made to entice people to actually go to locations where they might play the game. The completionists will cause such a massive viral marketing campaign that any loss of their business is more than made up for by the amount of time they spend talking about the practice, possibly making more viable and interested target audiences aware of the product.

Awesome.
 
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Ryan McLelland
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Geosphere wrote:
I'm pretty sure my next game release will have promos only through stores that have a "Y" in their name.

After all, look at the amazing publicity generated by making a special offer made to entice people to actually go to locations where they might play the game. The completionists will cause such a massive viral marketing campaign that any loss of their business is more than made up for by the amount of time they spend talking about the practice, possibly making more viable and interested target audiences aware of the product.

Awesome.
If you can't stop the trolls from trolling, harness them up and have them pull the wagon.
 
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John Di Ponio
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WOW...way out of control!
I ordered the game online. I figure getting the game for 56.00 total and having it shipped to my door makes me not have to worry about burning gas to get to the store which is not that close. Plus...I don't have to go in to put in the pre order! Time and money are very precious commodities being a single father! Do I need the special mini's?....not to play the game! Expansions will come soon enough and shadow the bonus minis in the future. Plus...if I don't have them, I can't use them... and my kids won't bitch about who gets who!
It's all in what you cann afford to do and what you really want to get off the bat for the game!!! LETS ALL RELAX!!!!laugh
 
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Andrew Prizzi
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D'OH! I should have realized that voicing criticisms about a game on BGG only makes it sell better. That must be why Monopoly and Risk keep doing so well. I'm going to go buy some Guild of Blades stock.
 
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Scott Russell
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Godeke wrote:
Hypocritical: You keep using that word... I don't think it means what you think it means.
To respond from same source,
Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

Godeke wrote:

(And since it was defined and the definition ignored already, let me spell out why I don't think the offer is hypocritical.)

DoW has decided to support local stores with a promo. The also decided to make that promotion available *at*a*much*higher*price* online.
Actually, same nominal, lower actucal price than MSRP from storefront.


Godeke wrote:

To discourage online purchases, and encourage local stores while giving some kind of out for those who have no local option.

Hypocritical would be if they made the promo available for local stores to use to entice people and then undercut them online with the same package.
So now you are saying that they are hypocritical? They are undercutting MSRP to your door. (postage is cheaper than driving to store twice, and probably once).

Godeke wrote:

This is not what they are doing. You can paint it however you want, but it appears you are the only one who sees running a promotion without completely denying those who really have no FLGS as bad.
Again, hypocritical doesn't necessarily mean bad.

Godeke wrote:

So you can continue to spill kilobytes of pixels complaining about it, but the only thing that this thread seems to be is an extended troll against DoW because of some perceived slight (perhaps because you already ordered and *then* found out how the promotion worked?)
Nope, apparently unlike many others, I do not have reading comprehension issues. I don't perceive feedback as a troll, although you are free to use the word however you please.


I am apparently not nearly as worked up about this as many seem to be. My only emotion (contrary to many that have been attributed to me) is mild amusement.

DoW is, of course, free to use any promotions that they see valuable. They are equally free to consider or ignore any points made by any potential customer. And the potential customers are free to offer their opinions, explicitly and/or with credit cards.
 
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Martin Stever
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DWTripp wrote:
Dear Days Of Wonder,

...to see that deep discounts are really what drives this hobby...

Sincerely,

Elton Mooch
Gamer-At-Large

Hahaha! That really cracked me up. I can only hope it was written tongue firmly planted in cheek.
 
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John Lopez
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I congratulate you on your excellent ability to hop, skip, and jump around points to avoid the real point, which is of course, that you failed to use a word correctly and now do not have the intellectual honesty to admit it.
I suggest surrendering: it has degraded to point by point selective quoting with absurd argumentation attached. To which I say, WHATEVER!
 
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Mike zebrowski
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qzhdad wrote:
They are undercutting MSRP to your door. (postage is cheaper than driving to store twice, and probably once).
The cheapest shipping option (for me anyways, I don't know if they dynamically calculate it based on where you are located) is $8.09.

If it costs you $8.09 to go to your nearest game store once, then you either don't have a local game store, in which case you can order it from DoW, or you have a gas-guzzling vehicle, which is your own damn fault.

Mike Z
 
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or you have a gas-guzzling vehicle, which is your own damn fault.
Hey! I resemble that remark!

But me, being the uninformed and mindless supporter of all that is good in gaming, I most certainly did drive 35 miles in my Urban Assault Vehicle to pre-order the game. While there, I pre-ordered FFG's Marvel Super Heroes and Tide of Iron. MMMMMmmmmm... I love that game store smell!
 
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Scott Russell
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(you should run for political office).
Sticks and stones.
laugh

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When did DoW profess to support store fronts? Or is this just another of your "perceptions?"
I think running through this thread, it has been understood that the reason for the offer was to support purchases at retail stores.

I thought this was a common understanding by all participants and readers of this thread, but it seems that you missed it.

I'll spell it out for you. My posts that point out why I find their offer hypocritical assumes that the reason for the offer is to support sales at LGS.

Quote:
Words have meanings. Unfortunately, you don't seem to realize this or know what the definitions are.
I agree with all of the above quote. In my opinion, the word as you defined it applies in this case. In your opinion, it doesn't. I don't see that as relativistic, I see it as a difference of opinion.

You probably prefer your beer colder than I prefer mine. I could state that "Your beer is too cold," simultaneously with you stating, "My beer is not too cold." We would both be using the word cold and the phrase 'too cold' correctly, but have a difference of opinion on whether it applies to your beer.

I contend that two people can agree on what a word means and disagree on whether it applies to a given situation or not. You can disagree with that contention if you want, but it won't make it wrong. laugh


 
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Scott Russell
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Agreed. I'm done arguing with this Troll and will not be returning to this thread.


Promises, promises. laugh

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There is no point in arguing with those who don't even consider the possibility that they could be wrong.
But I notice that many are still willing to debate with you despite your inclination to not admit knowing less than absolute truth.

And speaking of politicians, when they can't win with logic, they claim victory and run away. When do you announce your candidacy?
 
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Scott Russell
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Mike Zebrowski wrote:

The cheapest shipping option (for me anyways, I don't know if they dynamically calculate it based on where you are located) is $8.09.

If it costs you $8.09 to go to your nearest game store once, then you either don't have a local game store, in which case you can order it from DoW, or you have a gas-guzzling vehicle, which is your own damn fault.

Mike Z
22 miles as the crow flies. Current goverment deduciton for miles is $0.44. That's $19.36. In pure gas costs, it's about $3.66, but wear and tear on my car is costing something and I consider my time valuable as well. If the store had other games in which I was interested, it might still be worth it. There are game stores that I'll drive farther than that to visit. But it's a hobby store first with some games available.

AS I mentioned, we all have a price point, mine is evidently lower than yours. I can live with that.
 
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Godeke wrote:
Quote:
I congratulate you on your excellent ability to hop, skip, and jump around points to avoid the real point, which is of course, that you failed to use a word correctly and now do not have the intellectual honesty to admit it.
I suggest surrendering: it has degraded to point by point selective quoting with absurd argumentation attached. To which I say, WHATEVER!
I agree that you and your cohorts have ignored large chunks of my posts, but I assumed it was lazy rather than malicious.

You specifically stated that if DoW undercut local game stores they would meet _your_ definition of hypocrisy. I just called you on it by pointing out that they do.
 
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Ryan McLelland
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Three bloody pages over a silly Hill Troll... er... giant.
 
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My main problem with this whole promotion is that most of the FLGS DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT BATTLELORE IS!!

Seriously, I can understand the urge to help out the B&M stores. Whatever, I'll pre-order from them, and pay more to get the promo figure.

Unfortuntely, this doesn't seem to work since none of the stores I contacted even knew about it. Most of them were like "Hmm, some people earlier asked about that game. Maybe I should look into it.".

Just makes me remember why I don't use B&M stores usually. I pay more, and get nothing extra in return. No knowlegable staff, no pre-order (cause they don't know what the game is), pitiful selection usually and a "gaming area" or whatever in the back I don't need cause I've got a table at my own house where it's much easier to play and I don't have to muscle a bunch of underage CCG players out of my way.

All in all, I think this promotion is well intentioned, but if the stores your trying to support don't even know of this game, wtf is the point.
 
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John Lopez
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All in all, I think this promotion is well intentioned, but if the stores your trying to support don't even know of this game, wtf is the point.
Now *that* is a reasonable complaint.
 
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Shryke wrote:
My main problem with this whole promotion is that most of the FLGS DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT BATTLELORE IS!!
I believe this is the whole reason for the promotion. ie. Make you get your FLGS to pre-order, thus DoW gets product in a new store.
 
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