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Subject: What's the final word on the hill giant promo? rss

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Jon Greisz
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Lurch104 wrote:
Isn't it strange that people who are upset by this are called rabid, ignorant, un-intelligent, etc while those who agree seem to have the only answer.
I was one of the first to bitch about not getting the piece. But I understand the reasoning and it's DoW's choice in how they market it. What I don't understand is why everyone seems so hot on the issue. Oh yeah, that's how forums work.

The game is completely playable without the piece. So people can choose to save money and not get the piece, or pay extra and get it. I don't have a local FLGS to support as I alway buy online, so I can either pay extra and get the piece, or get it cheaper without the piece.

I didn't like it, complained about it, and pre-ordered from the DoW site as I wanted the piece.

Why this is going on and on I'll never know. But then again I just added more to it.

Edit: Less caps. Actually just typos.
 
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Mike zebrowski
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Lurch104 wrote:
I just refuse to pay 2x the RETAIL cost of an item to support a (F)LGS that does nothing for me.
None of us that are pre-ordering through our local game store are paying 2x the retail cost. We are paying the retail cost, which is $70.

If you are refering to when you bought Settlers of Catan, at one time the retail price was $45. Mayfair has since dropped the retail price to $38.

Mike Z


 
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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Godeke wrote:
Edit: MORE CAPS.
I have been reading this thread with much amusement, but I have to say Godeke wins the "spewed water laughing" award.

I understand the rational and selfless concerns of the people who hate this promo. From what I've read, if you don't order straight from DOW for 200% the retail price, you're getting 10% of the base game and they spit in the box, and tha's just bad business regardless of their game's quality.
 
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Andrew Prizzi
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The situation:

Some people are interested in the game. They are also interested in the hill giant. However, they don't think the giant (1 mini) is worth $30. So they've voiced their opinion.

That doesn't seem particularly unreasonable or particularly cheap to me. Looking at what a pack of heroscape figures cost, I'd guess that most people would think $10 to $15 for the giant would be reasonable.

I haven't seen ANYONE make an argument that the giant is actually worth paying an extra $30 for the game. Instead, people have been told they should quit their whining, stop being a miser, and fork the extra money over "for the good of the hobby". Huh?
 
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Quote:
Some people are interested in the game. They are also interested in the hill giant. However, they don't think the giant (1 mini) is worth $30. So they've voiced their opinion.

That doesn't seem particularly unreasonable or particularly cheap to me. Looking at what a pack of heroscape figures cost, I'd guess that most people would think $10 to $15 for the giant would be reasonable.


Jaysus!!!

I understand selective hearing... but only on The Geek do you get this level of selective reading...

You, and several others flunk the critical reading skills test. This thread is all about people being angry that they will have to pay more TO GET A MINIATURE!!! The entire subject boils down to:

a) I want 35% off
b) I want the Hill Giant
c) I want 35% off AND the Hill Giant
d) Don't hate me because I'm a mooch... hate DoW because they don't gift wrap the game, hand deliver it to my door, give me a massage, spoon feed me lobster and then leave a good looking chick behind... for 35% off!

Even the guy who lives in the tundra... Russia? Or is that Canada? Even those guys live there because, well, because they freely choose to. DoW has the same right to choose how they do things.

So. Is the Hill Giant worth $30? No. But guess what? It doesn't cost $30. In fact, for all you college grads who can't read - the Hill Giant is FREE, FREE, FREE!!!!

You just don't get one if you buy it from an online discounter. But, you get the game cheaper.
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Mike zebrowski
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prizziap wrote:
Some people are interested in the game. They are also interested in the hill giant. However, they don't think the giant (1 mini) is worth $30.
Where is this $30 figure coming from? I've pre-ordered (and pre-paid) for a copy of BattleLore at my local store and it was only $18.11 (after sales-tax) more than the price that cardhaus is advertising.

Mike Z
 
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Andrew Prizzi
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Ummm, if can buy a game for X dollars or I can buy the same game for X+30 dollars BUT it comes with a neat hill giant, I'm pretty sure that works out to the giant costing $30.
 
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Andrew Prizzi
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The $30 figure came from someone who posted earlier in the thread. In their case the difference between getting the game with or without the giant was 30 bucks. The figure would vary depending on where live because of taxes and whatever deal a local store would give you.
 
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Bobb Beauchamp
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I think what we're seeing here is partly connected to what BL is...a wargame/boardgame utilizing the model established by Heroscape...unlimited expandability built into the system. It takes the business model proven by CCGs...design a core game, release continuing product to expand and change the game, thus providing a continuing revenue stream as opposed to a one-time revenue stream. It's a dichotomy that my brother and I represent. He's an older school grognard. Games to him are complete entities, totally playable out of the box, with no need or desire for expansions. Maybe a new scenario will pop up in the future that calls for the additional unit or two. But there's no room or interest in a system that doesn't come with anything and everything that might go into the game. No expansion armies, no new units, no retired units, etc.

Me, on the other hand, got heavily into gaming through CCGs. The idea of the ever-expanding game system is what I'm used to. Getting new cards/units every 3 months or so is something I look forward to.

BL mixes these two crowds, and this promotion just causes them to come to a head. The traditional wargame crowd wants a complete game. They may accept the idea of future armies that they might or might not purchase, but chafe at the idea that their game might not be complete at release. Newer gamers tolerant and accepting of the continuing money stream model of newer games don't see the big deal.

Personally, I think M:tG was the best thing to happen to the game industry. It proved to publishers that a game could be a predictable and reliable income source. The old model of producing a game, then producing another game, etc., is not viable. It depends too much on being able to continually produce games that sell, and bring in new players. The newer model of developing a game, and then producing expansions for that game, provides a much more reliable revenue stream that a publisher can invest in and support.
 
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Scott Russell
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Mike Zebrowski wrote:
prizziap wrote:
Some people are interested in the game. They are also interested in the hill giant. However, they don't think the giant (1 mini) is worth $30.
Where is this $30 figure coming from? I've pre-ordered (and pre-paid) for a copy of BattleLore at my local store and it was only $18.11 (after sales-tax) more than the price that cardhaus is advertising.

Mike Z
Fariplay (my friendly local store) $48.95 free shipping + tax $51.88
DoW $70 + $4.20 tax + 8 shipping $82.20
SLGS $70 + $4.20 + one or two trips to store (~20 miles away) = ~$80-85
 
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Scott Russell
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kingbobb wrote:

The old model of producing a game, then producing another game, etc., is not viable. It depends too much on being able to continually produce games that sell, and bring in new players.
I bet Hans im Gluck, Ravensburger and Kosmos (ok, maybe not Kosmos ) as well as the host of smaller publishers are going to be distressed that their businesses are doomed.
 
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Will Haskell
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You guys are all crazy! This deal is sick. All I have to do is buy a $70 Hill Giant, and it comes with a free game!laugh
 
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prizziap wrote:
Ummm, if can buy a game for X dollars or I can buy the same game for X+30 dollars BUT it comes with a neat hill giant, I'm pretty sure that works out to the giant costing $30.
You see Dan, this is exactly what I mean. You have created a false scenario that fits your perception of what you want it to be. FYI... BattleLore has a $69.99 MSRP. The Hill Giant is free if you buy it at a B&M store or off the DoW website. It doesn't cost anything. Nada. Zip. Nyet. Nothing. But rather than accept the fact, the cold hard FACT that it's a FREE PROMO available at retailers... you redifine it by asserting that because you can buy THE GAME for less, therefore the Hill Giant has a price.

In truth, you can buy the game for X dollars ($69.99) or, you can buy the game for X-$25 (not X+). In one case, a B&M retailer, you get a promo. If it's an online retailer, you get just the discount. Your choice... there's always a choice.

In my case I have pre-ordered BL at a pre-pay price of $54 at my FLGS. Guess what? I also get a Hill Giant... which... (here it comes...) is FREE!!!

Which takes us back to my orignal point... the carping here is 100% about some people being miffed that they can't get a FREE HILL GIANT and an online deep discount.

 
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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I think Dan brings up
a good point
that hasn't been discussed
earlier.



I am so sorry for feeding the flames, but I can't pass up a chance to use that graphic ninja
 
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Joseph Noll
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kingbobb wrote:
I think what we're seeing here is partly connected to what BL is...a wargame/boardgame utilizing the model established by Heroscape...unlimited expandability built into the system. It takes the business model proven by CCGs...design a core game, release continuing product to expand and change the game, thus providing a continuing revenue stream as opposed to a one-time revenue stream.
Well said, but I'd like to add that the better analogy may be Games Workshop's core games Warhammer 40K and Warhammer Fantasy Battle. The difference being that CCGs and CMGs are blind sales of collections; where as BL is more akin to Heroscape and GW's games where you know what you are getting in the expansions. What I find interesting is that DoW is going down the GW route, but with a Heroscape presentation. To me this is almost perfect.

My gaming group has been looking for a game like this. A miniature game that does not require lots of non-game time painting troops and creating terrain, but still gives the fantasy battle feel. We are all older now and have less disposable time and would rather spend it playing games than getting ready to play a game. IMHO if DoW does this right and the expansions add to the game intelligently (ie. expansions don't break the game) and DoW makes provision for creating your own armies, they may be able to gain some of the Miniature Battle market share and have great success. I would like to see pre-painted miniatures, but that is not a deal breaker for me.

And to all those who are complaining about the Hill Giant promo, trust me this promo is a good idea. DoW is trying to promote the FLGS, there is nothing wrong with that, and alot right with it. If you compare this practice to some of GW's business practices, DoW are practically saints.

 
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Matt Smith
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DWTripp,

Let's use a math story problem to illustrate my perspective on this promo:

You can buy Purchase A (BL+HG) for $80 ($70+tax&travel) at a FLGS, or you can buy Purchase B (BL) for $60 ($49+tax+shipping) at an online store. This gives you:

BL + HG = $80
BL = $60

Substitute $60 for BL in the first equation:

$60 + HG = $80

Subtracting $60 from both sides reveals:

HG = $20

Math doesn't lie, my friend. The HG isn't free.

Your argument assumes the cost of a product is the MSRP, even if it's not the lowest price available. To me, the cost of a product is how much money I'd have to spend to acquire the product. If I know there is a lower price available than MSRP, then the cost of the product is the lower price. If a retailer tries to get me to pay more for the product by throwing in an extra item, then the price for the extra item is the difference between what I could pay (lowest price) and what the retailer wants me to pay to get the extra item.

If your argument was true, then the ads offering free superbowl tickets if you buy a t-shirt for $1000 would mean the tickets really are free. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can get the t-shirt for a lot less than $1000, so the tickets really aren't free.

Edit - Included shipping in online scenario to make it representative of most people's options
 
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Scott Russell
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Quote:
In my case I have pre-ordered BL at a pre-pay price of $54 at my FLGS. Guess what? I also get a Hill Giant... which... (here it comes...) is FREE!!!
If I had a FLGS that gave 20% off for pre-orders, I'd be all over it.

Where does deep discounting start in your vernacular, DW?

Does your FLGS do mailorder?

Assume that there were two car dealers in town, both selling the same model car (or truck, in your case).

Dealer A sells a vehicle with a radio for $30,400. The other dealer sells the same car, but with no radio for $30,000. I guess you are going to say the radio's free from dealer A, right?
 
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Andrew Prizzi
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A hungry geek stops by his local DWTrippburger for a bite to eat....

Geek: Hmmm, I'll take a double cheeseburger, fries, and a coke.

Cashier: Would you like to add bacon to the burger sir? It's free.

Geek: Sure!

(Geek hands over money)

Cashier: I'm sorry sir, but you're a bit short. It's 50 cents more for the double cheeseburger with the bacon.

Geek: But you said the bacon was free.

Cashier: It is free.

Geek: But the burger costs 50 cents more with the bacon.

Cashier: So?

Geek: So, the bacon costs 50 cents.

Cashier: No it doesn't. It's free. The burger doesn't cost anything more with the bacon. It just costs less without it. I think your problem is that you're creating a false choice.

Geek: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Leaves the store screaming)




I love free stuff especially when it doesn't cost much.
 
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Matthew M
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You're all thinking about this backwards. The hill giant is free. The discount from online retailers is not. Anyone care to do the math to calculate the cost of the discount?

-MMM
 
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Scott Russell
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Octavian wrote:
You're all thinking about this backwards. The hill giant is free. The discount from online retailers is not. Anyone care to do the math to calculate the cost of the discount?

-MMM
I'm interested, please show us the assumptions that you would make to set up such a math problem.
 
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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I'm actually getting offended at all the horrible analogies here. I hate to
but since I'm here...

Quote:
Math doesn't lie, my friend. The HG isn't free.
1. Math can lie because its conclusions depend on the way you set up the problem. So don't give us that crap.

2. You're assumption is that you deserve the Hill Giant for buying the game. BL + HG = &80 isn't true. BL = $80 alone, period. The hill giant is just a free promo you get for shopping at DoW or a B&M store. You are getting no less of a game when buying at an online store, like I will be doing. I'm getting a full, huge, awesome game, and a discount yay! Someone who buys it at a B&M store, for whatever price the store chooses to charge for it, gets the same game and a free Hill Giant. YAY!

I understand the (very utilitarian) argument you're making but utilitarianism has a nifty way of bypassing all the subtleties of a situation that shows you're full of it.
 
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Matthew M
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Sure thing.

BL = BattleLore
HG = Hill Giant
MSRP = MSRP
Dis = Discount

MSRP = BL + HG
MSRP + Dis = BL
.:.
Dis = -HG


-MMM
 
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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prizziap wrote:
I love free stuff especially when it doesn't cost much.
DoW isn't increasing the cost of the game when selling it to B&M stores who get the HG or decreasing it for online stores who don't.

Analogy: shot down.
 
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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qzhdad wrote:
Dealer A sells a vehicle with a radio for $30,400. The other dealer sells the same car, but with no radio for $30,000. I guess you are going to say the radio's free from dealer A, right?
DoW isn't increasing the cost of the game when selling it to B&M stores who get the HG or decreasing it for online stores who don't.

Analogy: shot down.
 
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Scott Russell
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Octavian wrote:
Sure thing.

BL = BattleLore
HG = Hill Giant
MSRP = MSRP
Dis = Discount

MSRP = BL + HG
MSRP + Dis = BL
.:.
Dis = -HG
You just proved the HG is equal to -Dis
so HG is equivalent to $30.
 
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