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Subject: What's the final word on the hill giant promo? rss

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John Lopez
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So I came back to see how far this trainwreck had slid down the hill, and I all find is the same complaints.

Here are the facts:

a) DoW is free give hill giants away however they want. I suggest they only go to those 6 foot tall or greater. It would be thematic.

b) Online stores are not offered the hill giant because they don't fit with DoW's idea of world domination. Agree with it or not, those of you who want cake and eating it too are just out of luck. As pointed out, the online discounter is effectively costing you a hill giant figure at this time.

c) I preordered at my local store at $60 with a hill giant. Your local store apparently sucks/doesn't exist. So sorry about that. Perhaps it is all the purchases they don't get because people are busy buying online?

And yet, a sense of entitlement persists unabated by those who can't come to grips with a, b and c above. You don't find the hill giant worth the discount it will cost you to obtain it. I get it, I get it, really I do.

I just don't care anymore.

Edit: Adding taunt "I'm getting a pony hill giant and you aren't." ninja

 
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Scott Russell
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Godeke wrote:

I just don't care anymore.

And yet, you keep coming back to spread your apathy.....
 
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Yet more personal opinions that add no particular value or new concepts to the discussion...

If I want to go to the nearest LGS I can. I'm sure they'll be carrying BattleLore. They can probably do a pre-order and get me the promo. I'll probably have to wait a week or two past release to actually get it, since they never stock things on time, but that's not too big a deal.
You'll notice, however, that I didn't put an 'F' on the name. Oh, the employees are fine. The store owners...well they pretty much despise hobby games. They certainly don't provide gaming space. They don't train their employees to know about hobby games. They really resent the fact that hobby games contribute a lot of their money, because they far prefer selling Monopoly and novelty item garbage.

On the other hand, I can drive down the street a few blocks to the warehouse of an online retailer. I can chat with the owner and learn about new games. I can pick up the game on release day. I can then play it over at his house during one of the times he frequently hosts game nights. If I play it at home, if I do so with anyone other than my girlfriend its probably people we met through the local game group he started.

In case you haven't guessed, I would much rather give my money to the "online" retailer.
 
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David
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c) I preordered at my local store at $60 with a hill giant. Your local store apparently sucks/doesn't exist. So sorry about that. Perhaps it is all the purchases they don't get because people are busy buying online?
Ok, this I have to call you on. Complete bullshit here.

The truth is, if your going to CHARGE more, you need to OFFER more. Whether it be convenience, extra services, good deals, etc.

If your nearby B&M stores don't do this, they don't deserve your buisness. Why should I pay more to "support" a store that provides me with nothing extra for the more money they charge me.

DoW can make this promotion work however they want, it's there product. I don't like how it works, but that's life for ya. I want the HG, I'm willing to pay the extra money.

But the truth is alot of people either don't have FLGS or don't have local LGS that are even worth supporting. So all the promotion does for these people is cause them problems trying to find a store selling this game that's conveniently located, or ordering from DoW directly and (for some of us) getting raped by shipping charges. This is something we CAN complain about.
 
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Scott Russell
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It's pretty clear that many of you are quite pleased with DoW's offer, congrats, we share your jubilation, especially those of you that received significant discounts.

Obviously, you can repeat that you are happy over and over, it's a free forum. I don't think you have people telling you to get over it and shut up. If you have, I missed it.

So, if it's not a thread that interests you, why do you feel the need to tell those of us that feel the deal is unfair to get over it and/or imply that we should shut up.

Potentially, I'd like to participate in future DoW offers and would like them to consider changing their terms for future promotion. I am not jumping up and down screaming that they have to change it. Not buying this game hurts DoW more than it hurts me and in either case, it's negligible.

However, if they modify their future offers, it will benfit both DoW ad me. Why does it bother you so much?

 
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John Lopez
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qzhdad wrote:
Godeke wrote:

I just don't care anymore.

And yet, you keep coming back to spread your apathy.....
That's because I find you SOOO IRRESISTIBLE when you're cranky.
 
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Assume that there were two car dealers in town, both selling the same model car (or truck, in your case).

Dealer A sells a vehicle with a radio for $30,400. The other dealer sells the same car, but with no radio for $30,000. I guess you are going to say the radio's free from dealer A, right?
Nope. One dealer has a better price. Since a radio actually has a price (usually included in the sticker) this is apples and oranges. Why. Well, because the Hill Giant doesn't have a price! It's... free! At selected retailers.

But, using your car analogy... if the car had a $1,000 rebate to the dealer (a common incentive for dealers) and the dealer chose to offer a customer either the rebate or a $1,000 discount there will always be customers who want the discount AND the rebate. In auto dealer parlance these customers are known as "mooches", or perhaps "cheap screws".

I personally think this thread is hilarious. Adding in an arbitrary dollar amount for gas and wear&tear on a vehicle to go get a game is not only absurd, it's an early sign of mental illness. Do people actually figure the cost of a loaf of bread by adding gas and tread wear to the $1.25 they spend to get the loaf? Fer Chrissakes! It's a game... not health insurance or your child's education. Either buy the damned thing locally and get the FREE HILL GIANT or buy it online and get a $25 discount.

It's a choice. And you're free to decide which route works for oyu.
 
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Matthew M
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qzhdad wrote:
Octavian wrote:
Sure thing.

BL = BattleLore
HG = Hill Giant
MSRP = MSRP
Dis = Discount

MSRP = BL + HG
MSRP + Dis = BL
.:.
Dis = -HG
You just proved the HG is equal to -Dis
so HG is equivalent to $30.
Nope. As I've said, you've got it backwards. The discount is equivalent to not getting a free hill giant. The number 30 is unimportant.

-MMM
 
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John Lopez
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Shryke wrote:
Quote:
c) I preordered at my local store at $60 with a hill giant. Your local store apparently sucks/doesn't exist. So sorry about that. Perhaps it is all the purchases they don't get because people are busy buying online?
Ok, this I have to call you on. Complete bullshit here.

The truth is, if your going to CHARGE more, you need to OFFER more. Whether it be convenience, extra services, good deals, etc.

If your nearby B&M stores don't do this, they don't deserve your buisness. Why should I pay more to "support" a store that provides me with nothing extra for the more money they charge me.

DoW can make this promotion work however they want, it's there product. I don't like how it works, but that's life for ya. I want the HG, I'm willing to pay the extra money.

But the truth is alot of people either don't have FLGS or don't have local LGS that are even worth supporting. So all the promotion does for these people is cause them problems trying to find a store selling this game that's conveniently located, or ordering from DoW directly and (for some of us) getting raped by shipping charges. This is something we CAN complain about.
Bah, what's to "call me on" here. I have three stores locally, two of which a great stores. You don't. Apparently that makes you sad. However, we have stores here because there are enough people buying games locally that they can be exist and provide the quality they do. You don't.

How the heck does that make my argument complete BS? Because I live in a vibrant gaming community and you don't. Sorry, that doesn't mean I somehow don't exist or your stores don't suck. In fact, you seem to be agreeing with me, from what I can tell.
 
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Edit: Added the source for the education and enlightenment of those who the humor was lost upon. Yes, there is IS a Simpsons quote for every occasion.
 
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DWTripp wrote:

I personally think this thread is hilarious. Adding in an arbitrary dollar amount for gas and wear&tear on a vehicle to go get a game is not only absurd, it's an early sign of mental illness. Do people actually figure the cost of a loaf of bread by adding gas and tread wear to the $1.25 they spend to get the loaf? .
You would be surprised by what people do to save a buck. Washout and resuse sandwich bags is my favorite. If you really want to see what some people do, look up 'diva cup' on Google. Don't say I didn't warn you.
 
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John Lopez
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ejamer wrote:
Why do we keep watching the thread? Maybe because it's funny to see a couple of (presumably) full-grown people refuse to back down from their opinions on such a silly subject.

"The giant costs $30!"
"No, it's free!"
"No, it's $30!"

Conversely, why do the few who object so vehemently to the DoW promotion feel it necessary to continually argue about how unfair it is for DoW to "charge $30" for a plastic figure? Maybe because they've got nothing better to do.


Can someone post the picture of the dead horse again? That was priceless.
OK, I will fess up... I unsubscribed because I could feel my inner troll gaining strength with each impassioned plea over a piece of plastic. However, as the page count went up I looked again and felt my inner troll grow even stronger. I have gone to the dark side! devil

Edit: Added happy devil. Somebody stop me!
 
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Matthew M
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One thing is certain...

...there appears to be no final word in sight.

-MMM
 
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Bah, what's to "call me on" here. I have three stores locally, two of which a great stores. You don't. Apparently that makes you sad. However, we have stores here because there are enough people buying games locally that they can be exist and provide the quality they do. You don't.

How the heck does that make my argument complete BS? Because I live in a vibrant gaming community and you don't. Sorry, that doesn't mean I somehow don't exist or your stores don't suck. In fact, you seem to be agreeing with me, from what I can tell.
You said "Perhaps it is all the purchases they don't get because people are busy buying online?". This say that we don't have FLGS because we buy games online. That's the BS. Maybe, just maybe, the reason we shop online is because we don't have any FLGS that's worth giving our buisness too.

You seem to make some strange assumption here that a B&M store somehow DESERVES to exist mearly by being B&M, and not based on a working buisness model. Somehow we SHOULD be shopping at these places despite the fact that they charge more for no extra gain.

And somehow this means don't live in a "vibrant gamiing community"? Even more BS. I play games all the time with a large group of my friends/friends of friends. The lack of a FLGS has done nothing to hurt this, other then in our pre-BGG days when we didn't really know what kind of games were out there. To that extent, BGG and online stores have HELPED out gaming community by exposing us to more games and allowing us to aquire those games at student friendly prices.
 
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Andrew Prizzi
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"Yes, I'm just trying to rile people up. Yes, until NBA season starts this is better than cable."



That's completely outrageous! Everybody knows the NBA isn't worth watching until the playoffs.

 
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Bah, what's to "call me on" here. I have three stores locally, two of which a great stores. You don't. Apparently that makes you sad. However, we have stores here because there are enough people buying games locally that they can be exist and provide the quality they do. You don't.
You know... I don't really want to derail this thread and turn it into a quality discussion, but Lopez makes an interesting point here. One that is often overlooked in the clamor to "get it cheap" and the hue & cry over not getting what Bob-the-gamer-next-door has.

A good percentage of frequent contributors here live in areas with a much larger population base than I do. Yet, like Lopez, there are three quality game stores in Boise and one so-so store. In each case the stores are owned and operated by former customers of my original store, mainly when the owners were still in Jr. High or grade school. With a 50 mile radius population of just over 300,000, Boise supports 4 stores and is a factor in the success of online merchants like Boards&Bits and Thoughthammer. There are major chains like B&N and Hastings and Borders who all sell board games along with Walmart and TRU stores.

It's a thriving game community that was not accidental. It was built. Online, mass-market and FLGS co-exist and all derive income and profits from the gamers who reside here.

A FREE PROMOTION, like what DoW is doing targets a gaming community like SW Idaho by rewarding people who shop at niche game stores. DoW fans also have the OPTION of being rewarded by buying online and receiving a substantial discount. In addition, if DoW gets mass-market exposure, there will be yet another venue where gamers can reap a discount or even an "access" reward.

Cries of "unfair", because your community is a weak one, gaming-wise, just point up the reality of how instrumental promotions like DoW are in helping build game communities that meet the needs of all gamers... from discerning and measured clients like myself and Lopez all the way down to the milling herds, stampeding and mooing in a frenzied and angry rush to get it cheap, get it fast and get a better deal than the next guy!

I suggest that those of you who live in weak gaming regions of the country (or even Canada) think twice the next time a well-respected and quality publisher like DoW targets those communities who have collectively built a real gaming culture and created an atmosphere of affluence and acceptance for gamers of all stripes. Perhaps you can drop by your local store and educate that guy behind the counter? He/She/It might be grateful to learn about games like BattleLore and maybe you too can have a wholesome gaming environment that is based on something other than tread wear and the mile per gallon cost of getting a game or a pack of lunch meat back to your house.

Just a thought.
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qzhdad wrote:
kingbobb wrote:

The old model of producing a game, then producing another game, etc., is not viable. It depends too much on being able to continually produce games that sell, and bring in new players.
I bet Hans im Gluck, Ravensburger and Kosmos (ok, maybe not Kosmos ) as well as the host of smaller publishers are going to be distressed that their businesses are doomed.
Fine, way to shoot my theory full of holes. yuk

Although I'd say the games published by those you mention have a wider appeal than games like Battlelore. They don't have as much need to generate a continuing revenue stream as a smaller niche game would.
 
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I'm really amazed by all the people that live next door to an online retailer and can stop by the warehouse to pick stuff up.

Mike Z
 
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Scott Russell
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Octavian wrote:
One thing is certain...

...there appears to be no final word in sight.

-MMM
I was thinking the same thing last time I noticed the name of the thread!
 
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Wow...if you guys cared as much about healthcare reform, bettering education, abolishing the IRS, or the cleaning up the environment as you do about a meaningless board game company promotion, there might be some serious social reform happening. I mean, the level of passion and intensity this thing seems to generate could change the world. I'll trade you mine in exchange for the cure for cancer. Then I'll just proxy the damn thing with a $5 Reaper miniature and get the stats for it off the website. I'm really surprised someone has started with the same "this is illegal" foolisness that Roads and Boats giveaway started.
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Scott Russell
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Nope. One dealer has a better price. Since a radio actually has a price (usually included in the sticker) this is apples and oranges. Why. Well, because the Hill Giant doesn't have a price! It's... free! At selected retailers.
In this case, it's standard equipment for everything on Dealer A's lot. But dealer B can't get any delivered that include the radio.


Quote:
Adding in an arbitrary dollar amount for gas and wear&tear on a vehicle to go get a game is not only absurd, it's an early sign of mental illness.
Tell you what, DW, I'll have a shrink wrapped copy of (game of your choice with MSRP of less than $100) here. Tell me you're coming in the next couple weeks and I'll pick it up (from a storefront) and give it to you for free as long as you come to pick it up. Gas $0, wear and tear $0, game $0, time involved in driving $0, how can you go wrong?

I'll even buy the beer and maybe we can get a few games in. Just let me know what time to expect you.

Quote:
Either buy the damned thing locally and get the FREE HILL GIANT or buy it online and get a $25 discount.
I'm going with Door C. I'll pass and hope that DoW's next pre-order promotion is structured differently. I just got C&C:Ancients and haven't played it yet, so that should tide me over.
 
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crackedlcd81 wrote:
Wow...if you guys cared as much about healthcare reform, bettering education, abolishing the IRS, or the cleaning up the environment as you do about a meaningless board game company promotion, there might be some serious social reform happening.
I think most of those topics have been argues with as much passion, haven't they? Hopefully, this conversation will generate more change than those did....

Actually, I am not sure anyone argued about eliminating the IRS. I'm all for going to pure consumption tax basis.
 
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qzhdad wrote:
Tell you what, DW, I'll have a shrink wrapped copy of (game of your choice with MSRP of less than $100) here. Tell me you're coming in the next couple weeks and I'll pick it up (from a storefront) and give it to you for free as long as you come to pick it up. Gas $0, wear and tear $0, game $0, time involved in driving $0, how can you go wrong?

I'll even buy the beer and maybe we can get a few games in. Just let me know what time to expect you.
DoW isn't charging any extra to B&M stores for the HG.

Analogy: shot down.

Everything has operating costs. DoW is unrelated to these operating costs. They simply charge every store for their games, ship every store some games, and additionally ship B&M stores some HGs because they love em.

DoW is not charging extra or increasing operational costs. Your bitch is with B&M stores existing, not with DoW
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DOW is trying to shift customers away from a business that treats me well to a business that treats me poorly. I will not support them in their endeavor. It really is as simple as that.
Errr... where did you get the idea that DoW is trying to shift you away from any venue? You can still buy the game online at a significant discount. What DoW is doing with this promo is offering an in-store premium for gamers who "are local buyers". By doing this they get the game played in an open setting. It encourages sales to people who might not normally look at a big box game with a $70 price tag.

Games Workshop, Wizards of the Coast, Steve Jackson and a host of other companies have run similar marketing strategies for several decades. It works. It gets the retailer to get the game played. It gives a value added incentive. It has web-based and store-generated promotion behind it. In short, everybody wins.

When Games Workshop created a boxed army (usually in the $250-275 range) they include either a standard bearer or perhaps a command figure that is never offered for individual sale...ever. The only way to obtain the model is to purchase the whole army. GW rarely produces more than 1,000 or so of any given boxed army. As a store owner I heavily promoted these big ticket items and made lots of noise about the limited miniature. Yes, you could get the box from their online store... at full retail plus shipping, just like DoW is offering.

As for one of the local stores offering a discount... well, they are offering that to any pre-pay, not just me. Like I said, a gaming community happens because people act to make it so. If you don't have one then either it's not an issue for you or it's something you haven't created. Either way, it's not a publisher's obligation to make up for market areas that are pissy about their local stores or who only have lousy retailers... but it is their obligation to make any promotional item accessible for the unlucky few who have a weak gaming community. They have met that obligation, for sure.
 
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John Lopez
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Shryke wrote:

Maybe, just maybe, the reason we shop online is because we don't have any FLGS that's worth giving our buisness[sic] too.
Which is why I said "stores suck/don't exist". Apparently yours fall in the "sucks" category. Yet you keep then jumping the rails of logic and decrying the stores in total, when all I was saying was "your stores suck and two out of three of mine don't". Then I posited the theory that a community that shops locally encourages the creation and continued existence of such stores.

DoW has apparently subscribed to that theory as well. They are looking for the largest profit, and from the promotion they have assembled, it appears they think that profit will come from supporting local stores. You don't think so, but I'm usually willing to give a the guy who's neck is on the line (in this case: DoW's marketing guy) the benefit of the doubt as compared to the analysis of the disgruntled outliers who happens to be left out of the promotions' circle of happiness.
 
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