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Subject: BorderCon Maths Trade 2015 rss

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Dr. Dam
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Ok I really have left it late to get the BorderCon Math Trade up and running but it is something of a tradition and many attendees enjoy the chance to acquire some new titles and play them at the event...or upon returning home.

I will need much help however as I am a gumby in such matters.

I have had some offers of help already and will be sure to let them know of this thread and let us know of what they can do to help.

I will assist with the Math Trade Geeklist in any way I can but in that endeavour too I am limited as I have other elements of the event to manage and school reports to write that are always due the Friday of the con (damn thee dates)! angry

Any pledges of assistance are always greatly appreciated.

This thread is to discuss things such as dates and terms of the trade.
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Bruce Murphy
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I can run the trade tool and geeklist, trade list submissions, and even get the verifier up and running, although I'll be wanting to avoid any of the bordercon phases overlapping with the Sydney trade and I have some travel around that time which I need to avoid if I'm to stay responsive.

What I can't do is organise anything on the day or organise any exchanges because I won't actually be there.

If Bordercon is 5th June, we'd really want to get the trades finalised at least a week and a bit (maybe more) in advance.

How would these look as dates:

list opens ~ now.
items due by ~ May 4, codes published (SYD trade will be finalised by then)
wantlist due May 11,
results May 11/May 12.

earlier than we need, but this avoids hitting some upcoming travel of mine.
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Jon Bauer
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I'm happy to put some time in at a table if needed, no experience at it but more than happy to sort and find stock for people
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thepackrat wrote:

list opens ~ now.
items due by ~ May 4, codes published (SYD trade will be finalised by then)
wantlist due May 11,
results May 11/May 12.

earlier than we need, but this avoids hitting some upcoming travel of mine.

Cameron was brave enough to put his hand up first, so I think he should have a say - but these dates seem sensible.

I presume cash bids will be acceptable (it certainly seems to increase the number of transactions).

I am also happy to assist - we arrive on Thursday night.
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Bruce Murphy
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I propose that someone here take the rules I've written for the SYD only maths trade or the last CanCon one and start a discussion about what rules you want for Bordercon.

B>
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Rob Crosby
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Nope, nothing much here either, but thanks for looking :)
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Snowy0505 wrote:
I'm happy to put some time in at a table if needed, no experience at it but more than happy to sort and find stock for people

I'm the same as Jon... happy to put in a few hours at the table if that helps
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(silent) Bob Munroe
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I'm also happy to put my hand up & help at the event.
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Dr. Dam
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Ok these are the rules of the current Sydney trade -

*****

Australia Wide BorderCon-centered Marvopolis Math Trade

What this means is that you need to start thinking about how you're going to get your games to or from BorderCon right now. If you can't do either, you're going to be up for two directions of postage.

This is working in the same way that it did for CanCon earlier this year.

Here are the rules.

If you are sending a game you must do one of:

1. Take it BorderCon yourself.
2. Arranging in advance for someone to take it to BorderCon
(When we say to BorderCon, we mean 'to the Math Trade table in the main function room by 2pm on the Saturday')
3. Pay postage to the recipient yourself via whatever co-shipping arrangement you can.
4. Negotiate directly with the recipient in advance that something I haven't thought of takes place to your mutual benefit.

If you are receiving a game you must do one of:
1. Collect it from BorderCon yourself
2. Arranging in advance for a mule collect it from BorderCon
(When we say collect from BorderCon, we mean 'from the table in the main gaming room by 4pm on the Saturday')
3. Arranging in advance for some exceedingly nice 'Borderian' to collect them for you and send them to you at your cost.
4. Negotiate directly with the sender in advance that something I haven't thought of takes place to your mutual benefit.

Let's all try to be sensible!

All the usual AU maths trade rules apply (wiki links to follow).
0. Everyone should work together to make this no-ship trade work out for everyone getting their games in good order. Be up front about delays. Overcommunicate. Try to help other folks out. Seek help if you hit trouble.
1. Board games, card games, RPG games only. (I'm open to Video Games and board game accessories).
2. Combined items are fine
3. List condition in detail, note edition and try to make the picture match.
4. Cash items are fine, list a guide price. Anyone receiving cash is required to donate 3% to BGG.
5. Pre-trade buying is fine. Delete or otherwise clearly mark no longer available items before the deadline, submit an empty want-list after it.
6. Comments are great. Feel free. There's also a discussion thread.
7+8 there are no 7 or 8. Yet.
9. All want-list submissions should have gone through my want list verifier to ensure they are not malformed. I'm going to do it anyway, and the wantlist verifier will be less snarky about it.

Discussion thread here :
wiki link for much documentation: Aussie Maths Trade

Dates (all times in Sydney time)
Add items until 10pm May 4th
Final codes will be published by 10pm May 5th
Wantlists due by 10pm May 11th
Results posted 10:30pm May 12th.

Results are final and binding (last chance for newbie to scream) 11.30pm May 12th.

*****

I've struck things through that are not relevant

Things in Green are Updates (dates essentially).

Thoughts from anyone. Happy to have differing opinions?

list opens ~ now.
items due by ~ May 4, codes published (SYD trade will be finalised by then)
wantlist due May 11,
results May 11/May 12.
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Dr. Dam
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I guess the issues in green above worth discussing are (that I can think of) -

1) Is this a BorderCon only (no-ship) math trade or one that is still open to the whole country?

2) Do we allow non cardboard items in (video games)?

3) If the dates are correct.

4) How we manage the BorderCon end (in the past we have simply provided a drop-off point and people clearly labelled things and took what was theirs. The honesty principal has worked in the past but perhaps we need a better system with growing numbers).

5) Does Bruce need help with coding the various items and if so who does that?

Thoughts? Anything else I have missed?
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Bruce Murphy
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Some folks have historically helped out with generating trade codes, but I plan ot do that myself this Sydney trade to avoid some problems we saw last time, and if Iget that working, re-use it for the bordercon one.

Otherwise, I'll be asking for assistance from the regular helping out people for both.

B>

ps. Also sender pays. oooowwweeeeoooweeee. Careful that this doesn't mean people can say "I don't want to carry it, you pay postage". Perhaps something closer to my cancon rules where postage was always available as a fallback, and it was paid by the person who wasn't at bordercon?
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Paul Long
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I'm happy to help. I have some free time between now and BorderCon. I'm pretty green at maths trading, but happy to help out.

One thought about the shipping - If the BorderCon maths trade runs as Sender pays shipping, then it may give a comparison to the CanCon maths trade.

Thanks
Paul
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Bruce Murphy
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Befefig wrote:
I'm happy to help. I have some free time between now and BorderCon. I'm pretty green at maths trading, but happy to help out.

One thought about the shipping - If the BorderCon maths trade runs as Sender pays shipping, then it may give a comparison to the CanCon maths trade.

Thanks
Paul


An unnfavourable comparison!

CanCon ran as sender pays for years. This year we tried nailing it to CanCon so the bulk of things would be no shipping. I think that worked out okay.

B>
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Tim K
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Neil Thomson wrote:
I guess the issues in green above worth discussing are (that I can think of) -

1) Is this a BorderCon only (no-ship) math trade or one that is still open to the whole country?


I found the recent no ship math trade quite liberating. It meant I was able to ask for smaller games in my want lists without the fear of paying more for shipping my item than the value of the game I was getting. i.e. I was happy to trade a $20 game for another $20 game, but I wouldn't be happy paying $25 to ship my $20 game for another $20 game.
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Terry Furness
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I tend to agree with Bruce on this one. No ship, providing allowance for people to participate if they can't organize mules by accepting shipping costs worked well IMHO.

There is no way I would have put a coffin box game like Rune Wars in a ship anywhere math trade. In the end someone wanted it enough to cover the shipping cost (still felt bad for them). Accept shipping anywhere would mean I'd probably consider waiting for next no ship trade. Obviously, opinions will vary.
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Dr. Dam
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Ok the arguments sound compelling - let's go for no ship math trade but receiver can pay shipping if they win an item and can't attend BorderCon or organise a mule.

Modified in above draft rules. Let me know if I get the wording wrong.
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Dr. Dam
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Ok added the following to the draft above from the CanCon trade earlier this year -

***

Australia Wide BorderCon-centered Marvopolis Math Trade

What this means is that you need to start thinking about how you're going to get your games to or from BorderCon right now. If you can't do either, you're going to be up for two directions of postage.

This is working in the same way that it did for CanCon earlier this year.

Here are the rules.

If you are sending a game you must do one of:

1. Take it BorderCon yourself.
2. Arranging in advance for someone to take it to BorderCon
(When we say to BorderCon, we mean 'to the Math Trade table in the main function room by 2pm on the Saturday')
3. Pay postage to the recipient yourself via whatever co-shipping arrangement you can.
4. Negotiate directly with the recipient in advance that something I haven't thought of takes place to your mutual benefit.

If you are receiving a game you must do one of:
1. Collect it from BorderCon yourself
2. Arranging in advance for a mule collect it from BorderCon
(When we say collect from BorderCon, we mean 'from the table in the library by 4pm on the Saturday')
3. Arranging in advance for some exceedingly nice 'Borderian' to collect them for you and send them to you at your cost.
4. Negotiate directly with the sender in advance that something I haven't thought of takes place to your mutual benefit.

***

Did I get it right?
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(silent) Bob Munroe
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Neil Thomson wrote:

Did I get it right?


Sounds great...except for the typo as to where to leave/collect items from the table at BorderCon - should be the same place, yes? One is currently in the "the main function room" & one is "the library"...semantics, I know, but there's always someone who gets confused.
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Bruce Murphy
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As long as you get the day right, you should be fine making whatever edits you need to do with the final location of the trade thing. You can edit geeklist headers.

One thing I suggest is to get a burner prepaid SIM and an old phone and have someone near the table be contactable (With a list of everyone's phone number) who can sort out any little emergencies.

A burner phone means that it can be passed around to whomever is on duty, and there's just one number for people to contact.

B>
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Jon Bauer
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Looks good, lets get it up and going so we can escape the drama of facebook
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Solomon M. Green
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Re: BorderCon Maths Trade 2015 - Labels
All this is fine though some responsibility if not all needs to be sheeted back to the sender if basic labelling requirements are not met:

1) NO post it notes.
Put simply, they fall off and then it's all a mystery.

2) Sender Details:
- Real Name
- Contact phone #: mobile preferred
- BGG username

3) Mule details:
repeat for each mule involved in your delivery.
- Real Name
- Contact mobile phone #:
- BGG username if applicable
- Mule instructions, who and where does it go to next

4) Receiver Details:
- Real Name:
- Contact phone #: mobile preferred
- BGG Username

Any item not bearing full details on label remains the responsibility of the sender.

If this is done by the sender properly then everything else is easy without special needs for custom mobile phones and people hanging out on the side to make things happen. Repeated again, it's the senders responsibility to label correctly just as they would be required to do if choosing to donate their hard earns to AusPost to so they could lose it on their behalf.
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Bruce Murphy
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It turns out that even with the best of intentions, human stuff happens, and it's helpful to have a single point of contact that can pass things around. FOlks were less reticent to give contact details to a single central place to keep track of.

B>
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Bruce Murphy
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ALso, I reserve the right to veto people who have been problematic in previous trades from participating.

B>
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Solomon M. Green
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Re: BorderCon Maths Trade 2015 - power of veto
thepackrat wrote:
ALso, I reserve the right to veto people who have been problematic in previous trades from participating.

B>
Can I have an extension please ?
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Bruce Murphy
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Absolutely. I'm reserving a spot in the 2016 trade for you.

B>
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