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https://www.facebook.com/TreefrogGames/posts/102038285797278...
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Edward J Grug III wrote:
Better to post the non-walled garden version...

http://www.treefroggames.com/

UPDATED AS PER MARTIN'S UPDATE REMOVING REFERENCES TO FUNAGAIN

Quote:
Apparently Eagle Gryphon are planning to launch a deluxe edition of Brass on Kickstarter in July. There is one tiny issue with regards to this new version of the game, which is that Eagle Gryphon no longer have the rights to Brass.

To fully understand this issue it is necessary to take a little trip down Memory Lane.

Some of you will be aware that there is no love lost between myself and Rick Soued, the owner of Eagle Gryphon, FRED and Funagain. Rick was responsible for the theft of Age of Steam in 2009. This game was reprinted by FRED despite the fact that I had informed him that John Bohrer, who he signed the contract with, had no rights over the game. Bizarrely FRED then sued me over a contract I had agreed with Eagle (the old Eagle, before it went bankrupt) which they thought gave them the rights to Age of Steam. A close reading of the contract made it explicit that the rights to the original Age of Steam remained with myself and Warfrog. After my lawyer pointed this out to them they dropped the case. I still had to pay my lawyer for what in effect was a nuisance claim. At that point in time I did not have the money or energy to follow up the case. I decided that the best response was to get on with life and put the matter behind me. I think the point needs to be made that I receive no royalties for Age of Steam or any of the expansion maps and I have no contract with John Bohrer.

Prior to all of this unpleasantness I had signed a contract with FRED allowing them to reprint Brass. Sales of such games as Brass are not great, once you have met the initial demand there is usually very few on-going sales. I figured that FRED had sold all of the Brass they were ever likely to and left it at that. Last December I decided to go back and check whether FRED (or Eagle Gryphon, its all the same to me), had reprinted the game. As it turned out they had done so in 2013. They had not informed me of this, nor had they sent me royalty statements or royalties owed. I contacted FRED via there website, not knowing the best person to contact. Ralph Anderson got back to me and arranged for a statement and royalties to be paid. At the same time that I made this inquiry I also informed them that I wished to terminate the contract. The contract is very clear on this, after 2013 either party can give six months notice of termination as long as sales are below a certain amount, which was the case here.

Thus, I was a little surprised to see that FRED are intending to release a deluxe version of the game on Kickstarter. Even if I had not terminated the contract they are still bound to consult me about artwork, which they have not done. The major issue for me is that another company wishes to acquire the rights to the game. For Treefrog this is quite important, as we have a lot of games in production and not a lot of money in the bank. However, with FRED still claiming ownership of the game this other party is reluctant to get involved. So, I’m being done both ways, losing money from not being able to sell the rights to the game and having FRED continue to make money off of me without my consent.

I have emailed Ralph Anderson a number of times to try to clear this matter up without my going public. I have had no response, hence the present post. If Eagle Gryphon do go ahead with the Kickstarter I urge you not to subscribe. To do so would be giving money to a company which has repeatedly acted in an illegal manner. I will be contacting Kickstarter to inform them about this situation, with the aim of having the game removed from their site. I will also be seeking legal advice regarding Age of Steam.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post.

Martin Wallace
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Counting down to someone posting a gif of popcorn eating...
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woodnoggin wrote:
Counting down to someone posting a gif of popcorn eating...
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Edward J Grug III wrote:
woodnoggin wrote:
Counting down to someone posting a gif of popcorn eating...
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That's not a person, dummy.
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May as well not waste time with the Kickstarter then! This is just downright IP theft.
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Taegukki wrote:
May as well not waste time with the Kickstarter then! This is just downright IP theft.
exactly... Maybe Martin Wallace will do a treefrog line version of brass included on next year's subscription hint hint...
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The whole mess with Brass and Age of Steam is why I refuse to buy anything from Eagle, Fred, and Funagain. People roll their eyes when I tell them this but I don't care; they are a stain on this hobby.
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Unbelievable. Better to know both sides to this story, but seems like it is not a good idea to support the campaign.
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I like themes. I like stories. I like plastic. I like brutal co-ops. I am kickstarter's whipping boy. Come game with me!
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Thanks for the enlightening post - that's... a sorry state of affairs. I'm staying clear of this one, and dropped my backing of a current EGG kickstarter pledge too. This is not a way to do business, and therefore not a business I am keen to support any more.
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This is why we can't have nice things.
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This is very bad news, as much as I really want the new Brass, but I think I'm gonna be on Wallace's side on this one.
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Who knew that Eagles had such big, Brass you know whats?
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Yikes :-/
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but what does this mean for up front?
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This is the new Sophie's Choice on BGG: support Vital, a Martin Wallace successor, or support Martin. I don't know what to do.
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ohbalto wrote:
The whole mess with Brass and Age of Steam is why I refuse to buy anything from Eagle, Fred, and Funagain. People roll their eyes when I tell them this but I don't care; they are a stain on this hobby.
The Gallerist complicates this. I am a Vital Lacerda fan, and wish to back his game. Wish we could all get along and play nice.
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Both!
yes to "the gallerist" and no to "brass deluxe"
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framebrain wrote:
ohbalto wrote:
The whole mess with Brass and Age of Steam is why I refuse to buy anything from Eagle, Fred, and Funagain. People roll their eyes when I tell them this but I don't care; they are a stain on this hobby.
The Gallerist complicates this. I am a Vital Lacerda fan, and wish to back his game. Wish we could all get along and play nice.
This is close to where I fall too. At some point, enough smoke around EGG that it makes me want to dig deeper...Game Salute, Queen, & Eagle Gryphon....
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framebrain wrote:
ohbalto wrote:
The whole mess with Brass and Age of Steam is why I refuse to buy anything from Eagle, Fred, and Funagain. People roll their eyes when I tell them this but I don't care; they are a stain on this hobby.
The Gallerist complicates this. I am a Vital Lacerda fan, and wish to back his game. Wish we could all get along and play nice.
Maybe there is another non-english publisher for this? The game is language independent so I don't see a problem getting a non-english copy.
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the irony of this is amazing.

Wallace claims that Eagle/Gryphon operates by bullying people with empty threats, while simultaneously posting allegations and blatantly telling everyone not to give them their money. (i.e. bullying people with empty threats)

Just look at the Moongha Invaders kickstarter to see how Martin Wallace operates. (No need to discuss it here in detail, its done to death on that game page)

Let me make myself clear, I love Wallace's designs and only want the best for him. But, that post is wholly inappropriate. If he has a claim he should let his lawyers handle it. Publicly bashing, and naming, the producers involved, and asking the community not to support the company, with unsupported allegations is simply unprofessional.

Do what you will if a Brass Kickstarter is launched. Back it or don't back it, its up to you. But by all means do not, based on a single ranting post, do harm to another brilliant designer, Vital Lacerda, or deny all of us another one of his brilliant designs.

-One Wolf
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There is no harm in supporting one product over another... let the Tarnished Brass reboot die on the vine, while rewarding a good designer of The Gallerist.

framebrain wrote:
ohbalto wrote:
The whole mess with Brass and Age of Steam is why I refuse to buy anything from Eagle, Fred, and Funagain. People roll their eyes when I tell them this but I don't care; they are a stain on this hobby.
The Gallerist complicates this. I am a Vital Lacerda fan, and wish to back his game. Wish we could all get along and play nice.
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rbayu2 wrote:
framebrain wrote:
ohbalto wrote:
The whole mess with Brass and Age of Steam is why I refuse to buy anything from Eagle, Fred, and Funagain. People roll their eyes when I tell them this but I don't care; they are a stain on this hobby.
The Gallerist complicates this. I am a Vital Lacerda fan, and wish to back his game. Wish we could all get along and play nice.
Maybe there is another non-english publisher for this? The game is language independent so I don't see a problem getting a non-english copy.
I am very sorry to see that Martin has reverted to his unfortunate habit of publicly writing misinformation about matters that should be handled privately.

This happened so much in 2009, that I felt it necessary to establish:

http://fredwallacelawsuitinfo.com/



This website still exists and its information is as valid today as it was in 2009. EDIT: If you really are interested in knowing the real facts, there are lots here, and I recommend reading them in their entirety before you form your opinions.

However, I have since learned that it is best to settle these matters privately and legally, if need be, without writing about them publicly.

So I will only say this. Martin’s accusations are entirely without factual basis. Eagle Games has an entirely valid and up-to-date contract with Martin for the publication rights to Brass and he is well aware of that. There are far more appropriate ways than the one he has once again chosen for the facts to be established and the parties involved to resolve issues between them.

Rick Soued, CEO, Eagle-Gryphon Games
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FoxNewsification at its best - muddying the waters by attacking the messenger.

Martin Wallace is exercising his right to inform the potential backers of what is going on... can you think of anyone else with the rights and motivation to do it? Would you think him a weasel if he had someone else undertake a whisper campaign?

This reboot is dead in the water.

One_Wolf wrote:
the irony of this is amazing.

Wallace claims that Eagle/Gryphon operates by bullying people with empty threats, while simultaneously posting allegations and blatantly telling everyone not to give them their money. (i.e. bullying people with empty threats)

Just look at the Moongha Invaders kickstarter to see how Martin Wallace operates. (No need to discuss it here in detail, its done to death on that game page)

Let me make myself clear, I love Wallace's designs and only want the best for him. But, that post is wholly inappropriate. If he has a claim he should let his lawyers handle it. Publicly bashing, and naming, the producers involved, and asking the community not to support the company, with unsupported allegations is simply unprofessional.

Do what you will if a Brass Kickstarter is launched. Back it or don't back it, its up to you. But by all means do not, based on a single ranting post, do harm to another brilliant designer, Vital Lacerda, or deny all of us another one of his brilliant designs.

-One Wolf
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Show the contract and this should be easily settled.

ricks wrote:
rbayu2 wrote:
framebrain wrote:
ohbalto wrote:
The whole mess with Brass and Age of Steam is why I refuse to buy anything from Eagle, Fred, and Funagain. People roll their eyes when I tell them this but I don't care; they are a stain on this hobby.
The Gallerist complicates this. I am a Vital Lacerda fan, and wish to back his game. Wish we could all get along and play nice.
Maybe there is another non-english publisher for this? The game is language independent so I don't see a problem getting a non-english copy.
I am very sorry to see that Martin has reverted to his unfortunate habit of publicly writing misinformation about matters that should be handled privately.

This happened so much in 2009, that I felt it necessary to establish:

FREDWallaceLawsuitInfo.Com

This website still exists and its information is as valid today as it was in 2009.

However, I have since learned that it is best to settle these matters privately and legally, if need be, without writing about them publicly.

So I will only say this. Martin’s accusations are entirely without factual basis. Eagle Games has an entirely valid and up-to-date contract with Martin for Brass and he is well aware of that. There are far more appropriate ways than the one he has once again chosen for the facts to be established and the parties involved to resolve issues between them.

Rick Soued, CEO, Eagle-Gryphon Games
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