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Subject: Donald X.: The contract expires if they haven't published the expansion by June 30 2015 rss

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John T
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LATEST UPDATE 25/6

Looks like the marshlands expansion will be stalled. To all you backers, please remove your pledges now in the event Queen Games persist to continuing the campaign.

donaldx wrote:
Update!

Queen has been making an effort to work out just how much exactly they owe me for 2014, in a completely friendly fashion, and has paid most of it. That isn't the kind of thing I would normally be reporting on, but people may have guessed otherwise when the kickstarter went down.

The kickstarter will be going down. I couldn't see myself signing a new contract for it. I feel like I have said enough on the topic to make it clear what my reasoning was and it's not the kind of thing I want to endlessly discuss on BGG.

I am optimistic that the expansion may be published someday, but I would not be expecting it this year.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Original post:

From Donald X., the designer of kingdom builder,
"The contract expires if they haven't published the expansion by June 30 2015, and given that they haven't paid me yet for 2014, I'm not feeling inclined to give them more time. But I mean, who knows, maybe they will quickly get a German copy on a store shelf somewhere."


To people who are kickstarting the Marshlands expansion, please beware that they might not be able to fulfil your pledges.


edit:
A response came through on the Kickstarter page's comments section

Queen Games
@ Ray R: as far as I know we are in contact with Donald to reslove the issue.
Jo

~~~

Update: 20th June
donaldx wrote:

That post, or maybe the crosspost to the kickstarter, appears to have motivated them; they are very apologetic and in fact have offered to pay me an advance on next year's royalties. And they fixed the royalty statement to include the missing stuff (also there was missing stuff on the royalty statement, but that could totally be an honest mistake; RGG for example recently accidentally overpaid me for online Dominion, in one of their quarterly payments).

So next year they could be just as late but a hunk of it would be early instead. What about the year after that, you may be saying. It's a question isn't it.

I haven't signed a new contract yet; it seems only prudent to wait to see if the money shows up before making any rash decisions.

Obv. the expansion's existence depends on this; I mean if you ever want the expansion and I want to be nice to fans of KB, I should give them an extension. They have of course helpfully pointed this out.


~~~~~

mfaulk80 wrote:
As astrostasis said, it's not just Donald...

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/19557596#19557596

[q="BaBang"]On Reddit...

http://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/3adts6/queen_gam...

Quote:
Sen-Foong Lim and I have not been paid by Queen for 2014 - for our game, Tortuga (which didn't sell 1/10th of what Kingdom Builder probably sold - but still). Queen pays once per year - which is way less frequent than every other publisher we deal with (usually twice per year or once per quarter). Then they have 90 days after the end of the year to pay up - which means March 31st. It's now June 19th and we still haven't been paid. We've sent them numerous emails - with hardly any responses.

Now they say they are trying to deposit the money into our bank accounts (they don't send checks for some odd reason) - and when a European company tries to deposit into a North American bank - it is not so straight forward. When we got our advance we had some issues with the information that they needed - and there was a lot of back and forth - but eventually we got our advance.

Now they're claiming that the bank info we gave them is not working. This seems shady since they have already used our bank info to give us our advance - and nothing has changed on our end (I even double checked with my bank). So it's been a couple weeks since their last email and I'm getting quite frustrated. I'm glad Donald expressed his frustration and I hope karma happens...(and we get paid!)!
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Clyde W
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Who knows? Maybe Queen thinks collecting KS money on June 30 is synonymous with publishing the expansion..?
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Carthoris Pyramidos
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Whoa.
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Matt E
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clydeiii wrote:
Who knows? Maybe Queen thinks collecting KS money on June 30 is synonymous with publishing the expansion..?

It's possible they need that money to pay him. I have no idea.
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Clyde W
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LastFootnote wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Who knows? Maybe Queen thinks collecting KS money on June 30 is synonymous with publishing the expansion..?

It's possible they need that money to pay him. I have no idea.
What happened to the $160,000 they collected from last year's Kingdom Builder Kickstarter?
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Clyde W
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Either way, we should probably be telling the people via KS comments to be warned, they're the people most likely to get burned here.
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Hans Moleman
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I believe you -- but any link to verify the quote???

Saw it.
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John T
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KingD21 wrote:
I believe you -- but any link to verify the quote???


https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1387830/kingdom-builder-mar...

see post #16
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Clyde W
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KingD21 wrote:
I believe you -- but any link to verify the quote???
Re: Kingdom Builder: Marshlands Stealth Announced

donaldx wrote:
jasonR32 wrote:
FYI, this is on Kickstarter now.


The contract expires if they haven't published the expansion by June 30 2015, and given that they haven't paid me yet for 2014, I'm not feeling inclined to give them more time. But I mean, who knows, maybe they will quickly get a German copy on a store shelf somewhere.
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John T
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A reply from QG on KS:

@ Ray R: as far as I know we are in contact with Donald to reslove the issue.
Jo
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Will Brasher
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johnneh wrote:
A reply from QG on KS:

@ Ray R: as far as I know we are in contact with Donald to reslove the issue.
Jo


Reslove... sounds like some kind of Lawnmower Man thing... The movie that is... ewwwww.
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Mathue Faulk
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johnneh wrote:
A reply from QG on KS:

@ Ray R: as far as I know we are in contact with Donald to reslove the issue.
Jo

Even if they pay him, it doesn't mean that Donald will give his permission to extend the publishing deadline. Seems a little premature for QG to start this Kickstarter...
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John T
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mfaulk80 wrote:
johnneh wrote:
A reply from QG on KS:

@ Ray R: as far as I know we are in contact with Donald to reslove the issue.
Jo

Even if they pay him, it doesn't mean that Donald will give his permission to extend the publishing deadline. Seems a little premature for QG to start this Kickstarter...


If they can work out a deal and Donald expresses his intent to continue the publication, I'll keep my pledge.
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What kinds of messed up does your company have to be NOT to iron out legal problems like this BEFORE starting the kickstarter campaign.

Seriously.
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Andreas Krüger
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Tzer wrote:
What kinds of messed up does your company have to be NOT to iron out legal problems like this BEFORE starting the kickstarter campaign.

Seriously.


I guess they will argue that kickstarting = publishing. And I am not sure how much legal recourse someone could have against them. Everybody already hates Queen, so there is nothing to lose in that regard.
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:

I guess they will argue that kickstarting = publishing. And I am not sure how much legal recourse someone could have against them. Everybody already hates Queen, so there is nothing to lose in that regard.


I wonder how they will argue not having paid Donald X for the entirety of 2014.

That, and their kickstarters are apparently still successfull enough to keep going.
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Chuck Harrison
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Tzer wrote:

That, and their kickstarters are apparently still successfull enough to keep going.

I wouldn't really regard a continual reliance on Kickstarter as a sign of a healthy company.
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John T
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Tineren wrote:
Tzer wrote:

That, and their kickstarters are apparently still successfull enough to keep going.

I wouldn't really regard a continual reliance on Kickstarter as a sign of a healthy company.


Not if your company is CMON
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Andreas Krüger
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Tineren wrote:
Tzer wrote:

That, and their kickstarters are apparently still successfull enough to keep going.

I wouldn't really regard a continual reliance on Kickstarter as a sign of a healthy company.


This is really not a sign of anything. Kickstarter does something for them - basically setting up a preorder system with payment in advance - and they pay for this service. There are good reasons to do it from the perspective of a small German based company trying to sell product in the US.

Their poor customer service, declining quality and difficult business practices regarding retailers are more an indicator of a busines model that is less sustainable than they thought.
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Eric Nolan
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
Everybody already hates Queen, so there is nothing to lose in that regard.


That's not the case. I have never had any problem with QG or any of their games and I very much doubt the majority of their customers or gamers in general hate them.

However this news is certainly making me question their business practices. Hopefully everything is clarified and resolved quickly, meaning before they take peoples money. I would consider it very unethical to allow the Kickstarter to complete if they are unsure whether DXV will allow them to publish the expansion.
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Kristo Vaher
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I am never going to have any Queen Games products on my shelves, no matter what the game.
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Paul Sauberer
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Tzer wrote:
What kinds of messed up does your company have to be NOT to iron out legal problems like this BEFORE starting the kickstarter campaign.

Seriously.


Ask Valley/Radiant Games.
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Mark Palframan
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I hope it gets resolved. I'm not part of the KS, but I've talked about the issue on my humble blog, so hopefully that will raise a (tiny) bit of awareness.
 
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This was also revealed from the creators of Tortuga

VIA @bamboozlebros - "@NakedMeeple Wow. @SenFoongLim and I haven't been paid by Queen yet either for our game, Tortuga. Very frustrating."
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