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Subject: Donald X.: The contract expires if they haven't published the expansion by June 30 2015 rss

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Adam P
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Tzer wrote:
Donald, couldn't the old contract be considered void due to them not living up to their end of the deal (nonpayment), enabling you to take the expansion to a different publisher?
My guess: Depends on the lawyer's fees and how much Donald stands to lose/gain bringing it to someone else. Queen still stands the best grounds for capitalizing on the brand.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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Since the only way to get this expansion and the other one already designed is through Queen, I am going to keep my pledge to it and encourage others to do the same. Hopefully Queen will do what it has said and will pay Donald the money due him and the advanced on next year and the hugely popular turnout for this kickstarter will serve as a reminder why it is a good business decision along with the morally proper thing to do.
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Clyde W
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Not touching this KS with a ten foot pole. Sure, I'd like that Island Queenie as much as Rick, but this isn't a no brainier for me, despite KB being one of my favs.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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clydeiii wrote:
Not touching this KS with a ten foot poll. Sure, I'd like that Island Queenie as much as Rick, but this isn't a no brainier for me, despite KB being one of my favs.
I understand the sentiment and wouldn't blame anyone for feeling that way. But I have to ask who this stance is hurting really? Queen has already received eight times what it asked for in funding. We hope that Donald will, at some point, get his share of the funding either by Queen doing the right thing or in court. Since the option is either Queen's version of the expansion or no expansion, I am hoping it goes forward and Donald gives his approval for a new contract for it and we can all enjoy what appears to be a great addition to a great game.
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Clyde W
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While I'm not certain about the consequences of not backing the KS now, I know that I can always buy this at retail, the Queenie will definitely be offered again at some point, and in the meantime, we should all go out and buy games from publishers who pay their designers.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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clydeiii wrote:
While I'm not certain about the consequences of not backing the KS now, I know that I can always buy this at retail, the Queenie will definitely be offered again at some point, and in the meantime, we should all go out and buy games from publishers who pay their designers.
Which by Monday could include Queen games. This also assumes that every designer who doesn't get paid on time lets everyone know about it. Otherwise you could be buying from companies who are guilty of the same thing and not know it.
 
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Clyde W
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rickert wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
While I'm not certain about the consequences of not backing the KS now, I know that I can always buy this at retail, the Queenie will definitely be offered again at some point, and in the meantime, we should all go out and buy games from publishers who pay their designers.
Which by Monday could include Queen games. This also assumes that every designer who doesn't get paid on time lets everyone know about it. Otherwise you could be buying from companies who are guilty of the same thing and not know it.
Sure, only after they're forced to. Doing the right thing under pressure isn't actually doing the right thing.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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clydeiii wrote:
rickert wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
While I'm not certain about the consequences of not backing the KS now, I know that I can always buy this at retail, the Queenie will definitely be offered again at some point, and in the meantime, we should all go out and buy games from publishers who pay their designers.
Which by Monday could include Queen games. This also assumes that every designer who doesn't get paid on time lets everyone know about it. Otherwise you could be buying from companies who are guilty of the same thing and not know it.
Sure, only after they're forced to. Doing the right thing under pressure isn't actually doing the right thing.
So paying your taxes isn't doing the right thing because you are pressured to do it? Don't understand this thinking at all. In a perfect world everyone is pure at heart and does everything because it is the right thing to do. That's not the world in which I live. I will be happy that Donald gets paid no matter what it took to get him paid.
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Shawn Garbett
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Tzer wrote:
Donald, couldn't the old contract be considered void due to them not living up to their end of the deal (nonpayment), enabling you to take the expansion to a different publisher?
Only after a good faith collection effort, an attempt at negotiating, and a costly hearing before a judge. I'm not a lawyer, but I've been a side party in some contracts being broken.
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Shawna
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rickert wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
rickert wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
While I'm not certain about the consequences of not backing the KS now, I know that I can always buy this at retail, the Queenie will definitely be offered again at some point, and in the meantime, we should all go out and buy games from publishers who pay their designers.
Which by Monday could include Queen games. This also assumes that every designer who doesn't get paid on time lets everyone know about it. Otherwise you could be buying from companies who are guilty of the same thing and not know it.
Sure, only after they're forced to. Doing the right thing under pressure isn't actually doing the right thing.
So paying your taxes isn't doing the right thing because you are pressured to do it? Don't understand this thinking at all. In a perfect world everyone is pure at heart and does everything because it is the right thing to do. That's not the world in which I live. I will be happy that Donald gets paid no matter what it took to get him paid.
Paying your taxes on time is the right thing to do.
Paying your taxes months later when the IRS says they are going to come and take your boat if you do not is a different thing. Especially if you put said boat up for sale a couple weeks before they have said they might confiscate it.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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shawnad2006 wrote:
rickert wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
rickert wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
While I'm not certain about the consequences of not backing the KS now, I know that I can always buy this at retail, the Queenie will definitely be offered again at some point, and in the meantime, we should all go out and buy games from publishers who pay their designers.
Which by Monday could include Queen games. This also assumes that every designer who doesn't get paid on time lets everyone know about it. Otherwise you could be buying from companies who are guilty of the same thing and not know it.
Sure, only after they're forced to. Doing the right thing under pressure isn't actually doing the right thing.
So paying your taxes isn't doing the right thing because you are pressured to do it? Don't understand this thinking at all. In a perfect world everyone is pure at heart and does everything because it is the right thing to do. That's not the world in which I live. I will be happy that Donald gets paid no matter what it took to get him paid.
Paying your taxes on time is the right thing to do.
Paying your taxes months later when the IRS says they are going to come and take your boat if you do not is a different thing. Especially if you put said boat up for sale a couple weeks before they have said they might confiscate it.
And certainly no law abiding citizen has ever filed for an extension to pay taxes. But that's completely not the point. The passage I quoted only said that doing something under pressure isn't doing the right thing. I disagreed. You didn't address the issue at all.
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Daniel Kearns
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I just want to say thanks to DXV for sharing details about this situation.

I feel they are very important and often not talked about.

As kickstarters are increasingly used to transfer risk to consumers, I feel it is critical that consumers (and designers) have such information to make an informed choice.

Thank you!
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Andreas Krüger
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CyberGarp wrote:
Tzer wrote:
Donald, couldn't the old contract be considered void due to them not living up to their end of the deal (nonpayment), enabling you to take the expansion to a different publisher?
Only after a good faith collection effort, an attempt at negotiating, and a costly hearing before a judge. I'm not a lawyer, but I've been a side party in some contracts being broken.
Works a bit different here, but the effort is more or less the same. Plus Donald is in the US, so he may need to hire a German lawyer *and* a US lawyer.
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Clyde W
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Not to get all conspiratorial here, but I also wonder where is BGG News in all of this?

And is it any coincidence that Nikki of QG-US is the same Nikki that is on Board Game Night, which is BGG's official board game show?
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Clyde W
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rickert wrote:

And certainly no law abiding citizen has ever filed for an extension to pay taxes. But that's completely not the point. The passage I quoted only said that doing something under pressure isn't doing the right thing. I disagreed. You didn't address the issue at all.
To be fair, Queen didn't file for an extension. And when Donald contacted them, they didn't respond. It's like the IRS came to your home and you didn't answer your door. 8 times. And then you only open your door when your customers, who you're begging money from, demand you to.

That definitely isn't right.
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James Cheevers
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I guess the big question is what does this mean for Queen's 'Up Front' reprint?? devil
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Rick Teverbaugh
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clydeiii wrote:
rickert wrote:

And certainly no law abiding citizen has ever filed for an extension to pay taxes. But that's completely not the point. The passage I quoted only said that doing something under pressure isn't doing the right thing. I disagreed. You didn't address the issue at all.
To be fair, Queen didn't file for an extension. And when Donald contacted them, they didn't respond. It's like the IRS came to your home and you didn't answer your door. 8 times. And then you only open your door when your customers, who you're begging money from, demand you to.

That definitely isn't right.
To be really fair, they didn't need to file yet as far as the expansion goes since the contract isn't up yet.
 
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Shawna
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rickert wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
rickert wrote:

And certainly no law abiding citizen has ever filed for an extension to pay taxes. But that's completely not the point. The passage I quoted only said that doing something under pressure isn't doing the right thing. I disagreed. You didn't address the issue at all.
To be fair, Queen didn't file for an extension. And when Donald contacted them, they didn't respond. It's like the IRS came to your home and you didn't answer your door. 8 times. And then you only open your door when your customers, who you're begging money from, demand you to.

That definitely isn't right.
To be really fair, they didn't need to file yet as far as the expansion goes since the contract isn't up yet.
shake

He's saying they didn't file for an extension in regards to the payment they owed Donald. And apparently numerous other designers.
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Clyde W
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Donald X has clearly addled all of our brains.
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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shawnad2006 wrote:
rickert wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
rickert wrote:

And certainly no law abiding citizen has ever filed for an extension to pay taxes. But that's completely not the point. The passage I quoted only said that doing something under pressure isn't doing the right thing. I disagreed. You didn't address the issue at all.
To be fair, Queen didn't file for an extension. And when Donald contacted them, they didn't respond. It's like the IRS came to your home and you didn't answer your door. 8 times. And then you only open your door when your customers, who you're begging money from, demand you to.

That definitely isn't right.
To be really fair, they didn't need to file yet as far as the expansion goes since the contract isn't up yet.
shake

He's saying they didn't file for an extension in regards to the payment they owed Donald. And apparently numerous other designers.
And I'm sayingsoblue And...
 
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Steve Ames
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rickert wrote:


To be really fair, they didn't need to file yet as far as the expansion goes since the contract isn't up yet.
Riiiiight, why ask for an extension on the contract that requires the game to already be published by a certain date when that's the date that you can just start collecting the funds to START publishing the game. You don't NEED to ask for an extension, just collect everyone's money and make the designer look like the bad guy when the game doesn't get made. Then claim that you tried to make the game to the best of your ability, but circumstances beyond your control made that impossible and the money is as good as spent when backers try to get it back. And I can't imagine the hassle, if it's even possible, to go after a company based in Germany from another country if backers try to force the issue.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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WeaponXI wrote:
rickert wrote:


To be really fair, they didn't need to file yet as far as the expansion goes since the contract isn't up yet.
Riiiiight, why ask for an extension on the contract that requires the game to already be published by a certain date when that's the date that you can just start collecting the funds to START publishing the game. You don't NEED to ask for an extension, just collect everyone's money and make the designer look like the bad guy when the game doesn't get made. Then claim that you tried to make the game to the best of your ability, but circumstances beyond your control made that impossible and the money is as good as spent when backers try to get it back. And I can't imagine the hassle, if it's even possible, to go after a company based in Germany from another country if backers try to force the issue.
Never let facts spoil a good yarn. That was a reaaaaaaaaaaaaly good story.
 
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Clyde W
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Rick, seriously, if you are such a huge DXV fan, why are you defending the company that has been ignoring his requests for payments for the past three months?
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Steve Ames
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because he likes ignoring the fact that the company is going to take people's money when the day after that process starts they can't legally deliver the game. To him, that's fair, because after all, they did have the contract up to that point. And it must also be fair to him that the company didn't and still hasn't, last I checked, disclose that fact in their risks statement. I mean why tell the people investing in your venture that you can't legally make the product the day after the campaign ends?
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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clydeiii wrote:
Rick, seriously, if you are such a huge DXV fan, why are you defending the company that has been ignoring his requests for payments for the past three months?
Because I believe the boycott of the kickstarter does nothing to get Donald his money. Hopefully that will come on Monday. I want him to get his money. I am not into cosmetic protests. If he doesn't get paid, then he has legal remedies and can stop the expansion from being produced.

If I campaign to have everyone on the planet never buy another Queen game, how does that help Donald get his money? Perhaps four or five years from now, after Queen goes bankrupt, he could get the rights to his game back, he could find another publisher and then a new version of the game (not compatible with the current one) could be made. But he still wouldn't get more than a fraction of the money owed to him now. I prefer to let Donald handle his own finances as best he can and I will continue to do what I have done since I first played Dominion - support his games by purchasing them, playing them and encouraging others to do the same.
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