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Subject: Donald X.: The contract expires if they haven't published the expansion by June 30 2015 rss

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Rick Teverbaugh
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WeaponXI wrote:
because he likes ignoring the fact that the company is going to take people's money when the day after that process starts they can't legally deliver the game. To him, that's fair, because after all, they did have the contract up to that point. And it must also be fair to him that the company didn't and still hasn't, last I checked, disclose that fact in their risks statement. I mean why tell the people investing in your venture that you can't legally make the product the day after the campaign ends?
Because you like to ignore the fact that if Queen doesn't do these expansions, then Donald will never get paid for the work he did creating these two expansions because they will never get made. I'd rather support the creation of the expansions and hope that the financial details get worked out. It seems to me that the money Queen sees the potential to make from this expansion, the more sense it makes to pay Donald what is owed to help pursuade him to sign a new contract and let them publish it.
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Clyde W
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That's all well and good. I'm just surprised you're comparing Queen's actions to people not wanting to pay taxes is all. That is a defense of Queen and I frankly don't understand it.
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Kolby Reddish
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adamredwoods wrote:
Tzer wrote:
Donald, couldn't the old contract be considered void due to them not living up to their end of the deal (nonpayment), enabling you to take the expansion to a different publisher?
My guess: Depends on the lawyer's fees and how much Donald stands to lose/gain bringing it to someone else. Queen still stands the best grounds for capitalizing on the brand.
Research the Doctrine of Adequte Assurances. It may provide a relatively simple legal remedy for someone in this type of position.

Contract law does depend upon the exact wording of the contract though, do that may spoil things.

I'm not a lawyer (yet) and this isn't legal advice, simply an abstract concept that may apply.
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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clydeiii wrote:
That's all well and good. I'm just surprised you're comparing Queen's actions to people not wanting to pay taxes is all. That is a defense of Queen and I frankly don't understand it.
You seem to believe that supporting the kiickstarter is the same as supporting a company not paying its designers. It doesn't mean that to me so it isn't a defense of Queen. I see it as a support for one of Donald's designs instead. I can't help it that he chose to have Queen publish this great game. I own no other Queen games. The only Donald-created game I know of that I don't own is Greed and some of the reason is because of the company that publishes it, but the other is that I didn't like the theme and wasn't sold on the mechanics.
 
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Clyde W
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Oh, sorry. Just seemed like the comapaison to paying taxes was a defense of Queen, is all.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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clydeiii wrote:
Oh, sorry. Just seemed like the comapaison to paying taxes was a defense of Queen, is all.
I didn't mean for it to. But I do think there are reasons (justified or not) why people don't pay their taxes on time and why companies may not pay employees on time.
 
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reddish22 wrote:
Research the Doctrine of Adequte Assurances
What's that in German?
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reddish22 wrote:
Doctrine of Adequte Assurances
Could you explain this to a layman? I did some googling, but the various articles are all in legal terminology. My interpretation of it is, if you're in a contract that is not being upheld appropriately you can demand 'adequate assurance' from the other party (which is basically a good intentioned effort to uphold the contract) and if this demand isn't met in a timely manner then the contract is broken. That's what I think I read, at least.

So if Queen still doesn't pay Donald, Donald can demand 'adequate assurance', and then if they still don't even try to pay him, he can have the contract cancelled and shop KB to some other publisher somewhere else. I think. Maybe.
 
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Jurisdiction?
 
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Andreas Krüger
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enoon wrote:
Jurisdiction?
I am also assuming that German jurisdiction applies, however, we cannot be sure. Nobody knows the contract, except Donald and Queen. Maybe Donald licensed the game to Queen Games Hong Kong ltd. ;-) who then passed it on to Queen in Germany.

(And since nobody knows the contract, we have no idea what Donald or Queen have negotiated. For example, I have no idea when exactly a game is "published" - a term which seems to be quite significant here.)
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Exactly.

This is all a factless debate. By far the easiest type to express an opinion in ...

Personally I find the prurient interest unappealing.
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enoon wrote:
Exactly.

This is all a factless debate. By far the easiest type to express an opinion in ...

Personally I find the prurient interest unappealing.
I mean, all of the posts by DXV are fact-based and interesting. All of the non-posts by Queen games are interesting. Everything else? Eh.

Also, I don't think there's anything sexual in nature going on here, am I? Unless "kingdom" is a euphemism or something..?
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Kolby Reddish
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Khift wrote:
reddish22 wrote:
Doctrine of Adequte Assurances
Could you explain this to a layman? I did some googling, but the various articles are all in legal terminology. My interpretation of it is, if you're in a contract that is not being upheld appropriately you can demand 'adequate assurance' from the other party (which is basically a good intentioned effort to uphold the contract) and if this demand isn't met in a timely manner then the contract is broken. That's what I think I read, at least.

So if Queen still doesn't pay Donald, Donald can demand 'adequate assurance', and then if they still don't even try to pay him, he can have the contract cancelled and shop KB to some other publisher somewhere else. I think. Maybe.
You pretty much nailed it on the head in layman terms. Basically there are different degrees of "breach." Adequate assurances have to be reasonable. With late payment to the degree it sounds like in this case, demanding payment would be reasonable (IMO).

So I could see demand for payment. Failure to pay would void the contract as if it never existed, allowing for a new company to publish.
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Kolby Reddish
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enoon wrote:
reddish22 wrote:
Research the Doctrine of Adequte Assurances
What's that in German?
The rest of the world besides the U.S. and the UK have much different laws, they are Civil Law systems versus Common Law.
However, jurisdiction is not exclusive. Depending on who initiated the contact, it may lean one way or the other, but I doubt it(meaning it's probably be subject in the US and Germany).
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clydeiii wrote:
Not touching this KS with a ten foot poll.
Out of curiosity, what would the poll questions be to comprise ten feet?
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bobcatpoet wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Not touching this KS with a ten foot poll.
Out of curiosity, what would the poll questions be to comprise ten feet?
A ten foot poll is a poll for foot fetishists. #rsp? #toosoon
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rickert wrote:
shawnad2006 wrote:
rickert wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
rickert wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
While I'm not certain about the consequences of not backing the KS now, I know that I can always buy this at retail, the Queenie will definitely be offered again at some point, and in the meantime, we should all go out and buy games from publishers who pay their designers.
Which by Monday could include Queen games. This also assumes that every designer who doesn't get paid on time lets everyone know about it. Otherwise you could be buying from companies who are guilty of the same thing and not know it.
Sure, only after they're forced to. Doing the right thing under pressure isn't actually doing the right thing.
So paying your taxes isn't doing the right thing because you are pressured to do it? Don't understand this thinking at all. In a perfect world everyone is pure at heart and does everything because it is the right thing to do. That's not the world in which I live. I will be happy that Donald gets paid no matter what it took to get him paid.
Paying your taxes on time is the right thing to do.
Paying your taxes months later when the IRS says they are going to come and take your boat if you do not is a different thing. Especially if you put said boat up for sale a couple weeks before they have said they might confiscate it.
And certainly no law abiding citizen has ever filed for an extension to pay taxes. But that's completely not the point. The passage I quoted only said that doing something under pressure isn't doing the right thing. I disagreed. You didn't address the issue at all.
My understanding is that you can't really file an extension to pay your taxes, just to file your taxes. You still have to pay your taxes on time or you will have to pay interest and, potentially, penalties.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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That's not my understanding. My understanding is that both are possible. But thanks for the nit.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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You can get extensions to pay taxes. They put you on a payment plan of some sort....

 
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mfaulk80 wrote:
You can get extensions to pay taxes. They put you on a payment plan of some sort....
Sure, you can get on a payment plan, but you'll be paying interest. There is a hardship claim that can be filed that will allow the waiving of interest, but that's not what is usually referred to as a tax extension. Does anyone know if the publisher is claiming inability to pay?

I just thought this was pertinent, as someone seemed to be using this as an excuse for paying the designer late without being criticized/penalized, while seeming to imply that taxpayers somehow got away with this practice.
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slothrob wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
You can get extensions to pay taxes. They put you on a payment plan of some sort....
Sure, you can get on a payment plan, but you'll be paying interest. There is a hardship claim that can be filed that will allow the waiving of interest, but that's not what is usually referred to as a tax extension. Does anyone know if the publisher is claiming inability to pay?

I just thought this was pertinent, as someone seemed to be using this as an excuse for paying the designer late without being criticized/penalized, while seeming to imply that taxpayers somehow got away with this practice.
Yeah, I disagree with Rick on most of his points in this thread, but I feel like we've wandered waaaaaay off topic. The tax thing was a poor example, but really the difference of opinion is regarding whether it's considered to be doing the right thing whether one is pressured or not. I think the answer is obvious, but going back and forth is really going anywhere.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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mfaulk80 wrote:
slothrob wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
You can get extensions to pay taxes. They put you on a payment plan of some sort....
Sure, you can get on a payment plan, but you'll be paying interest. There is a hardship claim that can be filed that will allow the waiving of interest, but that's not what is usually referred to as a tax extension. Does anyone know if the publisher is claiming inability to pay?

I just thought this was pertinent, as someone seemed to be using this as an excuse for paying the designer late without being criticized/penalized, while seeming to imply that taxpayers somehow got away with this practice.
Yeah, I disagree with Rick on most of his points in this thread, but I feel like we've wandered waaaaaay off topic. The tax thing was a poor example, but really the difference of opinion is regarding whether it's considered to be doing the right thing whether one is pressured or not. I think the answer is obvious, but going back and forth is really going anywhere.
It certainly isn't a bad example. People are pressured by the government and tax laws into paying taxes. So are they not doing the right thing then by paying them? That was my only point with taxes. Your view is that paying taxes because it is the law isn't doing the right thing.
 
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rickert wrote:

It certainly isn't a bad example. People are pressured by the government and tax laws into paying taxes. So are they not doing the right thing then by paying them? That was my only point with taxes.
If it was a good example, then we wouldn't be debating the intricacies of your example.
rickert wrote:

Your view is that paying taxes because it is the law isn't doing the right thing.
That is not my view.


Until this thread gets back around to something relevant, I'm out. We can agree to disagree at this point. This thread is making me dizzy...
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mfaulk80 wrote:
This thread is making me dizzy...
Not surprising as we're in the rickert spin zone.
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