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Subject: Overpaying for Noble Title. rss

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Tomasz Waldowski
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Hello again,
I need another rules clarification :-) Can you overpay as much as you want for advancing on the Noble Title Track?
Why? You would like to do this if you see that you are going to lose a tile to another player.
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Fabien Conus
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bigbossjose wrote:
Hello again,
I need another rules clarification :-) Can you overpay as much as you want for advancing on the Noble Title Track?
Why? You would like to do this if you see that you are going to lose a tile to another player.
I would say that you can't, but I'll ask Marc, just to be sure.
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Tomasz Waldowski
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Ok. Thanks.
 
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Fabien Conus
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Ok, got an official answer from the designer:

No you cannot deliberately overpay.
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Game Guy
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FabienC wrote:
Ok, got an official answer from the designer:

No you cannot deliberately overpay.
Then the rules are very poorly written. The rule book simply says that you cannot make change when purchasing a title. That seems to imply that you can overpay.
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Don Lynch
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Needs clarification.

First, where is this clarification from the designer?

Second, the rules allow overpayment.

Third, I originally read this to mean you will not get any change if you overpay based on a presumption that that would apply if you didn't have the right amount on hand. Who wants to overpay?

Fourth, presuming you can't just chuck tiles away, but must limit paying to an amount that equals or exceeds 15, but no excess tiles, consider the following:
You are above to lose a village. You have 5x 3 point tiles and 1x 5 point tile. So you pay for title with 4x 3 points and 1x 5 points for a total of 17. This leaves whoever takes your village with a 3 point tile instead of a 5 point tile.

Fifth, I find the rules not really poorly written as much as incomplete. Looks like the designer (or maybe just the rules writer/lawyer), did not really think it all the permutations through. Which is kind of poor in a deterministic game. Or maybe that was intentional? Thus you should be able to discard as many tiles as you want to pay for a title. Yes it's a bit of gamesmanship, and poor at that, but it is competitive. Real problem is that it introduces methods of threats and/or throwing the game.

Sixth, it would not normally be in a players best interest to throw away tiles for titles, unless the potential loss of a village would give the conquering player enough to win the game. Goes back to gamesmanship and what's allowed.

Oh yeah, why do the player cards use numbers 1-6 and the rules use A-F for actions?

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Fabien Conus
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I think you are not understanding the OP question.

Or maybe I didn't understand it.

Let's take donlyn example of having 5 forest tiles (3 points) and 1 field tile (5 points). It is entirely acceptable to pay 4 forests and 1 field for a total of 17.

What is not acceptable is to pay everything to the bank, for a total of 20.

The clarification comes directly from the designer who is not comfortable in english and has asked me to provide his answer here.

If donlyn or anyone else doesn't trust me, I'll send Marc's answer (in French) to whoever wants it in a GeekMail.
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Don Lynch
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Original poster: "Can you overpay as much as you want for advancing on the Noble Title Track?"

Very simple and clear.

Rules state "...discard a minimum of 15 resource points..."

Nothing about a maximum, only a caution about no change. Again very simple, if not complete. Hence his question.

So if I may re-state, the correct answer is that you can pay what you want, as long as you are not discarding extra tiles for nothing. This means the maximum you can pay is 19, including at least 1x 5 point tile. Doesn't matter what else you have in hand.

As for the designer issue, I noted that "Arnaud MATAGOT (arnaud4matagot)" the publisher had answered some rules questions, which is why I questioned the phantom designer response. If the designer/publisher had done a better job with the rules, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Previously I wrote,

"I find the rules not really poorly written as much as incomplete. Looks like the designer (or maybe just the rules writer/lawyer), did not really think it all the permutations through. Which is kind of poor in a deterministic game. Or maybe that was intentional?"

I have seen many an answer on this site that basically said "that was intentional" in regards to a rules question. You used my example, which is specific and not universal. That is why I re-stated it above in a more universal way. If that is correct, I actually 100% agree with your rules interpretation, as it limits gamesmanship.

So all that aside, no you do not need to forward any responses. If you interpreted what he said accurately, there should be no problem. Had you earlier announced your position as Hand of the King (Game of Thrones reference), you may still have gotten a question from me, just without as many variables.
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kaden sze
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Fabien Conus, i totally agreed with you, it just make sense too. Well, if other people wishes to play any other method, they are free to do so, as long as their group agrees.
 
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