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Subject: Combining items that then discard on use. rss

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Daniel Wilmer
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In the rules on page 15 is an example of combining the bolas item to the rope item.

Question:

When you use the combined item for an action relating to the bolus (fighting or hunting), do you still discard the bolus card only or discard both the bolus AND the rope or not discard the anything at all!?


It initially made more sense to me to just discard the bolus as it seemed stacking was mainly for inventory tidiness and partial item repair. Then again discarding both would be the price you pay for recharging a rope then unfortunately deciding you'd have to 'throw it away' in order to catch your next meal.
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M Edwards
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The combined item has a combined durability which will be reduced when you use either item. If it reaches 0 all parts of the combined item would be gone.

When you combine the items though, if they share a trait, their durability is added, so you're not really losing any uses in that case.

If you use the bolas which explicitly says to discard it, I would assume only the bolas is discarded.
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James J

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medwards wrote:

When you combine the items though, if they share a trait, their durability is added, so you're not really losing any uses in that case.

Unless the combined durability is greater than six. Anything over six is effectively lost when you combine them since that is the maximum durability value.

I'm not sure about discarding only part of a stack. I assumed a combined stack is treated as one item since inventory management is so important. But I haven't watched all the videos yet.
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Garry Rice
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japester1 wrote:
medwards wrote:

When you combine the items though, if they share a trait, their durability is added, so you're not really losing any uses in that case.

Unless the combined durability is greater than six. Anything over six is effectively lost when you combine them since that is the maximum durability value.

I'm not sure about discarding only part of a stack. I assumed a combined stack is treated as one item since inventory management is so important. But I haven't watched all the videos yet.


Just the card that has the discard after use on it is discarded if used. This occurred in Rahdo's video if I recall correctly.
 
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Elia - "Rainbow Hippie" Acca
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garry_rice wrote:
japester1 wrote:
medwards wrote:

When you combine the items though, if they share a trait, their durability is added, so you're not really losing any uses in that case.

Unless the combined durability is greater than six. Anything over six is effectively lost when you combine them since that is the maximum durability value.

I'm not sure about discarding only part of a stack. I assumed a combined stack is treated as one item since inventory management is so important. But I haven't watched all the videos yet.


Just the card that has the discard after use on it is discarded if used. This occurred in Rahdo's video if I recall correctly.

With all due respect Rahdo's video had so many known rule mistakes that it's hardly an authority with regards to rule clarifications.

If anybody can point to an official source, I think we have not yet got a clarification on different-keyword stacking either.
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Bruno Sautter
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SolarJ wrote:
In the rules on page 15 is an example of combining the bolas item to the rope item.

Question:

When you use the combined item for an action relating to the bolus (fighting or hunting), do you still discard the bolas card only or discard both the bolas AND the rope or not discard the anything at all!?

Hello,
You only discard the "Bolas" card in that case. And the d6 value on the Rope decreases by 1 as usual.
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Bruno Sautter
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medwards wrote:
The combined item has a combined durability which will be reduced when you use either item. If it reaches 0 all parts of the combined item would be gone.

When you combine the items though, if they share a trait, their durability is added, so you're not really losing any uses in that case.

If you use the bolas which explicitly says to discard it, I would assume only the bolas is discarded.

That's correct.
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Daniel Wilmer
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BrunoS wrote:
SolarJ wrote:
In the rules on page 15 is an example of combining the bolas item to the rope item.

Question:

When you use the combined item for an action relating to the bolus (fighting or hunting), do you still discard the bolas card only or discard both the bolas AND the rope or not discard anything at all!?

Hello,
You only discard the "Bolas" card in that case. And the d6 value on the Rope decreases by 1 as usual.

Many thanks Bruno!
 
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James J

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BrunoS wrote:
medwards wrote:
The combined item has a combined durability which will be reduced when you use either item. If it reaches 0 all parts of the combined item would be gone.

When you combine the items though, if they share a trait, their durability is added, so you're not really losing any uses in that case.

If you use the bolas which explicitly says to discard it, I would assume only the bolas is discarded.

That's correct.

*Except the part about not losing any uses, right? Since some combined items would have more than 6 uses but the stack is limited to 6? Any uses above that are lost and not recovered?
 
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M Edwards
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Correct; in that exceptional case you would lose uses.
 
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Stefan Tymoshyshyn
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Don't forget though, you can still stack items with no matching keywords, these will have their own durability, not related to the other card(s) in the stack.
 
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James J

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steftymo wrote:
Don't forget though, you can still stack items with no matching keywords, these will have their own durability, not related to the other card(s) in the stack.

Are you sure? I just read over the rules and didn't see that. I finally understand the limit of # of stacks and number of items allowed per stack based on player count. But that rule section implies that adding an item to a stack where it doesn't share a keyword means you lose that item's durability as a consequence of consolidating it into an unrelated stack.

I base this on the fact that each stack's durability is governed by a single die. So a lone player could maintain 4 stacks (using 4 black dice) with four items per stack. If I add an item to stack #1 that doesn't share a keyword, I cannot add it's durability to the top item. And if I cannot add it, and they share that single black die, my assumption is that item's durability is ignored (it shares the durability of the top item instead). That's how the rules seem to read. If there's been an update or clarification on the forum or the KS, that would be great.

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Rob McArthur
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japester1 wrote:
steftymo wrote:
Don't forget though, you can still stack items with no matching keywords, these will have their own durability, not related to the other card(s) in the stack.

Are you sure? I just read over the rules and didn't see that. I finally understand the limit of # of stacks and number of items allowed per stack based on player count. But that rule section implies that adding an item to a stack where it doesn't share a keyword means you lose that item's durability as a consequence of consolidating it into an unrelated stack.

I base this on the fact that each stack's durability is governed by a single die. So a lone player could maintain 4 stacks (using 4 black dice) with four items per stack. If I add an item to stack #1 that doesn't share a keyword, I cannot add it's durability to the top item. And if I cannot add it, and they share that single black die, my assumption is that item's durability is ignored (it shares the durability of the top item instead). That's how the rules seem to read. If there's been an update or clarification on the forum or the KS, that would be great.


This is my interpretation as well. Each stack has a single die. You can combine items and the top item dictates the durability of all items. If the item your adding shares a keyword, then you can add its durability to the top item, to a max of 6.
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Curtiss Cox
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steftymo wrote:
Don't forget though, you can still stack items with no matching keywords, these will have their own durability, not related to the other card(s) in the stack.

This is the opposite of what you can do. Two items with different keywords occupy two unique slots in inventory.


Each item or stack has one die to record durability.

Items can only be stacked if they share a keyword.

The number of players determines both how many item/stacks you can have as well as the number of like items that can be combined in a single stack.


See below. I was wrong. My bad!
 
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Garry Rice
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I asked this question in the Kickstarter comments and indeed, you can stack cards without the same keyword under the same die. However, they do not boost the durability value if the keywords do not match.

Quote from Jamie's response:

Quote:
->Can you stack items that contain different keywords? Looking at the rules it would appear to me you can only stack/combine items that share a keyword. Otherwise you would need to put the items in separate stacks.

You can but it does not combine their durability.
 
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black dog
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Quote:
Quote from Jamie's response:

Quote:
->Can you stack items that contain different keywords? Looking at the rules it would appear to me you can only stack/combine items that share a keyword. Otherwise you would need to put the items in separate stacks.

You can but it does not combine their durability.
Does that mean that each object must keep its own die ?
 
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Curtiss Cox
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garry_rice wrote:
I asked this question in the Kickstarter comments and indeed, you can stack cards without the same keyword under the same die. However, they do not boost the durability value if the keywords do not match.

Quote from Jamie's response:

Quote:
->Can you stack items that contain different keywords? Looking at the rules it would appear to me you can only stack/combine items that share a keyword. Otherwise you would need to put the items in separate stacks.

You can but it does not combine their durability.

Each stack only has one die to represent it... This is illustrated in the diagram that shows how many items/stacks you can have.

If I were able to stack multiple items that do not share a keyword and do not combine durability into a single slot, then how would I keep track of the items' respective uses?

There aren't enough dice included to support that many items being used simultaneously.

 
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davide favargiotti
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I was puzzled by this as well. But Jamie explained how it works in the KS forum.

One die per stack. You can combine whatever card in single stack (until you hit the limit). If the cards share the same keyword you can boost the die. If they don't share any keyword you just slip the card in the stack and the current die value is the shared durability of the stack. It means that when you use any of the ability in the stack the die is reduced.

Jamie says that you can combine a food card with a rope card, but they share the same die (the one that was already on the stack). And using either ability will decrease the die

CheddarLimbo wrote:
garry_rice wrote:
I asked this question in the Kickstarter comments and indeed, you can stack cards without the same keyword under the same die. However, they do not boost the durability value if the keywords do not match.

Quote from Jamie's response:

Quote:
->Can you stack items that contain different keywords? Looking at the rules it would appear to me you can only stack/combine items that share a keyword. Otherwise you would need to put the items in separate stacks.

You can but it does not combine their durability.

Each stack only has one die to represent it... This is illustrated in the diagram that shows how many items/stacks you can have.

If I were able to stack multiple items that do not share a keyword and do not combine durability into a single slot, then how would I keep track of the items' respective uses?

There aren't enough dice included to support that many items being used simultaneously.

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Stefan Tymoshyshyn
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dieffe wrote:
I was puzzled by this as well. But Jamie explained how it works in the KS forum.

One die per stack. You can combine whatever card in single stack (until you hit the limit). If the cards share the same keyword you can boost the die. If they don't share any keyword you just slip the card in the stack and the current die value is the shared durability of the stack. It means that when you use any of the ability in the stack the die is reduced.

Jamie says that you can combine a food card with a rope card, but they share the same die (the one that was already on the stack). And using either ability will decrease the die

CheddarLimbo wrote:
garry_rice wrote:
I asked this question in the Kickstarter comments and indeed, you can stack cards without the same keyword under the same die. However, they do not boost the durability value if the keywords do not match.

Quote from Jamie's response:

Quote:
->Can you stack items that contain different keywords? Looking at the rules it would appear to me you can only stack/combine items that share a keyword. Otherwise you would need to put the items in separate stacks.

You can but it does not combine their durability.

Each stack only has one die to represent it... This is illustrated in the diagram that shows how many items/stacks you can have.

If I were able to stack multiple items that do not share a keyword and do not combine durability into a single slot, then how would I keep track of the items' respective uses?

There aren't enough dice included to support that many items being used simultaneously.


This seems to be getting more complicated, we need proper examples.
According to this then if I have 2 items in a stack that do not share a keyword, top one has value of 2 with a die on it,second one has a value of 3. Do they both share a value of 2?
 
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Curtiss Cox
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dieffe wrote:
I was puzzled by this as well. But Jamie explained how it works in the KS forum.

One die per stack. You can combine whatever card in single stack (until you hit the limit). If the cards share the same keyword you can boost the die. If they don't share any keyword you just slip the card in the stack and the current die value is the shared durability of the stack. It means that when you use any of the ability in the stack the die is reduced.

Jamie says that you can combine a food card with a rope card, but they share the same die (the one that was already on the stack). And using either ability will decrease the die

CheddarLimbo wrote:
garry_rice wrote:
I asked this question in the Kickstarter comments and indeed, you can stack cards without the same keyword under the same die. However, they do not boost the durability value if the keywords do not match.

Quote from Jamie's response:

Quote:
->Can you stack items that contain different keywords? Looking at the rules it would appear to me you can only stack/combine items that share a keyword. Otherwise you would need to put the items in separate stacks.

You can but it does not combine their durability.

Each stack only has one die to represent it... This is illustrated in the diagram that shows how many items/stacks you can have.

If I were able to stack multiple items that do not share a keyword and do not combine durability into a single slot, then how would I keep track of the items' respective uses?

There aren't enough dice included to support that many items being used simultaneously.


Huh. Well okay, that's about as confirmed as it gets, I guess. Doesn't make thematic sense to me, but that's cool. Thanks for the details!
 
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James J

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steftymo wrote:

This seems to be getting more complicated, we need proper examples.
According to this then if I have 2 items in a stack that do not share a keyword, top one has value of 2 with a die on it,second one has a value of 3. Do they both share a value of 2?

That's exactly what he's saying. It's basically a penalty for having too many inventory items. Very creative but not at all intuitive outside of a mechanical standpoint. I can't see any way to describe this in a real-world setting, but I can easily explain adding a card to a stack and whether or not you get to increase the black die's value.

Since the top card determines the durability, they need to clarify whether items in inventory are permanently placed until used up or discarded by card effect. I strongly suspect this is the case. Otherwise you'll have people trying to shift cards around to maximize durability. Then again, if you have two stacks with matching keywords, it would prevent you from combining them as your slots fill up. Hmmm...
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Daniel Wilmer
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This has gone further than I anticipated. I never considered stacking items without keywords so clarification on that also helpful so thanks for all replies on that too.

I suspect this would be a good area for a further example in the manual which includes non-keyword combination.

The thematic aspect of non keyword combination seems tied to the varying item and stack limit for players: pricipally to ensure balance to the numbers of positive boons availible in the party but thematically less adventurers are forced to become more individually creative to solve different problems limited?

As long as I know how it works and it makes some sense I'm happy.
 
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James J

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+1 for additional examples in the rulebook. That should make it crystal clear.

It's also important to note that once an item is crafted, it is permanently locked to a player's inventory and cannot be traded. Which will prevent a team from maximizing any keyword stacking potential.

The rules do say that players can craft an item together and then determine which player gets to add it to their inventory. I assume this simply means that at the time of creation and item can go to any player sharing that same tile. (Another reason to keep the party together!)
 
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Lee Gamble
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Presumably this also means if you add a new item (item X) as part of a new stack, you can't then take an existing stack (or other single item) and combine it with item X to create a new stack with item X and its durability die (which is likely to be high) at the top to take advantage of that new high durability die for all the items in that newly created stack?

Likewise, no option to add a new item to the top of an existing stack (when they don't share skill words)

mechanically it all works but thematically is a little weird; same with players unable to swap items from one backpack to another - doesn't make sense thematically but needs to be there to prevent players min/maxing their stacks, so to speak



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Accatitippi wrote:
garry_rice wrote:
japester1 wrote:
medwards wrote:

When you combine the items though, if they share a trait, their durability is added, so you're not really losing any uses in that case.

Unless the combined durability is greater than six. Anything over six is effectively lost when you combine them since that is the maximum durability value.

I'm not sure about discarding only part of a stack. I assumed a combined stack is treated as one item since inventory management is so important. But I haven't watched all the videos yet.


Just the card that has the discard after use on it is discarded if used. This occurred in Rahdo's video if I recall correctly.

With all due respect Rahdo's video had so many known rule mistakes that it's hardly an authority with regards to rule clarifications.

If anybody can point to an official source, I think we have not yet got a clarification on different-keyword stacking either.

Hehe. I agree to that!! like deciding to use an item or not (pole) after getting the results from the cards
 
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