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Subject: Play by forum vs AI? rss

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tysen
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Anyone have any interest in trying a PBF against an AI I've created? I figure it would be a good opportunity to get some discussion going about some of the tactics you see in the game as the forum discusses possibilities.
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Florian Trabert
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Join me in!
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Okay, I'm going to get this started. I might not be too active over the weekend, but I figure I'll start it now and maybe let the thread gather more interest.

I'll let you guys go first. I'll randomly draw the move cards. First two are yours, 3rd and 4th are the bots.

5custom15{Boar;Dog;Dragon;Frog;Horse;Monkey;Mouse;Ostrich;Ox;Rabbit;Rooster;Sheep;Snake;Tiger;Turtle} -> ( Boar Dragon Rabbit Rabbit Tiger) -> ( Boar Dragon Rabbit Rabbit Tiger)
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  • 798449. tysen
  • 5custom15{Boar;Dog;Dragon;Frog;Horse;Monkey;Mouse;Ostrich;Ox;Rabbit;Rooster;Sheep;Snake;Tiger;Turtle} =
  • ( Boar Dragon Rabbit Rabbit Tiger) =
  • ( Boar Dragon Rabbit Rabbit Tiger)
  • Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:11 pm
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  • 798450. tysen
  • 1custom15{Boar;Dog;Dragon;Frog;Horse;Monkey;Mouse;Ostrich;Ox;Rabbit;Rooster;Sheep;Snake;Tiger;Turtle} =
  • ( Boar) =
  • ( Boar)
  • Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:13 pm
tysen
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Re-rolling repeat
1custom15{Boar;Dog;Dragon;Frog;Horse;Monkey;Mouse;Ostrich;Ox;Rabbit;Rooster;Sheep;Snake;Tiger;Turtle} -> ( Dragon) -> ( Dragon)

Again 1custom15{Boar;Dog;Dragon;Frog;Horse;Monkey;Mouse;Ostrich;Ox;Rabbit;Rooster;Sheep;Snake;Tiger;Turtle} -> ( Tiger) -> ( Tiger)
Again 1custom15{Boar;Dog;Dragon;Frog;Horse;Monkey;Mouse;Ostrich;Ox;Rabbit;Rooster;Sheep;Snake;Tiger;Turtle} -> ( Sheep) -> ( Sheep)
 
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  • 1custom15{Boar;Dog;Dragon;Frog;Horse;Monkey;Mouse;Ostrich;Ox;Rabbit;Rooster;Sheep;Snake;Tiger;Turtle} =
  • ( Dragon) =
  • ( Dragon)
  • Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:15 pm
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  • 1custom15{Boar;Dog;Dragon;Frog;Horse;Monkey;Mouse;Ostrich;Ox;Rabbit;Rooster;Sheep;Snake;Tiger;Turtle} =
  • ( Tiger) =
  • ( Tiger)
  • Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:16 pm
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  • 1custom15{Boar;Dog;Dragon;Frog;Horse;Monkey;Mouse;Ostrich;Ox;Rabbit;Rooster;Sheep;Snake;Tiger;Turtle} =
  • ( Sheep) =
  • ( Sheep)
  • Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:16 pm
tysen
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My beautiful board...


+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
To Play: White | | | X | | | | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | @ | | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | X | | X | | | | X | | X | | Tiger
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
5 | p | p | o | p | p | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | X | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
4 | | | | | | Rabbit Sheep | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
3 | | | | | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
2 | | | | | | Boar Dragon | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
1 | P | P | O | P | P | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
A B C D E | | | X | | | | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | @ | | | | | X | @ | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | X | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+


Hopefully most of this is self explanatory. Capital letters are your pieces, lowercase are the bot's. The bots cards are rotated so you can see potential moves from the right orientation. Tiger card is off to the side.

Let the discussion begin!
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Hilko Drude
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I'm interested as well (are you looking for a group effort here?). White is the player color, I assume?

(I would start using the boar to move D1-D2, but as all cards are symmetric, it could be B1-B2 as well. Using the Dragon next turn will threaten the bot's king by the Tiger already.
Our experience with the Tiger is that it is really seldomly used to make a move, but incredibly valuable as a threat.)
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Martijn Althuizen
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HilkMAN wrote:
I'm interested as well (are you looking for a group effort here?). White is the player color, I assume?

(I would start using the boar to move D1-D2, but as all cards are symmetric, it could be B1-B2 as well. Using the Dragon next turn will threaten the bot's king by the Tiger already.
Our experience with the Tiger is that it is really seldomly used to make a move, but incredibly valuable as a threat.)


Sounds like a plan! A good one.. thumbsup
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tysen
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Yeah, I'm looking for a group effort. Figure that will generate the most discussion. I'm open for suggestions on how to run this. We could either vote on suggestions with thumbs or pick a leader to provide a final decision.

Yes, I'm calling your color white as in chess.
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A poll sounds good, but I am interested in somewhat speedy play, so a turn shouldn't take forever. Not sure how many players are joining in anyway, so far there are three who seem to be interested. Unless there are others, a move that gets two votes might be executed. That threshold could be moved up if more people join.
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HilkMAN wrote:
A poll sounds good, but I am interested in somewhat speedy play, so a turn shouldn't take forever. Not sure how many players are joining in anyway, so far there are three who seem to be interested. Unless there are others, a move that gets two votes might be executed. That threshold could be moved up if more people join.


Or: anyone can suggest a move and if nobody replies in a certain number of hours (1 to 2 or so?), then that's the move to go with...?
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HilkMAN wrote:
Our experience with the Tiger is that it is really seldomly used to make a move, but incredibly valuable as a threat.

This is my experience as well. My bot thinks you have a nice advantage since you get the Tiger first, as well as first-mover's advantage.
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The bot does Rabbit a5b4:


+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
To Play: White | | | X | | | | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | @ | | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | X | | | | | X | | X | | Rabbit
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
5 | | p | o | p | p | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
4 | | p | | | | Boar Sheep | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
3 | | | | | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
2 | | | | P | | Tiger Dragon | | | X | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
1 | P | P | O | | P | | | | X | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
A B C D E | | | | | | | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | @ | | | | | X | @ | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
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My suggestion: Dragon A1-B2 (to - possibly - move toward the center with the Rabbit next turn).
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Sheep b5c4

+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
To Play: White | | | X | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | @ | | | | | X | @ | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | X | | | | | X | | X | | Sheep
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
5 | | | o | p | p | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
4 | | p | p | | | Boar Dragon | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
3 | | | | | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
2 | | P | | P | | Tiger Rabbit | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
1 | | P | O | | P | | | | X | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
A B C D E | | | | | | | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | @ | | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | X | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
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Ah, that didn't get us anywhere, really (I often attack too fast - do stop me if I do).

Some observations: The card distribution is unusual as it contains three diagonal forward cards. So Boar and Tiger will be key cards here, plus the Dragon with its sideways move. If we move to the center, we lose two pawns vs. one from Black (unless we use the tiger for the second one - not something I'd suggest). Going forward elsewehere seems similarly silly.

So my suggestion: See how the AI reacts to D2-D1? Or possibly B1-A2? Opinions?
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Yeah, both moves are better than moving forwards in the center. E1-E3 is another option. All pretty equal moves I think. But this is my first time playing, so let's go with one of Hilko's moves! I then pick B1-A2. Let's not back up already...!
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Martinus wrote:
Yeah, both moves are better than moving forwards in the center. E1-E3 is another option. All pretty equal moves I think. But this is my first time playing, so let's go with one of Hilko's moves! I then pick B1-A2. Let's not back up already...!


Ok, B1-A2 is fine with me.

As mentioned above, the Tiger is a very strong card if you don't use it - much less so if you do. Essentially, we have one card for playing and a threat to keep the opponent at a distance.
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Dragon e5d4
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
To Play: White | | | X | | | | | | X | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | @ | | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | X | | | | | X | | X | | Dragon
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
5 | | | o | p | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
4 | | p | p | p | | Boar Rabbit | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
3 | | | | | | | | X | @ | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
2 | P | P | | P | | Tiger Sheep | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
1 | | | O | | P | | | | X | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
A B C D E | | | | | | | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | @ | | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
 
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Felix Lastname
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Tiger A2-A4
Woe be him!
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Againsto wrote:
Tiger A2-A4
Woe be him!


While my instinct screams "Keep the Tiger! Keep the Tiger!", I have to admit that might be an interesting move. Worthy of trying out, I guess.
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This game will be won with dragon and sheep. The tiger is but a distraction.
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Boar c4c3
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
To Play: White | | | | | | | | | X | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | @ | | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | X | | X | | Boar
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
5 | | | o | p | | | | | X | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
4 | P | p | | p | | Tiger Rabbit | | | X | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
3 | | | p | | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
2 | | P | | P | | Dragon Sheep | | | X | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
1 | | | O | | P | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
A B C D E | | X | | X | | | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | X | @ | X | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
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Oh well, attrition it is. Boo, hiss.

Sheep, D2-C3.
I feel it's better to get the D guy moving than the B guy, but don't feel too strongly about it.
Oh, and a suggestion: how about exchanging P and p for W and B? To make it more obvious who's who?
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Againsto wrote:
Oh well, attrition it is. Boo, hiss.

Sheep, D2-C3.
I feel it's better to get the D guy moving than the B guy, but don't feel too strongly about it.
Oh, and a suggestion: how about exchanging P and p for W and B? To make it more obvious who's who?


All fine with me.
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Rabbit d4c3
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
To Play: White | | | | | | | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | @ | | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | X | | X | | Rabbit
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
5 | | | B | b | | | | | X | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
4 | w | b | | | | Tiger Sheep | | X | | X | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
3 | | | b | | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
2 | | w | | | | Dragon Boar | | | X | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
1 | | | W | | w | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
A B C D E | | X | | X | | | | | X | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | X | @ | X | | | | | @ | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | X | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+ +---+---+---+---+---+
| | | | | | | | | | | |
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