Recommend
7 
 Thumb up
 Hide
26 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Dilluvia Project» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question about market tiles rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Bijan Ajamlou
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
After our first game we found the market tiles that:

When erecting a building #2 or #3 the owner needs
to pay 2 less resource cubes (of his choice).

And the other that was for building 4 and 5 was quite overpowered as an infinity symbol effect. It would still be good as one time only effect. Is this a missprint?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M. Frieg
Germany
Gummersbach
NRW
flag msg tools
Fan since 1988
badge
I AM WATCHING U
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I felt the same way about those tiles. The person who got this tile won the game. If one person gets both i felt like that person is mostly the winner of the game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Renato
Portugal
Vila Nova Gaia
Porto
flag msg tools
I run through Rahdo's Runthroughs and make right what once went wrong (via annotations)
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes... they are overpowered...

I talked with Alexandre and he feels they are more balanced either:

- Given 1 cube discount

or

- Given 2 cubes discount once per round (only giving the discount to one building)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Ben
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes we found them to be overpowered as well, especially the one for 4 and 5 buildings. Thanks for the suggested variants Paulo. I think the hard cap at one use per turn is the better option.

For the 4/5 tile that could save you 8 cubes during the game which is a lot for one market tile. But if it's an unlimited one cube discount it could be more than 8 :/
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruno Valerio
Portugal
Lisboa
flag msg tools
Elitist!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes i will house rule those tiles...

Either 1 free cube or 2 free cubes only once per round!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bijan Ajamlou
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Oblivion wrote:
Yes i will house rule those tiles...

Either 1 free cube or 2 free cubes only once per round!

I strongly suggest to house rule it to one time use only. Consider the market tile that gives you 2 cubes of a specific color. Getting 2 discount of any color is equivalent of that since you only use cubes for building anyway. Getting one cube income each turn is much more powerfull.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Ben
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bijanajamlou wrote:
Oblivion wrote:
Yes i will house rule those tiles...

Either 1 free cube or 2 free cubes only once per round!

I strongly suggest to house rule it to one time use only. Consider the market tile that gives you 2 cubes of a specific color. Getting 2 discount of any color is equivalent of that since you only use cubes for building anyway. Getting one cube income each turn is much more powerfull.

It's actually better than a two free cube market tile because you can choose their colours later and they can be different if needed.

We seem to be discussing the merging of the two variants: a one cube discount once per round.

One cube, once per round can give a lot of cubes overall but they are delayed which is annoying. It means that someone might actually prefer the two cubes now versus one cube now and more cubes later.

Maybe you're right and one cube once per turn is still too powerful, but it isn't clear to me. It's certainly closer to the correct power level than either of the suggested variants on its own.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Victor Caminha
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
badge
And so it begins...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am keeping track of this thread with interest as I will debut my copy tomorrow and am somewhat alarmed by the power of those tiles.

So far, I think I will adopt the house rule "use one-time only to gain two cubes of your choice when erecting the buildings depicted on the tile" since it will tone down its ability a big deal and will be easier to adjust the tile: just consider the infinity symbol as a "1 X then discard".

If anyone thinks this solution to nerf the tiles is a bit too much, I am glad to listen
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alexandre Garcia
Portugal
Tomar
Lisboa
flag msg tools
designer
I am addicted to Game Design!
badge
Time flies when designing games!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Less 1 cube (infinite) is not so overpowered because sometimes you prefer to build other buildings to improve your strategy (ex: objective cards obtained on the market, or just gain 2 population for building in the correct age). I am also exploring the published version, specially the differences between the prototype (see some pictures posted a long time ago). I strongly respect the overall work done by spielworxx, especially the great quality game components that seem fantastic to me!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Ben
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Immaterial wrote:
Less 1 cube (infinite) is not so overpowered because sometimes you prefer to build other buildings to improve your strategy (ex: objective cards obtained on the market, or just gain 2 population for building in the correct age). I am also exploring the published version, specially the differences between the prototype (see some pictures posted a long time ago). I strongly respect the overall work done by spielworxx, especially the great quality game components that seem fantastic to me!

Well you won't prefer to build other buildings if you have that tile. I don't think it's an issue with the 2/3 tile because those buildings cannot be spammed to great effect. The 4/5 on the other hand are amazing if built 2 or 3 at a time. So with -1 (infinite) you can easily save 5 cubes and still build every building with the 2VP bonus.

From a design point of view I don't think the market tiles should be perfectly balanced, but there can't be too much variance either.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alexandre Garcia
Portugal
Tomar
Lisboa
flag msg tools
designer
I am addicted to Game Design!
badge
Time flies when designing games!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In fact, you may potentially build more buildings 4/5 than 2/3 with the respective tile because your resource income engine will be more powerfull at the second half of the game. consequently, you will also obtain +2 population points when building.

I perfectly agree, the perfect balance is not something seeked in the tiles. If they were all similar, then players would have no tension on chosing the row, or taking the first player.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Victor Caminha
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
badge
And so it begins...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Immaterial wrote:
I strongly respect the overall work done by spielworxx, especially the great quality game components that seem fantastic to me!
I can't disagree enough with that. I usually don't mind minor component production problems, but the mistake about the color of the cubes was a production fail. It is annoying to see the player aid showing a color (white, light yellow, brown, purple), the rules stating another one (white, black, brown, purple) and then check a different color at the cubes: black, natural (wood), white, dark pink (almost identical to red!).

Yes, the color of the components won't affect gameplay as long as you don't mix the red player cubes with the dark pink material. Yes, the player aid will help you, as long as you ignore the color discrepancy. But it sure is irksome to me, specially considering a guy on my gaming group is color blind.

I wouldn't bring this issue but to read a "fantastic" praise about the quality of the "great game components" ? No, it is not thumbsdown
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M. Frieg
Germany
Gummersbach
NRW
flag msg tools
Fan since 1988
badge
I AM WATCHING U
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
production quality is great except the colors and the 2 prestige markers.. the production proof should have shown the wrong colors.. but someone seems to have missed that big color difference between the aid and the cubes.. it is bad, but the rest is fine.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tony Kotler
United States
Miami
Florida
flag msg tools
I Love Heavy Dry Soulless Euros!!!
badge
When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Immaterial wrote:
Less 1 cube (infinite) is not so overpowered because sometimes you prefer to build other buildings to improve your strategy (ex: objective cards obtained on the market, or just gain 2 population for building in the correct age). I am also exploring the published version, specially the differences between the prototype (see some pictures posted a long time ago). I strongly respect the overall work done by spielworxx, especially the great quality game components that seem fantastic to me!

As the designer, which variant would you recommend to balance these tiles?

1. Give an unlimited 1 cube discount

or

2. Give a 2 cube discount once per round (only giving the discount to one building)

or

3. Something else???

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alexandre Garcia
Portugal
Tomar
Lisboa
flag msg tools
designer
I am addicted to Game Design!
badge
Time flies when designing games!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BlueDane wrote:
Immaterial wrote:
Less 1 cube (infinite) is not so overpowered because sometimes you prefer to build other buildings to improve your strategy (ex: objective cards obtained on the market, or just gain 2 population for building in the correct age). I am also exploring the published version, specially the differences between the prototype (see some pictures posted a long time ago). I strongly respect the overall work done by spielworxx, especially the great quality game components that seem fantastic to me!

As the designer, which variant would you recommend to balance these tiles?

1. Give an unlimited 1 cube discount

or

2. Give a 2 cube discount once per round (only giving the discount to one building)

or

3. Something else???


I would use it as a permanent discount of 1 cube. It is strong (a source of tension) without being broken. When your machine produces 5 or 6 cubes of your choice per turn it becomes not so relevant to have such a discount.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tony Kotler
United States
Miami
Florida
flag msg tools
I Love Heavy Dry Soulless Euros!!!
badge
When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Ham
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
CLICK THIS BEAGLE if you're looking for in-depth gameplay video run-throughs! :)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Immaterial wrote:
When your machine produces 5 or 6 cubes of your choice per turn it becomes not so relevant to have such a discount.
Alex, reading between the lines here, does this mean you think the tiles in question are fine as is and don't need to be changed at all?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Renato
Portugal
Vila Nova Gaia
Porto
flag msg tools
I run through Rahdo's Runthroughs and make right what once went wrong (via annotations)
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rahdo wrote:
Immaterial wrote:
When your machine produces 5 or 6 cubes of your choice per turn it becomes not so relevant to have such a discount.
Alex, reading between the lines here, does this mean you think the tiles in question are fine as is and don't need to be changed at all?

No... They need fixing... Alex did say 2 post above how they should be
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Ham
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
CLICK THIS BEAGLE if you're looking for in-depth gameplay video run-throughs! :)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Muse23PT wrote:
rahdo wrote:
Immaterial wrote:
When your machine produces 5 or 6 cubes of your choice per turn it becomes not so relevant to have such a discount.
Alex, reading between the lines here, does this mean you think the tiles in question are fine as is and don't need to be changed at all?

No... They need fixing... Alex did say 2 post above how they should be
Yeah, but why imply that ultimately they're not unbalanced because you're making so many cubes that the tile discounts as they are become no big?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Renato
Portugal
Vila Nova Gaia
Porto
flag msg tools
I run through Rahdo's Runthroughs and make right what once went wrong (via annotations)
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rahdo wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
rahdo wrote:
Immaterial wrote:
When your machine produces 5 or 6 cubes of your choice per turn it becomes not so relevant to have such a discount.
Alex, reading between the lines here, does this mean you think the tiles in question are fine as is and don't need to be changed at all?

No... They need fixing... Alex did say 2 post above how they should be
Yeah, but why mention that ultimately they're not unbalanced because you're making so many cubes that the tile discounts as they are become no big?

I think he was saying that in regard to the alternate tile power of 1 discount
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Ham
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
CLICK THIS BEAGLE if you're looking for in-depth gameplay video run-throughs! :)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Muse23PT wrote:
rahdo wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
rahdo wrote:
Immaterial wrote:
When your machine produces 5 or 6 cubes of your choice per turn it becomes not so relevant to have such a discount.
Alex, reading between the lines here, does this mean you think the tiles in question are fine as is and don't need to be changed at all?

No... They need fixing... Alex did say 2 post above how they should be
Yeah, but why mention that ultimately they're not unbalanced because you're making so many cubes that the tile discounts as they are become no big?

I think he was saying that in regard to the alternate tile power of 1 discount
could be... could be
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alexandre Garcia
Portugal
Tomar
Lisboa
flag msg tools
designer
I am addicted to Game Design!
badge
Time flies when designing games!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rahdo wrote:
Immaterial wrote:
When your machine produces 5 or 6 cubes of your choice per turn it becomes not so relevant to have such a discount.
Alex, reading between the lines here, does this mean you think the tiles in question are fine as is and don't need to be changed at all?

Sorry, I didn't see this before ^^

I think they need to be played as a -1 cube discount. It is not extrapowerfull to have such a discount (-1) because it will be a small part of your personal income in the last turns (and maybe also in midgame, depending on how you play).
meeple
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Ham
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
CLICK THIS BEAGLE if you're looking for in-depth gameplay video run-throughs! :)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Immaterial wrote:
rahdo wrote:
Immaterial wrote:
When your machine produces 5 or 6 cubes of your choice per turn it becomes not so relevant to have such a discount.
Alex, reading between the lines here, does this mean you think the tiles in question are fine as is and don't need to be changed at all?

Sorry, I didn't see this before ^^

I think they need to be played as a -1 cube discount. It is not extrapowerfull to have such a discount (-1) because it will be a small part of your personal income in the last turns (and maybe also in midgame, depending on how you play).
meeple

Awesome, thanks! Can I ask, why did they end up overpowered? Was it something that was missed in play testing, or did the publisher change them or add them?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alexandre Garcia
Portugal
Tomar
Lisboa
flag msg tools
designer
I am addicted to Game Design!
badge
Time flies when designing games!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
They were upgraded by Spielworxx, not added. They already existed as -1 resource in the prototype.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ege Tunca
Turkey
istanbul
flag msg tools
Come to the dark side we got cookies.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wykthor wrote:
Immaterial wrote:
I strongly respect the overall work done by spielworxx, especially the great quality game components that seem fantastic to me!
I can't disagree enough with that. I usually don't mind minor component production problems, but the mistake about the color of the cubes was a production fail. It is annoying to see the player aid showing a color (white, light yellow, brown, purple), the rules stating another one (white, black, brown, purple) and then check a different color at the cubes: black, natural (wood), white, dark pink (almost identical to red!).

Yes, the color of the components won't affect gameplay as long as you don't mix the red player cubes with the dark pink material. Yes, the player aid will help you, as long as you ignore the color discrepancy. But it sure is irksome to me, specially considering a guy on my gaming group is color blind.

I wouldn't bring this issue but to read a "fantastic" praise about the quality of the "great game components" ? No, it is not thumbsdown

+1 Can't agree more. I think Spielworxx did a horrible job at the cubes, colors... messes the game up, makes you think what is what. You spend time on the components while you should be thinking about the game. I wish this was produced by someone like Z-man

Also can't understand how they can upgrade a tile without getting your permission. That seems insane.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   |