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Any Math Trader who accepts a cash value trade (a numerical amount via gift card, gift certificate, PayPal, actual cash, etc.) is conducting a direct sale through the site and is subject to the associated commission fee (3%) required by the Terms of Service just as with any other sale.

After the trade, the person receiving the GC/PayPal/cash creates a Geek Market listing, and the person sending the GC/PayPal/cash buys it.

Reference: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/20602976#20602976



Step-by-Step:

1. Create a Geek Market listing (Miscellaneous Game Accessory is a good default option).

Direct link: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekmarket/sell?objecttype=thin...

2. Send the link to the Geek Market listing to the person sending the GC/PayPal/cash so that they can buy it.

3. Once an item is bought, it will need to be confirmed. You can see it under your Recent Sales in the Geek Market.

Direct link: http://boardgamegeek.com/geekmarket/account/sales

Click the sale ID of the listing that you wish to confirm.

Click "Confirm Transaction."

4. Once the commission amount is over the minimum, you can pay what is owed through http://boardgamegeek.com/geekmarket/account/paycommission

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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
Good decision.
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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
Does this mean that cash is now allowed to be involved in a math trade instead of just gift cards?
 
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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
You would have to ask the specific MT moderator that question, as it is up to them. They run it, they set the rules.

Admje14 wrote:
Does this mean that cash is now allowed to be involved in a math trade instead of just gift cards?
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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
Admje14 wrote:
Does this mean that cash is now allowed to be involved in a math trade instead of just gift cards?

This is an independent question, most probably not influenced by this measure of BGG.
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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
Obviously retroactivity is illegal (nulla poena sine lege), so I am pretty confident this rule doesn't apply to any MTs that have already started (as for example the UK MT)
Correct?
 
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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
That's an interesting question. The policy was actually announced back in October (see the reference), but wasn't posted as conspicuously until now.
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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
I assume...

1. geek gold is not a cash equiv instrument?

2. receiving cash for GG I send out is exempt (unless folks who sell GG elsewhere on the site are also going to be subject to the commish)?

3. receiving a GC for a GC is also exempt?

4. since BGG marketplace doesn't subject the shipping cost to the commish, math traders receiving cash (or equiv) for a tangible item (game, etc) that needs shipping can subject their shipping cost before calculating the commish?
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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
indigopotter wrote:
1. Create a Geek Market listing (Miscellaneous Game Accessory is a good default option).

Direct link: boardgamegeek.com/geekmarket/sell?objecttype=thing&objectid=5985

any chance there is an argument that will preload the "Notes" field? Ie.

notes=This%20listing%20is%20reserved%20for....

I can auto-generate this link in the OLWLG trades summary script
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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
They could, but not worth the effort. It really is enforced at the point they actively enforce (as in require/force/interdict) a MT transaction involving GCs.

Kayvon wrote:
That's an interesting question. The policy was actually announced back in October (see the reference), but wasn't posted as conspicuously until now.
 
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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
suggestion to any admin... can you change the subject of this thread to something like...

Cash Value Trades in Math Trades are now subject to BGG Sales Commision

so it's clear this thread wasn't just another inquiry about cash in MT's which is what I thought it was going to be
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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
darthhugo wrote:
You would have to ask the specific MT moderator that question, as it is up to them. They run it, they set the rules.

Admje14 wrote:
Does this mean that cash is now allowed to be involved in a math trade instead of just gift cards?


Not true. Previously, cash was banned by BGG but Gift Cards were not, as cash would have been subject to the 3%. Now that Gift Cards are subject to the 3%, it makes me wonder if BGG has lifted the across the board ban on cash in math trades. If so, then your statement will be correct going forward.
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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
frumpish wrote:
Good decision.


Mostly, yes.

I'd like to see an exception for gift cards that aren't from an OLGS, for example a gift card to TJ Maxx or Olive Garden. OLGS gift cards are almost always someone buying the gift card post trade as a thinly-disguised purchase of the math trade game. Other gift cards are almost always someone trying to trade away a gift card they already have but don't want to use, and therefore really are a trade rather than a disguised purchase.

I don't think I've ever offered or traded a non-OLGS gift card nor have I ever traded for one, but I have put a handful on wantlists.
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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
Admje14 wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
You would have to ask the specific MT moderator that question, as it is up to them. They run it, they set the rules.

Admje14 wrote:
Does this mean that cash is now allowed to be involved in a math trade instead of just gift cards?


Not true. Previously, cash was banned by BGG but Gift Cards were not, as cash would have been subject to the 3%. Now that Gift Cards are subject to the 3%, it makes me wonder if BGG has lifted the across the board ban on cash in math trades. If so, then your statement will be correct going forward.


GC were always the loophole which is why MTs depended on them. I hope future MT mods will just emphasis straight up cash from here out. I can't tell you the number of times I've had to ask "where do you want a GC to" in a MT only to be told "just paypal me". I'd wager that a very large percentage of GC traded in a math trade don't exist prior to the resolution.

Ms. Potter, how will y'all enforce this? Will there be more admin activity in math trades or will you be putting more work on the shoulders of the mods? Or is it just going to be a kind of "On your honor" thing like the auction system?
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Re: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades
The one thing I dislike about this policy, is that it is the receiver is responsible for the 3% instead of the sender.

In math trades, the sender is one who responsible for adequately describing the item listed, making sure it conforms to rules, and has to replace the item when lost in transit... gets to stick the receiver with a 3% fee; when they're the one who's going to list multiple GCs anyway and can handle them all as a single transaction.

I realize I'm not going to change the mind of anyone important, as my suggested policy would be an exception to general policy that MTs have gotten pulled into. So venting done unless questioned in a more appropriate topic.

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JeffyJeff wrote:
4. since BGG marketplace doesn't subject the shipping cost to the commish, math traders receiving cash (or equiv) for a tangible item (game, etc) that needs shipping can subject their shipping cost before calculating the commish?


Octavian answered that in an earlier thread, so I'm quoting him here:

Octavian wrote:
gophers79 wrote:
Charles B wrote:
Will the GC recipient be permitted to reflect the shipping expense in the marketplace listing? E.g., if I accept a $30 GC for a game that costs $11.30 to ship, will I be permitted to make the listing for $18.70 rather than the full $30? If not, this would result now having to pay BGG commissions on the cost of shipping.


Interesting thought here. I'm curious on this as well.


For sake of simplicity and transparency I think it would be best to list the cost as the full value of the amount being received. In this example the commission difference is $0.33 - if that amount is a deal breaker for someone then don't trade for GC/cash.



from https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/20604753#20604753

1, 2, and 3 will have to wait for Octavian.
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yaverot wrote:
The one thing I dislike about this policy, is that it is the receiver is responsible for the 3% instead of the sender

just to be clear it's the receiver of the "cash" (and is sending out a game)... just like a "sale"

Admje14 wrote:
Previously, cash was banned by BGG but Gift Cards were not, as cash would have been subject to the 3%.

not quite true... the Aussie's have been trading cash for years, see

Aussie Maths Trade

but we (the America's) have always been more conservative since Aldie as far as I know never (maybe he was never asked?) ruled either way.

At least from reading their wiki for it I don't see any mention of treating receiving cash as a sale... hopefully indigopotter, Matt or Aldie let them know....
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indigopotter wrote:
Octavian answered that in an earlier thread, so I'm quoting him here:

from https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/20604753#20604753

ahh, that's not really an "earlier thread"... that's an article buried in a *discussion* thread for a specific math trade... most of us probably have never seen it, even if they were in that MT (I don't follow discussion threads any longer even when I'm in a MT)

fwiw I see the subject for this thread was changed with more info... but not in a way that makes it seem authoritative imho I still suggest adding the bold part below or something to make it seem official. I was also going to suggest pinning this thread but it's already been done

JeffyJeff wrote:
suggestion to any admin... can you change the subject of this thread to something like...

Cash Value Trades in Math Trades are now subject to BGG Sales Commision

so it's clear this thread wasn't just another inquiry about cash in MT's which is what I thought it was going to be
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JeffyJeff wrote:

not quite true... the Aussie's have been trading cash for years, see

Aussie Maths Trade

but we (the America's) have always been more conservative since Aldie as far as I know never (maybe he was never asked?) ruled either way.

At least from reading their wiki for it I don't see any mention of treating receiving cash as a sale... hopefully indigopotter, Matt or Aldie let them know....


It is noted under the "Trading Cash" heading

Aussie Maths Trade wrote:
Note that BGG now requires those receiving cash to go through the BGG Marketplace and pay BGG a 3% commission, see Cash Value Trades in Math Trades (and how to make a geek market listing for them)
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U.K. and European Math Trades always had a high cash trade content. It generally proved very popular and seemed to grease the wheels of trading by allowing many traders to accept cash when the games on offer may have not ticked the right boxes. However, it did seem an anomaly that we could avoid the 3% commission normally due on a direct sale. I was as guilty as the next man having traded games for cash at least a dozen times.

The December U.K. Math Trade is ongoing and the consensus seems to be that we will endeavour to ensure all cash trades are subject to the new rulings, but I have asked Indigipotter for a little leeway as very few participants actually saw the new guidelines before jumping into the MT in it's entirety.

Conclusion being that notice is accepted and will be acted upon, but we do wish it had been made more obvious and transparent in the first place.

Admje14 wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
You would have to ask the specific MT moderator that question, as it is up to them. They run it, they set the rules.

Admje14 wrote:
Does this mean that cash is now allowed to be involved in a math trade instead of just gift cards?


Not true. Previously, cash was banned by BGG but Gift Cards were not, as cash would have been subject to the 3%. Now that Gift Cards are subject to the 3%, it makes me wonder if BGG has lifted the across the board ban on cash in math trades. If so, then your statement will be correct going forward.
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check the "history" on that wiki page... username initials are JJ
XB_XB wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
not quite true... the Aussie's have been trading cash for years, see

Aussie Maths Trade

but we (the America's) have always been more conservative since Aldie as far as I know never (maybe he was never asked?) ruled either way.

At least from reading their wiki for it I don't see any mention of treating receiving cash as a sale... hopefully indigopotter, Matt or Aldie let them know....
It is noted under the "Trading Cash" heading

Aussie Maths Trade wrote:
Note that BGG now requires those receiving cash to go through the BGG Marketplace and pay BGG a 3% commission, see Cash Value Trades in Math Trades (and how to make a geek market listing for them)
 
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It seems like there should be a better way to disseminate this information so people don't have to stumble upon it by chance. A mass GM would send it to a lot of people that don't participate in math trades, but that might be the only way to catch everyone (assuming everyone who participates in math trades reads their GM). To avoid that, maybe post the new rules in the math trade announcements thread?
 
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mpb2000 wrote:
It seems like there should be a better way to disseminate this information so people don't have to stumble upon it by chance. A mass GM would send it to a lot of people that don't participate in math trades, but that might be the only way to catch everyone (assuming everyone who participates in math trades reads their GM). To avoid that, maybe post the new rules in the math trade announcements thread?

there are lots of places to still put it... like math trades (which indigopotter already edited this morning ), and I plan to also put it on the home page of the OLWLG
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I don't mind the commission too much, but this is rather inelegant. The "buyer" doesn't "buy" the game that the "seller" "sells" in the math trade.

The person sending the money most likely gets another game than the one that the person sending the game ships. The OCD trait in me wants to list the sale as the respective game that was sent out, so the pricing data is relevant for the price history as well, but the buyer might want to not say that they "bought" this game. So you're forced to use generic items.

Also, I wonder how ratings for these kinds of Marketplace offers should be handled. Of course, the person who sends out the money can expect a positive rating once the money arrives, but what about the person sending out the game? Can they expect a positive rating for it, and on what basis?

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A skinned math nerd wrote:
I don't mind the commission too much, but this is rather inelegant. The "buyer" doesn't "buy" the game that the "seller" "sells" in the math trade.

inelegant? makes sense to me... person who chooses to put cash on their want list is essentially "selling" their game... when I sell through BGG marketplace I as seller pay the commission not any else
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