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enoon wrote:
So far it all looks a little money-grubbing to me over a trivial amount, whilst not respecting our principles and your own marketplace policy.

I don't see any reason to be skeptical of Octavian's explanation. The simplest solution is likely to be the best here. People already get plenty confused about math trades as they are, and adding complications to policies generally reduces compliance and increases overhead.

Furthermore, there's no particular reason why math trade commissions need to have exactly the same rate as marketplace commissions. There's nothing magical about those numbers. (Or am I missing some critical injustices? Are the downtrodden math trade masses being crushed yet again beneath the cruel boots of the marketplace-loving administrative tyrants?)
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tumorous wrote:
The simplest solution is likely to be the best here.
Absolutely. I find my method to have the virtue of simplicity (for me) as well as the important attributes of accuracy, transparency and auditability. Some folks might prefer an even more simplistic solution - and they can of course use that solution without any disruption in the force.
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tumorous wrote:
enoon wrote:
So far it all looks a little money-grubbing to me over a trivial amount, whilst not respecting our principles and your own marketplace policy.

I don't see any reason to be skeptical of Octavian's explanation. The simplest solution is likely to be the best here.
The simplest solution would be no commission. Or am I missing something?
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A skinned math nerd wrote:
tumorous wrote:
enoon wrote:
So far it all looks a little money-grubbing to me over a trivial amount, whilst not respecting our principles and your own marketplace policy.

I don't see any reason to be skeptical of Octavian's explanation. The simplest solution is likely to be the best here.
The simplest solution would be no commission. Or am I missing something?
Well, it's not about the money (according to BGG themselves), so I guess you must be missing something. Probably something about treating "sales" in a MT exactly the same as sales in the marketplace. Oh wait - they aren't treated the same, so that can't be it either. Nope, no idea then.
 
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At midnight we shall sneak aboard the USSBGG and dump all the pallets of board games into the sea. This shall show bad King Octavian that the people will not bend in the face of tyrany!
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I think we should ban all Maths Trades while we wait for our representatives to work out what the heck is going on.
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sirgalin wrote:
At midnight we shall sneak aboard the USSBGG and dump all the pallets of board games into the sea. This shall show bad King Octavian that the people will not bend in the face of tyrany!
But ... but ... BUT ... that way leads to madness and revolution!
 
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enoon wrote:
sirgalin wrote:
At midnight we shall sneak aboard the USSBGG and dump all the pallets of board games into the sea. This shall show bad King Octavian that the people will not bend in the face of tyrany!
But ... but ... BUT ... that way leads to madness and revolution!


But think of all the great musicals and Ken Burns documentaries they'll make about us!
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"These are volatile times, your Highness. The American Revolution lost
your father the Colonies, the French Revolution murdered brave King
Louis and there are tremendous rumblings in Prussia, although that
might have something to do with the sausages. The whole world cries
out, "Peace, Freedom, and a few less fat bastards eating all the pie."
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enoon wrote:
tumorous wrote:
The simplest solution is likely to be the best here.
Absolutely. I find my method to have the virtue of simplicity (for me) as well as the important attributes of accuracy, transparency and auditability. Some folks might prefer an even more simplistic solution - and they can of course use that solution without any disruption in the force.

Sure, absolutely!!
I somehow assumed that deducting the postage oneself isn't tolerated, apparently that was wrong, so yes, I did over-engineere that a bit. I will follow your suggestion in the next MTs.
See my suggestion as a theoretical alternative to a highly practical solution!

(I enjoy thinking of mathematical solutions for BGG/OLWLG "problems"(or sometimes non-problems). Remember that other recent idea if mine....)
 
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The Market listing for a cash value item accepted in a Math Trade MUST be for the FULL value of the cash being received. You are essentially selling and offering Free Shipping.

If you do not agree to these terms then do not trade for cash value items.

If you are found to be circumventing these terms your account will be restricted from any future transactions



I hope that I have made the policy clear. If there are any questions please geekmail me directly as I am not subscribed to this thread.

Thanks!

-MMM

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Well, that's one way to stifle discussion - with the threat of the ban hammer.
Octavian wrote:
I am not subscribed to this thread.
If you were you'd have been able to see the very reasonable and reasoned discussion on the matter. I would like to think we all would like to see the discussion on this matter carried out in an open and transparent manner, not in private in geekmails.

Are we entitled NOT to offer free shipping in maths trades? It is not the case that free shipping is always offered in the European Maths trade.

It is also not the case that free shipping is compulsory even in the UK MT the rules for which say "It is assumed that the sender will cover the cost of shipping using a method of their choice (MyHermes, Collect+, Royal Mail etc) unless explicitly stated otherwise."

Are BGG now dictating the rules for MTs?
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Still not subscribed, but caught your response after correcting a typo in my message above...

Quote:
Are we entitled NOT to offer free shipping in maths trades?


Do you usually extract your shipping costs from the person sending you an item?

If you want to recoup shipping costs you do it from the person you are shipping to. Not the person who is sending you something.

I think that should be obvious.

-MMM
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Octavian wrote:
Still not subscribed, but caught your response after correcting a typo in my message above...

Quote:
Are we entitled NOT to offer free shipping in maths trades?


Do you usually extract your shipping costs from the person sending you an item?

If you want to recoup shipping costs you do it from the person you are shipping to. Not the person who is sending you something.

I think that should be obvious.

-MMM


I recoup my shipping costs from the person sending me money.
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And if you aren't receiving money and are not offering free shipping...you require the person shipping a game to you to pay for your shipping to the person you send to?

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Octavian wrote:
Still not subscribed
Oh, well you'll miss a lot of informed discussion.

BTW: we ARE entitled not to offer free shipping by the result of e.g. the UK MT, so I guess that's what I'll be doing then. As \i wrote, it's already the case that shipping is not always (completely) free in the European MT.

So it IS about the money then ...
 
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Octavian wrote:
And if you aren't receiving money and are not offering free shipping...you require the person shipping a game to you to pay for your shipping to the person you send to
I recoup my shipping costs from the person sending me money - just like if I were to send it to his friend or her brother ... if I'm not receiving money I recoup my shipping costs by valuing the item I receive at a figure less the cost of shipping let item I send. I'd have thought that was obvious.
 
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Great - then do the same for cash value items. Factor in any shipping costs to the value. You do not deduct your costs whenever you see fit.

It's about everyone following the same rules. If you don't want to follow the rules then don't play. If you play but refuse to follow the rules that everyone else does then you will be prevented from playing further.

Thanks!
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Octavian wrote:
Great - then do the same for cash value items. Factor in any shipping costs to the value. You do not deduct your costs whenever you see fit.

It's about everyone following the same rules. If you don't want to follow the rules then don't play. If you play and still don't follow the rules then you will be prevented from playing further.

Thanks!


BTW: as I wrote it's already the case that shipping is not always (completely) free in the European MT. Are you saying that is no longer permitted?
 
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I'm saying if you accept a cash value item then you make a Market listing for that full value.

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Octavian wrote:
If you play but refuse to follow the rules that everyone else does then you will be prevented from playing further.
The rules are arbitrary and don't make sense to a lot of people from at least two continents who have put some thought into the matter, but then we don't wield the ban hammer.

What a pity an open and transparent discussion couldn't have preceded the decision - it's never easy to row back from a decision after it's been made, even in the face of compelling arguments. I guess we just have to suck it up. It tastes unpleasant, but there we are.
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Well, in that case my suggestion might be relevant again...
 
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enoon wrote:
What a pity an open and transparent discussion couldn't have preceded the decision - it's never easy to row back from a decision after it's been made, even in the face of compelling arguments.


What this fails to take into account is that BGG isn't run by the people who are able - if they wish to - use this site for free (i.e. us). For us to assume that we have any right to dictate (or even have a say in) the policies of the site - particularly, but not restricted to, those of us who never choose to support the site with donations - would indicate an entirely undeserved sense of entitlement.

enoon wrote:
I guess we just have to suck it up. It tastes unpleasant, but there we are.


Yeah, that's the way the world works. If we don't like it, our alternative is to not use this site.

FWIW, I am not at all shocked by this. When GCs and cash first started appearing in math trades, I was surprised that we weren't asked to desist immediately. It's always struck me as a way of, effectively, circumventing the BGG Marketplace (just MHO)...
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Jack, everybody posting here was in agreement that commission should be paid for these kind of exchanges. Only the way how this was to be handled, the system of generating commission by some workaround which was not intended for this kind of exchanges in mind and thus has several drawbacks concerning them, was criticised. There's still ample room for improvement.
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anglotiger wrote:
When GCs and cash first started appearing in math trades, I was surprised that we weren't asked to desist immediately. It's always struck me as a way of, effectively, circumventing the BGG Marketplace (just MHO)...


Me too. I'm surprised that it didn't happen sooner.

I think we'll just have to adjust to including it in our mental calculations. So, I think my physical game is worth roughly $40 in trade value, but will cost $10 to ship - then I'll be looking for $50 Gift Cards.

It would be kinda funny if we started seeing GC offerings that included the calculated commission amount.
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