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puffinslayer wrote:
It would be kinda funny if we started seeing GC offerings that included the calculated commission amount.


a) Why bother with 'gift cards' at all now? Just offer (paypal) cash. That figleaf is no longer necessary.
b) it's already happened in the UK MT that some offers were for £x + commission as a point of differentiation.
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enoon wrote:
indigopotter wrote:
Octavian wrote:
For sake of simplicity and transparency I think it would be best to list the cost as the full value of the amount being received. In this example the commission difference is $0.33 - if that amount is a deal breaker for someone then don't trade for GC/cash.


from https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/20604753#20604753

(3% of 5.28 is 0.16)


Is that a deal breaker for BGG then? It's my 0.16, not yours.

So far it all looks a little money-grubbing to me over a trivial amount, whilst not respecting our principles and your own marketplace policy. .

I know you are trying to hold the party line, but it's not tenable.



Yeah, the more I looked into this the more eye-rolly I get. I get the thinking behind the 3% in the marketplace ... you're actively using BGG as a means to sell your game.

Then the whole geeklist auction craze started ... and it didn't take long for the 3% to get tacked in there too ... and largely I understand that as well. You're using the geeklist system.

I'll probable do less and less Math Trading now, and I rarely added GC's (and don't remember actually even trading them), because the rules are just getting too confusing for me.
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sigtaulefty wrote:


Yeah, the more I looked into this the more eye-rolly I get. I get the thinking behind the 3% in the marketplace ... you're actively using BGG as a means to sell your game.

Then the whole geeklist auction craze started ... and it didn't take long for the 3% to get tacked in there too ... and largely I understand that as well. You're using the geeklist system.

I'll probable do less and less Math Trading now, and I rarely added GC's (and don't remember actually even trading them), because the rules are just getting too confusing for me.


Just so everyone is clear, the commission requirement is a part of the Terms of Service of the site which everyone agrees to when making an account. Here is the relevant section:

Quote:
D. You shall not use the Website for any commercial purposes without the prior written authorization of Geekdo. Prohibited commercial uses include without limitation any of the following actions taken without Geekdo's express written approval: (i) sale of access to the Website or its related services, such as any website extensions; (ii) use of the Website or its related services, such as any website extensions, for the primary purpose of gaining advertising or subscription revenue; (iii) the sale of advertising, on the Geekdo website or any third-party website, targeted to the content of specific User Submissions or Geekdo content; and (iv) any use of the Website that Geekdo finds, in its sole discretion, to use Geekdo's resources or User Submissions with the effect of competing with or displacing the market for Geekdo, Geekdo content, or its User Submissions. Prohibited commercial uses do not include the sale of products such as board games, role-playing games, and video games, through the Marketplace or GeekList functionality, so long as you pay a three percent commission to Geekdo on the gross amount of each such sale generated via the Website. Geekdo reserves the right to terminate any such sales if they are deemed to be "spam" or fraudulent in Geekdo's sole discretion.


Selling in the Market and through Geeklists is allowed by the Terms of Service provided the sellers pay commission on sales. Any other commercial activity facilitated by the site without permission is prohibited by the Terms of Service. These are the rules and we expect everyone to play by them.
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Octavian wrote:
sigtaulefty wrote:


Yeah, the more I looked into this the more eye-rolly I get. I get the thinking behind the 3% in the marketplace ... you're actively using BGG as a means to sell your game.

Then the whole geeklist auction craze started ... and it didn't take long for the 3% to get tacked in there too ... and largely I understand that as well. You're using the geeklist system.

I'll probable do less and less Math Trading now, and I rarely added GC's (and don't remember actually even trading them), because the rules are just getting too confusing for me.


Just so everyone is clear, the commission requirement is a part of the Terms of Service of the site which everyone agrees to when making an account. Here is the relevant section:

Quote:
D. You shall not use the Website for any commercial purposes without the prior written authorization of Geekdo. Prohibited commercial uses include without limitation any of the following actions taken without Geekdo's express written approval: (i) sale of access to the Website or its related services, such as any website extensions; (ii) use of the Website or its related services, such as any website extensions, for the primary purpose of gaining advertising or subscription revenue; (iii) the sale of advertising, on the Geekdo website or any third-party website, targeted to the content of specific User Submissions or Geekdo content; and (iv) any use of the Website that Geekdo finds, in its sole discretion, to use Geekdo's resources or User Submissions with the effect of competing with or displacing the market for Geekdo, Geekdo content, or its User Submissions. Prohibited commercial uses do not include the sale of products such as board games, role-playing games, and video games, through the Marketplace or GeekList functionality, so long as you pay a three percent commission to Geekdo on the gross amount of each such sale generated via the Website. Geekdo reserves the right to terminate any such sales if they are deemed to be "spam" or fraudulent in Geekdo's sole discretion.


Selling in the Market and through Geeklists is allowed by the Terms of Service provided the sellers pay commission on sales. Any other commercial activity facilitated by the site without permission is prohibited by the Terms of Service. These are the rules and we expect everyone to play by them.

I interpret this as implying that no cash-equivalent items should be allowed in a "Trade" as that would subject the entire "Trade" to being a "commercial use" in which ALL items would be subject to the three percent commission to Geekdo.

That is, if a "Trade Chain" involves a commercial transaction, how is the rest of the "chain" not also part of the commercial transaction (since the commercial transaction is only possible due to other "trading" transactions)?
 
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Read further above: IIRC it is screamed-out in big red type. There's no further room for discussion*. The receiver of a cash/cash-like item pays 3% commission to BGG on the vale of that item. That's all. The attempt to shoe-horn this new policy into existing policy fails on many counts, but it is nevertheless the new policy.

*Not that there was any to begin with, mind.
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indigopotter wrote:
Any Math Trader who accepts a cash value trade (a numerical amount via gift card, gift certificate, PayPal, actual cash, etc.) is conducting a direct sale through the site and is subject to the associated commission fee (3%) required by the Terms of Service just as with any other sale.


In the Italian math trades thread some users were wondering whether it would be ok to make who sends the money pay the commission fee.

I might have missed it, but I think this wasn't discussed in detail. Could you please give a ruling on this point?

Thank you in advance.
 
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Please see the original post,

Quote:
After the trade, the person receiving the GC/PayPal/cash creates a Geek Market listing, and the person sending the GC/PayPal/cash buys it.


The person receiving the money should make the listing and pay the commission through their account.
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indigopotter wrote:
Please see the original post,

Quote:
After the trade, the person receiving the GC/PayPal/cash creates a Geek Market listing, and the person sending the GC/PayPal/cash buys it.


The person receiving the money should make the listing and pay the commission through their account.

Thank you, it is clear.

I did read it, I preferred to ask since I had the doubt whether the opposite could have been possible.

Money offers seem to increase the success rate of the math trade for all participants, my hypothesis was that having the person offering the money pay the commission might have led to more exchanges, as it would have made it a more hassle-free experience for who received the money.

Never mind and thanks for the clarification.
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Fede__ wrote:
indigopotter wrote:
Please see the original post,

Quote:
After the trade, the person receiving the GC/PayPal/cash creates a Geek Market listing, and the person sending the GC/PayPal/cash buys it.


The person receiving the money should make the listing and pay the commission through their account.

Thank you, it is clear.

I did read it, I preferred to ask since I had the doubt whether the opposite could have been possible.

Money offers seem to increase the success rate of the math trade for all participants, my hypothesis was that having the person offering the money pay the commission might have led to more exchanges, as it would have made it a more hassle-free experience for who received the money.
Never mind and thanks for the clarification.


What you can do is add 3% to your normally offered sum: 5.15$ => receiver keeps 5$. (10.30$, 15.45$ etc.)
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That doesn't make sense. If I trade a game away for $5.15, then I have to pay 3% on $5.15, not on $5. The rules don't make space for the GC sender to stipulate that they're only meaning to give the receiver $5 and BGG $0.15.
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sirgalin wrote:
That doesn't make sense. If I trade a game away for $5.15, then I have to pay 3% on $5.15, not on $5.
True, but the difference is negligible. You'd have to use the factor 1/0.97, which is 1.030927835, so you'd have to add 3.0927835% to the original amount for an exact result.
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I understand and in theory approve this 3% fee.

BUT

I don't like it.

The math trade system is already complex to teach. So I think this extra step will make more difficult adding newbie.
And this is bad both for us as users and for BGG.

Imho it's mandatory find a solution more user friedly for collecting this fee in order to grow the community of math traders.
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A skinned math nerd wrote:
sirgalin wrote:
That doesn't make sense. If I trade a game away for $5.15, then I have to pay 3% on $5.15, not on $5.
True, but the difference is negligible. You'd have to use the factor 1/0.97, which is 1.030927835, so you'd have to add 3.0927835% to the original amount for an exact result.

Mathematically you are of course right (Quita an embarrassing basics mistake of mine). However, as Karsten points out, it doesn't matter that much. So make it 5.16$ and it will work as intended(;
 
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My apologize for the late reply, but with haven't had any national math trade starting in Italy since November, so the thing has been noted only a couple of days ago, and just now I had the time to read all this thread. All this reading left me with a replay and then a question, besides the other point risen by the other Italians.

First a replay to Enoon.
enoon wrote:
Any analogy to Auctions breaks down as BGG are classifying cash receipts in MTs as 'direct sales'. I have no problem with that. Moreover I don't recall seeing (m)any European auction items which offer free shipping. [...]

That's due to the fact that the person running the European Math Trade allowed people doing that instead of saying that you must offer free shipping within Europe. The result is that the number of offers in Eurpean Math Trade has halved.

Then my question. I case of a No Ship Math Trade, since all the person will concentrate in the exchange place, would it be possible to do a cumulative payment?
 
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It would be the same as doing a no-ship auction - each person receiving money should make a marketplace listing and pay the commission through their account, as noted above. When we see someone has had transactions and we don't see corresponding marketplace transactions/commission payments, we ask about it. We want to keep it straight-forward, in case there was ever a question.
 
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indigopotter wrote:
It would be the same as doing a no-ship auction - each person receiving money should make a marketplace listing and pay the commission through their account, as noted above. When we see someone has had transactions and we don't see corresponding marketplace transactions/commission payments, we ask about it. We want to keep it straight-forward, in case there was ever a question.

In this way you will drive mad people, so cutting down the people offering money in math trade and reducing the relative incomes.
Personally I will never be involved in such a payment since I will never select a money offer in a MT, but I know that many will give it up, so reducing the quantity of exchanges in Italian Math Traded by a great amount, probably near the 50%.
 
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indigopotter wrote:
It would be the same as doing a no-ship auction - each person receiving money should make a marketplace listing and pay the commission through their account, as noted above. When we see someone has had transactions and we don't see corresponding marketplace transactions/commission payments, we ask about it. We want to keep it straight-forward, in case there was ever a question.


I hope you're looking forward to the next year of your admin life where every few weeks someone new is directed to this thread and you get to fight the same "BUT WHY?" battles all over again. It's like you and Octavian get to parent 200k 4-year-olds. There should be a special VIP lounge in heaven for BGG mods.
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Would it be possible having a single payment to bgg through marketplace for the overall amount of money received? In this case we are covering the 3%requirements and we save people from the marketplace. Personally I will stop asking for money. I have no willingness whatsoever in creating a marketplace entry for the mts. It is not the money but the procedure.
 
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enricodonaggio wrote:
Would it be possible having a single payment to bgg through marketplace for the overall amount of money received?


If you receive a $20, $25, and $30 payment, you could make one marketplace listing for $75. It would be the same as if you had an auction, and did one bulk listing at the end.

https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/GeekList_auction#toc4
 
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JeffyJeff wrote:
I assume...

1. geek gold is not a cash equiv instrument?

2. receiving cash for GG I send out is exempt (unless folks who sell GG elsewhere on the site are also going to be subject to the commish)?

3. receiving a GC for a GC is also exempt?


Where these questions ever answered?
Does this apply to Games for Geekgold?
 
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FaceBreaker wrote:
Does this apply to Games for Geekgold?

I would think you'd have to pay the 3% in GG if it did!
 
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indigopotter wrote:
enricodonaggio wrote:
Would it be possible having a single payment to bgg through marketplace for the overall amount of money received?


If you receive a $20, $25, and $30 payment, you could make one marketplace listing for $75. It would be the same as if you had an auction, and did one bulk listing at the end.


Along the same lines: I'm running a no-ship math trade in Portland. We won't have a ton of Gift Cards or Cash. To make things easy and keep users free from confusion, my plan is to just cover the commission for the entire trade myself. Would that break any rules?
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peteyboy100 wrote:
indigopotter wrote:
enricodonaggio wrote:
Would it be possible having a single payment to bgg through marketplace for the overall amount of money received?


If you receive a $20, $25, and $30 payment, you could make one marketplace listing for $75. It would be the same as if you had an auction, and did one bulk listing at the end.


Along the same lines: I'm running a no-ship math trade in Portland. We won't have a ton of Gift Cards or Cash. To make things easy and keep users free from confusion, my plan is to just cover the commission for the entire trade myself. Would that break any rules?


Each user account should make their own transactions, so it's straight-forward. If we see that someone has received gift cards/PayPal, and there are no marketplace transactions in their account, we would question it. Much like the reasoning behind the no deductions discussion above, we want A (amount received) to match B (amount of transactions in account). It would be unwieldy to try untangle a joint transaction in another account, and what if someone deleted their account and took my transactions with them?
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indigopotter wrote:

Each user account should make their own transactions, so it's straight-forward. If we see that someone has received gift cards/PayPal, and there are no marketplace transactions in their account, we would question it. Much like the reasoning behind the no deductions discussion above, we want A (amount received) to match B (amount of transactions in account). It would be unwieldy to try untangle a joint transaction in another account, and what if someone deleted their account and took my transactions with them?


Also Petey, to help out with the transactions, since you're using abecorn, anyone who receives money automatically gets sent a geek notification and a link to the BGG market with their information already filled out.

We've got the code to actually complete the BGG marketplace purchase and have it auto send an "accept this purchase" geekmail...but it requires an appkey property change from BGG's end.
 
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That sounds pretty spiffy.
 
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