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Subject: [WIP] Mini Rogue - 2016 9-card Nanogame PnP Design Contest rss

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Paolo Di Stefano
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This is Mountain Gold Games' entry for the 2016 9-Card Nanogame PnP Design Contest:


Players: 1
Game Time: 30 minutes
Ages: 8+

Current phase: CONTEST READY

Overview
Mini Rogue is a 9-card game in which a single player delves into a deep dungeon to get the famous ruby called The Og's Blood on the bottom floor.

The player must choose how to spend their resources in order to be powerful enough to confront ever difficult monsters. Random events and encounters make every play-through a unique experience.

Components
9 cards
4 six-sided dice
8 tokens (any color)

Categories
We'd like the game to be entered in:
- Best Solitaire Game
- Best Thematic Game
- Best Artwork
- Best New Designer
- Best Written Rules

Links
BGG Game Page
Mini Rogue - Print and Play v1.2

Designers
Paolo Di Stefano
Gabriel Gendron

Artist
Gabriel Gendron

Card Art


Edits:
- Updated the download link
- Added the link to the BGG game page
- Updated the card front and card back images
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Douglas Rees
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Sounds interesting, I've subscribed

Looking forward to seeing it
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Paolo Di Stefano
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Dear playtesters to be!

We've added a form on our website to let you easily enter playtesting for Mini Rogue

Toodles!
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Joseph Propati
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pdistefano wrote:
Dear playtesters to be!

We've added a form on our website to let you easily enter playtesting for Mini Rogue

Toodles!


Are you entering a game for this contest or for your personal website?

Please remember this is a game created for this contest and should be readily available to anyone at anytime and not just through a formal request process.

I need to reiterate that all files must be linked to this WIP thread and not just to a separate website. They must be openly available to any BBG user and not just contest participants.

Thanks
Joe
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Gabriel Gendron
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Hi Joe,
First of all thanks for running this awesome contest. We are still in idea phase/private playtesting. Once we get the initial feedback from our playtesters we'll make the PnP files and rules available to all at BGG, as per the contest rules. No worries on that part.

Thanks again and hope this clears things up!

Cheers!
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Kai Scheuer
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So .. the crowd here is not part of your gametesters?
Would you not like to get feedback from more than just "your" gametesters?



Kind regards,
Kai
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Charles Ward
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I know what you mean Kai but when you look at it in a different way... its a kind thing to do. Playtesting is so valuable you really want to present something that you have tested yourself, with friends, a few times before putting it out there. And putting it out there is always a call for feedback. All Gabriel is doing is making our experience as good as it can be.
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Gabriel Gendron
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schattentanz wrote:
So .. the crowd here is not part of your gametesters?
Would you not like to get feedback from more than just "your" gametesters?

Kind regards,
Kai


Hi Kai,
Yes, everyone will take part in the playtesting and files will be made public on BGG. I just want to give the BGG community a first working and somewhat valuable prototype. There's no point in giving unproven ideas and broken games as PnP for people to try out in my humble opinion.

I'll echo Charles' words too.
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Joseph Propati
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Hello Paolo,

You need to post links for the rules and cards ASAP or I need to put this game in the idea phase!

This is a contest for PnP games and as such you need to make the game available for people here to print and play test it otherwise it's just a idea!

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Paolo Di Stefano
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So the files have finally been added!

Rules v1.0
Game Components v1.0

Enjoy!
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Jim Parkin
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I just downloaded the files. The artwork is fantastic. Some of my favorite I've seen on BGG. Seriously.
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Paolo Di Stefano
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Annowme wrote:
I just downloaded the files. The artwork is fantastic. Some of my favorite I've seen on BGG. Seriously.


Thank you so much, Jim! I'll make sure to let Gabriel know, he's the illustrator / graphic designer.
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todd sanders
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yes i second that about the art. printing this up tomorrow to read through
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Gabriel Gendron
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Such an honor coming from you Todd. I've been following your games and art since forever. Your redesign of Citadel of Blood, as well as Land of Enin have been inspirational for this game in some ways! Cheers!
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Gabriel Gendron
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Annowme wrote:
I just downloaded the files. The artwork is fantastic. Some of my favorite I've seen on BGG. Seriously.


Thanks Jim! Such praise, I'm blushing!
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todd sanders
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gab4tac wrote:
Such an honor coming from you Todd. I've been following your games and art since forever. Your redesign of Citadel of Blood, as well as Land of Enin have been inspirational for this game in some ways! Cheers!


I had thought there were some matchups there. thanks for looking at my own work.

printed and will read tonight
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todd sanders
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some initial comments (I haven't played yet but I've read the rules)

I was a little confused by what is a dungeon, area, level and room.

In looking at the Dungeon card:

Dungeon is the whole game
Area is a group of floors (i.e. Level) in a dungeon
Each Area has Levels and each of these levels are then played/tracked through the Room cards.

(I think under the first bullet point in The Dungeon, the word should be 'further' rather than 'farther')


So this set of room cards will be shuffled and laid out 20 times yes?

When you encounter 2 rooms in a column you can decide which to pick?

Turn Sequence is a repeat of point 5 of Set-up but it adds the idea of a new column the Boss is placed in. You may want to rework this repeat slightly.

The rest of everything seems very straightforward and logical. I like the die unlocking which keeps pace with the difficulty and forces you to encounter the monsters, not just rest all the time.

For a little more variety I might suggest when you encounter the Monster and Trap cards these might be double sided with another set of options on the reverse. maybe when you first encounter the room you roll a die and 1-3 use the front side of the card, 4-6 use the second side. This gives the player a little more variety in encounters and helps the narrative. So Area 1 is either Undead Soldiers or Giant Rats.

oohh or perhaps it is 1-5 for the front side of the card and a 6 is the back side and those monsters have magical abilities and an extra difficulty to plan for.

I know you place cards face down in the rooms but there are not that many of them and you know you will be encountering monsters in the game.

You could do the same with the Trap card and have Fountains on the other side since a lot of D&D games have you finding a fountain to drink from that does something good or bad.

such is my 2 gold pieces of commentary. take from it what you will.
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Joseph Propati
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Going though the rules and getting ready to play but have some questions.

I agree with Todd that you mention put token on Dungeon level yet you call them areas 1 on the card, this is confusing.

You mention under SETUP to place [5] token on the character card, [1] token on the Dungeon level 1 and [1] token next to the monster HP to be used when fighting monsters. Then on line 4 you say "Set aside the two remaining tokens" yet by my count I only have 1 token left to set aside! Am I missing something here?

One annoying issues is you mention to start the armor on 0 yet there is no 0 on the card. If you have the space you should put a 0 under the 1 so you have an actual space to place the token and not have it sitting out side the card! I know you want to keep the symmetry of the card bottom but placing token out side the card is bad form in my book. This also goes for the monsters HP, why not just add a 0 and place the HP token on it to start?

Once I start I'll get back to you with my comments!

Game looks great by the way!
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Gabriel Gendron
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dumarest123 wrote:
I was a little confused by what is a dungeon, area, level and room.

In looking at the Dungeon card:

Dungeon is the whole game
Area is a group of floors (i.e. Level) in a dungeon
Each Area has Levels and each of these levels are then played/tracked through the Room cards.

(I think under the first bullet point in The Dungeon, the word should be 'further' rather than 'farther')

So this set of room cards will be shuffled and laid out 20 times yes?


Yes. You understood that right.

Quote:
When you encounter 2 rooms in a column you can decide which to pick?


Yes.

Quote:
Turn Sequence is a repeat of point 5 of Set-up but it adds the idea of a new column the Boss is placed in. You may want to rework this repeat slightly.


Indeed. No need to include those steps in the set-up if they're part of the actual turn sequence.

Quote:
The rest of everything seems very straightforward and logical. I like the die unlocking which keeps pace with the difficulty and forces you to encounter the monsters, not just rest all the time.


Thanks, I like the leveling up mechanics myself. Resting is important but so is earning XP so you can deal with monsters!

Quote:
For a little more variety I might suggest when you encounter the Monster and Trap cards these might be double sided with another set of options on the reverse. maybe when you first encounter the room you roll a die and 1-3 use the front side of the card, 4-6 use the second side. This gives the player a little more variety in encounters and helps the narrative. So Area 1 is either Undead Soldiers or Giant Rats.

oohh or perhaps it is 1-5 for the front side of the card and a 6 is the back side and those monsters have magical abilities and an extra difficulty to plan for.

I know you place cards face down in the rooms but there are not that many of them and you know you will be encountering monsters in the game.

You could do the same with the Trap card and have Fountains on the other side since a lot of D&D games have you finding a fountain to drink from that does something good or bad.

such is my 2 gold pieces of commentary. take from it what you will.


Good advice and we'll be incorporating some of these changes after the contest for certain. Thanks for checking it out!

Can't wait to get your opinion after playing the game!
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Jim Parkin
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gab4tac wrote:
...we'll be incorporating some of these changes after the contest for certain.


I know it's early yet, but do you have a time table for this?
 
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Gabriel Gendron
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kingspud wrote:
Going though the rules and getting ready to play but have some questions.

I agree with Todd that you mention put token on Dungeon level yet you call them areas 1 on the card, this is confusing.


The 5 Areas are the collection of different Levels. For example, each turn takes place in a Level (a floor) that's comprised of Room cards. Each time you face a Monster you look at what Area you are in to determine wich one you'll face. When you change Areas, the Monsters/Boss you face get stronger.


Quote:
You mention under SETUP to place [5] token on the character card, [1] token on the Dungeon level 1 and [1] token next to the monster HP to be used when fighting monsters. Then on line 4 you say "Set aside the two remaining tokens" yet by my count I only have 1 token left to set aside! Am I missing something here?


It's a typo, it should read: "Place 4 tokens on the character card".
- 2 Tokens for the Dungeon card
- 1 Token for Gold
- 1 Token for Food
- 1 Token for HP
- 1 Token for Armor (set aside at the start)
- 2 Tokens for Rare Items (set aside at the start)

Quote:
One annoying issues is you mention to start the armor on 0 yet there is no 0 on the card. If you have the space you should put a 0 under the 1 so you have an actual space to place the token and not have it sitting out side the card! I know you want to keep the symmetry of the card bottom but placing token out side the card is bad form in my book. This also goes for the monsters HP, why not just add a 0 and place the HP token on it to start?


Thanks, we debated this but didn't have time to rethink the layout in time for the contest deadline. I feel you're right on this issue, we'll change it for the next release!

Quote:
Once I start I'll get back to you with my comments!

Game looks great by the way!


Thanks, we put a lot of time and effort into the art/design. I'll get even more polish with subsequent releases!

Can't wait to get your feedback on the game.
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Jim,
we want to finish development work and release a final PNP early next week. Clean up the rules also.

Then we'll move on into our "grand vision" of a new version of the game: an expanded version with 16 cards, more variety, more strategic decisions, and a shorter playtime for early June.
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gab4tac wrote:
Jim,
we want to finish development work and release a final PNP early next week. Clean up the rules also.

Then we'll move on into our "grand vision" of a new version of the game: an expanded version with 16 cards, more variety, more strategic decisions, and a shorter playtime for early June.


Gabriel, that's excellent. I look forward to printing this contest version and giving it a whirl, but especially to your refined version come June. I've really been digging the micro-game trend in these contests recently. The challenge of the 9-card design is intense, I have no doubt. I'm glad to see the effort taken to meet the restrictions of the contest, but also the desire to continue to refine the game design and give it the (little) extra room it needs to mature. 9 cards --> 16 cards is still a rich, compact, micro-game.

I wish you guys the best as you continue the project in both of its phases.
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I played two games yesterday on Normal difficulty:

1. M5-2-4-0
2. B20-5-4-2

In the first game, I just didn't get any good momentum going as I ran out of food quickly and had to sacrifice better Merchant options, which led to my early demise at the hands of a monster only a quarter of the way into the dungeon. The tension that comes from the ramping-up is gripping!

In the second game, I made it all the way to the end-game boss, but I was severely wounded from a monster battle in room three of the same level. I was saving two fireball wands for Og's Remains, but I had to spend them both to dispatch the aforementioned monster. By the time I got to the end of the level... it was over quickly. Eight hit points left, Og's Remains hits for twelve... death.



So fun! I really enjoy this one. If it were a tad shorter (which I know you've said it will be in your polished June release) I would take it to work with me this week and play it on my breaks.

Rules Questions:

1. What is the significance of Rank 5, just prestige for getting there? The way I read the rules, the first time you hit six experience you unlock your second attack die, earning Rank 2. When you continue to twelve experience you reach Rank 3 and unlock your third die... Thus when I reach eighteen experience I get Rank 4 and my final attack die... so twenty-four experience for Rank 5 has no practical benefit to my game. As a result, once I hit Rank 4 I stopped prioritizing experience since I had all of my dice (not that it helped when I rolled three "1"s and a "3" against that monster in level 20...). My assumption, if I'm reading the rules correctly, is that while Rank 5 has no tangible benefit for the gameplay, it is a mark of completion for end-game scoring, so if the player were to achieve W20-20-5-6, it is inherently better than W20-20-4-6...

2. Does starvation occur when you hit "0" food (going from "1" to "0") or when you attempt to delve at "0" (going from "0" to... "0")?

3. Is armor just very difficult to obtain? My first six or seven traps I still had "0" armor since I could not just obtain it outside of providential dice rolls, so I skipped the skill check on these traps and went straight to penalties. When I got to "2" armor after eighteen levels I was amazed at the thought of ever gaining more. I simply don't think I'll ever pass many skill checks as a result.

Thanks again for a great game! Are you planning on making a formal game page? I want my logged plays and public praise to go to the right place!
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Gabriel Gendron
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Annowme wrote:
In the first game, I just didn't get any good momentum going as I ran out of food quickly and had to sacrifice better Merchant options, which led to my early demise at the hands of a monster only a quarter of the way into the dungeon. The tension that comes from the ramping-up is gripping!


Thanks, you really have to catch up to the game and make sure you have enough attack dice the deeper you delve!

Quote:
In the second game, I made it all the way to the end-game boss, but I was severely wounded from a monster battle in room three of the same level. I was saving two fireball wands for Og's Remains, but I had to spend them both to dispatch the aforementioned monster. By the time I got to the end of the level... it was over quickly. Eight hit points left, Og's Remains hits for twelve... death.


He hits like a ton of brick and crushes you into oblivion. You can survive at most 1 hit from this boss. Legend says he's more than 3 meters tall and wields two ultra greatswords so this would explain it.

The Og's Blood he carries as a talisman is the remains of his lifeforce. Some kind of dark pact was made and god knows why he still roams aimlessly in his derelict sunken keep. Much remains to be uncovered by your adventurer.

Quote:
So fun! I really enjoy this one. If it were a tad shorter (which I know you've said it will be in your polished June release) I would take it to work with me this week and play it on my breaks.


Thanks again for playing Jim! We really appreciate the time you've put into playing!

The nano version you're playing now could get shortened pretty soon. Stay tuned. We agree it's too long for what it is. 15-20 minutes would be perfect.


Quote:
Rules Questions:

1. What is the significance of Rank 5, just prestige for getting there? The way I read the rules, the first time you hit six experience you unlock your second attack die, earning Rank 2. When you continue to twelve experience you reach Rank 3 and unlock your third die... Thus when I reach eighteen experience I get Rank 4 and my final attack die... so twenty-four experience for Rank 5 has no practical benefit to my game. As a result, once I hit Rank 4 I stopped prioritizing experience since I had all of my dice (not that it helped when I rolled three "1"s and a "3" against that monster in level 20...). My assumption, if I'm reading the rules correctly, is that while Rank 5 has no tangible benefit for the gameplay, it is a mark of completion for end-game scoring, so if the player were to achieve W20-20-5-6, it is inherently better than W20-20-4-6...

This is an error on my part. The XP track stops at 3. Once you unlock the 4th dice XP has no other significance thus far. We'd have to think of something in the rules, maybe give HP instead of XP when you're at max XP.


Quote:
2. Does starvation occur when you hit "0" food (going from "1" to "0") or when you attempt to delve at "0" (going from "0" to... "0")?


Starvation happens when you Delve and have 0 food in your inventory.

Quote:
3. Is armor just very difficult to obtain? My first six or seven traps I still had "0" armor since I could not just obtain it outside of providential dice rolls, so I skipped the skill check on these traps and went straight to penalties. When I got to "2" armor after eighteen levels I was amazed at the thought of ever gaining more. I simply don't think I'll ever pass many skill checks as a result.
Armor is very difficult to obtain, we'll be updating the Merchant card to include purchasing Armor.

Quote:
Thanks again for a great game! Are you planning on making a formal game page? I want my logged plays and public praise to go to the right place!


We'll have a proper BGG page for Mini Rogue set-up this week as well as an updated game! We'll keep everyone posted!
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